breaking the 180 rule in a small room ?

M

McCloud

So I've got the following office scene..



I'd need to do an establishing shot from the door on the whole office, then medium / detail on the person sitting behind the desk, his coffee mug.
Then a wide shot from the window side showing another person coming in.

Then again a close up on the face of the guy sitting behind the table.


Would this look ok ?
When it's drawn like this, it seems all over the place.. but I can't think of any other way to do this.. and it shouldn't look that bad if I combine the actual shots in post.
 
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Is that two cameras? Any reason you need to shoot with two? Are they your camera positions?

If you cross the line, both people will be looking in the same direction, so they won't look like they're looking at each other at all. As far as I can tell, there appears to be no need to cross the line in this scene, but I don't know what the action will be.
 
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jax_rox said:
Is that two cameras? Any reason you need to shoot with two? Are they your camera positions?

If you cross the line, both people will be looking in the same direction, so they won't look like they're looking at each other at all. As far as I can tell, there appears to be no need to cross the line in this scene, but I don't know what the action will be.
Click to expand...

sorry, my bad.
One camera... it just shows the change of positions.

Basically, from the C1 position, person 1 will be seen from the back.

But I also need to get a detail of his face.. from the front (position C2).

Is there a better way to do this ?
 
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Technically you can't break the 180-degree rule with one person, per-say, if it is a rule breaker than it is an acceptable one often called a flip. Once the second person enters the room, it becomes possible if you start moving the camera from either side of the two actors. No reason to do that since you can use other shots that will work as well.
 
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HKB said:
Technically you can't break the 180-degree rule with one person, per-say,
Click to expand...

Of course you can. Actor is walking down the street, screen left to right. Cut to: he is walking down the street screen right to left. But is supposed to be still walking in the same direction.

The main reason for the 180° rule is orientation.
 
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Okay, if moving it can happen as you say. Why anyone would shoot that is beyond me, however, depending on the shot, it might still work and not confuse the viewer. Close-up with various angles perhaps.

indietalk said:
Of course you can. Actor is walking down the street, screen left to right. Cut to: he is walking down the street screen right to left. But is supposed to be still walking in the same direction.

The main reason for the 180° rule is orientation.
Click to expand...
 
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It happens more times than you would think.

If you do break the plane, a test screening if often a good idea, to see if anyone was disoriented.

"I don't understand why the burglar was running back to the store he just robbed."

Time for a re-edit. ;)
 
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A good storyboard can usually prevent these mishaps.

indietalk said:
It happens more times than you would think.

If you do break the plane, a test screening if often a good idea, to see if anyone was disoriented.

"I don't understand why the burglar was running back to the store he just robbed."

Time for a re-edit. ;)
Click to expand...
 
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What you call a mishap others would call intentional. There's times people want to break it, and a test screening helps see if it works.
 
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HKB said:
Okay, if moving it can happen as you say. Why anyone would shoot that is beyond me, however,
Click to expand...

Why is that beyond you? People who post here are at different
levels of experience. For me it took some experimentation and
mistakes to grasp screen direction.

On one of my very first films we shot a chase scene. At one point
we found a great angle and shot the people running. It wasn't
until the editing that I noticed that one shot made it look like they
had suddenly turned around. I actually made that mistake several
times as I was learning and building my level of experience.

I still sometimes struggle with the "180 degree rule". Less so
these days with moving but often with small rooms. What has helped
me is keeping track of the eyeline. Technically that rule CAN be broken
with one person; a master shot of them sitting at a desk where the
window is clearly to their right. A close up where they look to their
left to gaze out the window. For you it may be innate or it may be
because of your experience but to some filmmakers it isn't that
easy to keep track.
 
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The 180 degree rule is not a rule, it's a guideline for basic dialogue between two people. Hollywood movies break this rule all the time especially Marvel movies. As long as the audience can still figure out that one person still has eye contact with the other it's fine.
 
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Based on the coverage, I can't really see why you'd necessarily need to cross the line in this scene. Keep in mind, the line between the two people is not established until the second person walks in. Before that, the lines is perhaps between Person A and the desk, for example. Of course, as you're not shooting matching coverage of the desk (generally), and the desk doesn't have eyes (generally - you may be shooting a zany comedy), crossing that line is often not a problem at all.

I don't know what the blocking is, so I can't advise you specifically too much unless/until I have a better idea of the blocking.

In more general terms, as directorik says, make sure the eyelines work and you'll be okay. That said, crossing the line can disorient much more than just eyelines, so keep that in mind. Sometimes it works, or is intended, other times it doesn't. Depends on the scene.
 
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I was somewhat referring to moving across the street as mentioned
above. I just wouldn't have wasted the effort in moving the equipment
and such for a shot that could be taken on the same side of the street
given different angles, close-ups, pans, and zooms. Time is money
regardless of the rule here. However, I agree an experienced filmmaker
can make a mistake, this is a good example why storyboarding, and
daily rushes can eliminate some of these shots and cut time and cost
of production.

directorik said:
Why is that beyond you? People who post here are at different
levels of experience. For me it took some experimentation and
mistakes to grasp screen direction.

On one of my very first films we shot a chase scene. At one point
we found a great angle and shot the people running. It wasn't
until the editing that I noticed that one shot made it look like they
had suddenly turned around. I actually made that mistake several
times as I was learning and building my level of experience.

I still sometimes struggle with the "180 degree rule". Less so
these days with moving but often with small rooms. What has helped
me is keeping track of the eyeline. Technically that rule CAN be broken
with one person; a master shot of them sitting at a desk where the
window is clearly to their right. A close up where they look to their
left to gaze out the window. For you it may be innate or it may be
because of your experience but to some filmmakers it isn't that
easy to keep track.
Click to expand...
 
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