lighting canon xl2 lighting?

[dvdguy]

Hey filmmakers!

Was wondering if anybody has some experience owning a Canon xl2 and how strong were the lights (output in watts) when you tried filming anything? What would be the minimum of the output? I dont think there is a max since I think you can just lower the light down in postproduction, right?

Thanks in advance!

 

[PaulGriffith]

I can't answer specifically to an XL2 regarding how much light you'll need, but as with any camera it will vary by situation.

And you can't always lower it in post. If something is so bright that it's blown out (just blurry white pixels) then that's going to be there no matter what. You can't darken it because there's no data there, just bright white. It's best to light as right as possible. if you have to error one way, go a little bright... But not too bright.

 

[directorik]

Was wondering if anybody has some experience owning a Canon xl2 and how strong were the lights (output in watts) when you tried filming anything? What would be the minimum of the output?

I have used the XL2. There is no minimum or maximum watts
for any camera. Each lighting set up will be different for each
project and each scene. And once you have set the lights you
can change out the camera - lighting does not change depending
on the brand or model of camera. In other words there is no
minimum or maximum watts for the XL2 that will be different
for the GL2 or a Panasonic or JVC.

Use what you have. Set up the camera, set up your monitor and
look at the screen. If it looks good to you then you have the right
lighting. If it's too dark, add more light.

I dont think there is a max since I think you can just lower the light down in postproduction, right?

As PaulGriffith said, you can have too much light that cannot be fixed
in post. You really should do everything you can to get the lighting
right while shooting. Do not hope that you can fix it later.

 

[David.rhsc]

Anything that can be "fixed in post" should just be done properly on set in the first place. IMNSHO.

 

[dvdguy]

@Directoric - yeah, I just thought since I read that todays cameras are not that light sensitive anymore that some cameras are just different regarding light output. Some work better under low light conditions etc.

About that monitor - I was thinkin about buying a light meter but since I read that monitors are much more useful for some reason I thought Id go for that. So its basically a light monitor if im not wrong or whats the correct term? Im thinkin of buying it.

AND YEAH, the reason im asking about the output of light (watt) is because there are so many variations, for instance, some use 800 watt lights and some just use 500 watt. So I guess it kinda depends on the lighting conditions which lights youre gonna use (output). Example: interior - living room, afternoon, 800 watts of light since the sun is so bright VS. evening 500 watts when the sun is just about to set. If thats the right approach.

 

[knightly]

I use a 2x500w kit primarily unless I have access to bigger lights. I place them no farther than 10' from the talent... with bigger lights, I can get farther away with fewer hotspots in the lighting.

 

[wheatgrinder]

dvdguy, your kinda confusing the question with the backwards terminology which might be contributing to your concern..

Cameras TAKE IN light, they don't have a light output. We talk about cameras having a certain level of LIGHT SENSITIVITY.

The new cameras seem to be MORE sensitive to light which results in a usable images with lower light levels then there previous generation models.


I think you understand all this, but are just communicating oddly. No worries..


Many cameras come with tools to help with setting exposure. My camera has zebra stripes, which point out on the viewfinder which parts of my image are about to be BLOWN OUT (which = 100% white, no useful color data)

You might find that you have to light the heck out of scene to get all the frame lit, but need to stop down (darken) the exposure to keep from blowing out the whites. Its a push <> pull thing with searching for the right tension between the two.

I seem to be collecting lights, all cheap used craigslist or ebay

So far Im up to..

Smith Victor 500W photo floods (x2)
Smith Victor 600w quarts
1000w (2x 500w) work light on tripod
500w focusable Fresnel
30w pin spot (x2) (i got these new at Guitar Center for $7 each)
A few more scoop clamp lights
One more light duty smith victor scoop.
Two strings of white Christmas lights

I want to add
shoot through umbrellas for the photo floods or some other large soft source, like a soft box...
China ball on a boom. On the last three shoots Iv been on I could totally see these being awesome...

 

[dvdguy]

dvdguy, your kinda confusing the question with the backwards terminology which might be contributing to your concern..

Cameras TAKE IN light, they don't have a light output. We talk about cameras having a certain level of LIGHT SENSITIVITY.

The new cameras seem to be MORE sensitive to light which results in a usable images with lower light levels then there previous generation models.


I think you understand all this, but are just communicating oddly. No worries..


Many cameras come with tools to help with setting exposure. My camera has zebra stripes, which point out on the viewfinder which parts of my image are about to be BLOWN OUT (which = 100% white, no useful color data)

You might find that you have to light the heck out of scene to get all the frame lit, but need to stop down (darken) the exposure to keep from blowing out the whites. Its a push <> pull thing with searching for the right tension between the two.

I seem to be collecting lights, all cheap used craigslist or ebay

So far Im up to..

Smith Victor 500W photo floods (x2)
Smith Victor 600w quarts
1000w (2x 500w) work light on tripod
500w focusable Fresnel
30w pin spot (x2) (i got these new at Guitar Center for $7 each)
A few more scoop clamp lights
One more light duty smith victor scoop.
Two strings of white Christmas lights

I want to add
shoot through umbrellas for the photo floods or some other large soft source, like a soft box...
China ball on a boom. On the last three shoots Iv been on I could totally see these being awesome...

Thats quite a set! I appreciate your thourough reply.

Btw, whats the difference between your Smith Victor 500 W photo flood light and the 500 W work-light (nevermind this question, just realized the word FLOOD lol) ? Dont they kind of have the same function cause they look kind of the same. Not sure tho..

Second, you have no idea how I find lighting confusing sometimes, hence why I talk so much in the Cinematography section. I mean, I already read a book about cinematography and stuff, but I believe practice outweighs theory any day.

Ok, because my head is gonna explode from overthinking this, although its probably simple as pie, why dont you kindly explain to me why do you have lights with different W output? Wouldnt it be easier to have the same Watt output? its because of larger areas right (less hotspots). I probably know all this, but just overthinking.

I know I sound kind of weird, but I guess I just need some rest lol. Im still waiting for an ARRI 650 W tungsten fresnel light.

My set: -homemade TDI spider-lite light with a softbox (http://www.fjwestcott.com/products/product.cfm?itemnum=4893&tbl=products&head=td5)

-3x 500 W worklight (2 with dimmers, one without)
-1x 150 W worklight
-waiting for a focus/flood ARRI fresnel light 650 watt (ordered over ebay for 170 €)
-I need scoup lights but we dont have those here unfortunatelly (but instead of ordering them, im thinkin of making them, though not sure how strong the bulbs have to be)
... well, im thinking about buying 800 W lights, though I believe I need them if I want to shoot further away from my subject than in comparison with a 500 W light where u have to shoot closer due to that INVERSE SQUARE law if im not wrong?

sorry, if im a drag

 

[knightly]

Why dont you kindly explain to me why do you have lights with different W output? Wouldnt it be easier to have the same Watt output? its because of larger areas right (less hotspots).

You can use the inverse square law (ISL) to dim lights and spread them out by moving the light farther away from the subject... but if I'm in a hotel room, and don't have room to move it back, I need a lower wattage fixture or a dimmer... the dimmer (at my budget) will change the color of the light though.

If you have a full kit of 500s, you can't light larger areas or wider frames well... if you have all 1Kw lights, you'll sweat your actors in smaller locations. Larger wattages will allow you to gel/diffuse them down while producing the same light output as smaller wattage lights unaltered.

... well, im thinking about buying 800 W lights, though I believe I need them if I want to shoot further away from my subject than in comparison with a 500 W light where u have to shoot closer due to that INVERSE SQUARE law if im not wrong?

The ISL applies to the lights and the camera, although it seems to me that it has more effect when moving the lights in a given scene than the camera... although it seems to me that the physics of this says moving anything will apply the ISL to the movement. The distance you move them and the wattages you choose depend on the amount of contrast you want in the lighting and how much room you have to light and how wide your frame is. If you're doing an ECU, you can just about use 3 table lamps 1' from the actor as they're going to be out of frame... but a full room establishing shot will want the lights much farther away, therefor higher wattage lights.

 

[dvdguy]

You can use the inverse square law (ISL) to dim lights and spread them out by moving the light farther away from the subject... but if I'm in a hotel room, and don't have room to move it back, I need a lower wattage fixture or a dimmer... the dimmer (at my budget) will change the color of the light though.

If you have a full kit of 500s, you can't light larger areas or wider frames well... if you have all 1Kw lights, you'll sweat your actors in smaller locations. Larger wattages will allow you to gel/diffuse them down while producing the same light output as smaller wattage lights unaltered.



The ISL applies to the lights and the camera, although it seems to me that it has more effect when moving the lights in a given scene than the camera... although it seems to me that the physics of this says moving anything will apply the ISL to the movement. The distance you move them and the wattages you choose depend on the amount of contrast you want in the lighting and how much room you have to light and how wide your frame is. If you're doing an ECU, you can just about use 3 table lamps 1' from the actor as they're going to be out of frame... but a full room establishing shot will want the lights much farther away, therefor higher wattage lights.

Great thorough explanation! with great exampling too. Thanks a million

 

[knightly]

ohh... and "good in low light" means you do Weddings, Documentaries... or are too inexperienced or lazy to light! The camera wants light, if you can possibly give it what it wants, do so! Your images will be much better for it.

Do lighting tests... just you and a subject, figure out the aesthetic you like... figure out what the lights do when you move them around, soften them, color them, raise them, lower them, turn them.

A skater practices skating, a writer practices writing... practice lighting - it's your job! If you have to, start with clamp lights and work lights - figure out how to make them work for you... move up to photoflood Smith and Victor fixtures, move up from there. You won't know what fixtures you need until you reach the limitations of what you've got

Get some "Router Speed Controllers" from harbor freight tools online as dimmers. Get a Rosco lighting gel master location pack from Filmtools.com and a bunch of c-47s (wooden clothes pins) for attaching them (remember not to let them touch the actual bulbs or the UV glass in front if you're using worklights - smoke = bad).

Here's some of my testing: http://www.yafiunderground.com/index.php?page=lighting_distances
Shot with my Canon XL1s

 

[directorik]

My point was the camera itself doesn’t determine your lighting set
up. The lighting set up wheat is using will work with the XL2 or
the GL2 or a five year old Panasonic or brand new JVC. The lights
you are buying or thinking about buying will work well for any
camera.

However, you are correct; some cameras work better in low light
conditions than others. But you should do your very best to NEVER
shoot in low light conditions. Learn to light well and that will
take some time. There are many variations when lighting. Somtimes
you will need several 1k lights, sometimes three 650w lamps will
do. Often you’ll use a big light - 2k or even 5k - as a key,
several 650w, a couple of 150w and a 300w to get the lighting
right.

Try not to think in minimums and do not think lighting will be
different for the XL2. Use what you have as wall as you can.