sound Boom Op Advice?
- Thread starter Godchoo
- Start date
When I did production sound I ALWAYS yelled "Quiet" and listened for a moment to be sure that everything actually was quiet before I announced "Sound - Speed". Another announcement before the first take that has emerged in the last 20+ years is "CELL PHONES OFF!!!"
Back in the late '20's "when sound was king" the production sound mixer had the power to yell "Cut" if the sound wasn't perfect.
Interrupting a take in progress is probably #1 on the list of things that will get someone fired with a quickness. If not #1, definitely in the top 5. #1 is probably punching the EP in the face.
Back in the late '20's "when sound was king" the production sound mixer had the power to yell "Cut" if the sound wasn't perfect.
The best directors still care about sound.
It's the amateurs that have no clue.
I can always tell a good director by their concentration on sound quality.
So quit your job if you don't have the power to yell cut or have any influence on shooting for sound unless you're just there to get a guide-track for ADR... which is mostly what production sound these days is valuable for anyway...
I'm disgusted with the quality of production sound now-a-days. There are only a few that I know of which are worth their paycheck. And the good ones are worth their weight in gold.
It's the amateurs that have no clue.
I can always tell a good director by their concentration on sound quality.
So quit your job if you don't have the power to yell cut or have any influence on shooting for sound unless you're just there to get a guide-track for ADR... which is mostly what production sound these days is valuable for anyway...
I'm disgusted with the quality of production sound now-a-days. There are only a few that I know of which are worth their paycheck. And the good ones are worth their weight in gold.
Interesting. I've seen one guy do something similar, but only a couple of times. The cell phones off thing I hear more from the ADs at the start of the day - but definitely a big issue. I AC and sometimes operate for a guy regularly who always seems to forget about his phone. It's corp/industrial video type stuff and he's the boss so we all give him a bit of ribbing, but other than that it's his show. Funny that it's almost always the producers with their phones going.
I could totally see that, sound was definitely "king" in those days. Many silent era actresses, and some actors, found themselves loosing work because they didn't have the right kind of voice. And don't get me started on the static setups.
Amazing to think of the equipment needed to do production sound in the early days, then take a look at some of the gear in use now.
The basics are still the same; a device to capture sound, a device to amplify the signal of the sound capture device and an audio recording device. Some of those old mics from the 30's and 40's are highly coveted today and command top dollar - they sound absolutely awesome. All of the noise came from the recording medium; first actual record disks, then analog tape and the first film optical sound track.
The classic musical "Singin' In The Rain" is a very funny look at when talkies came into vogue. I especially love the scene where they shoot their first talkie. It's played for laughs but illustrates some of the initial problems they encountered.
The classic musical "Singin' In The Rain" is a very funny look at when talkies came into vogue. I especially love the scene where they shoot their first talkie. It's played for laughs but illustrates some of the initial problems they encountered.
In my experience it's the sound guy that makes this call, not the boom op. I've never seen anyone call this out during a take. It's always either reported after the director calls cut, or announced before the roll.
IE: 1AD calls for roll sound, then the sound mixer asks to hold for <insert noise here> and the director will make the call to either wait or just roll and deal with it.
Interrupting a take in progress is probably #1 on the list of things that will get someone fired with a quickness. If not #1, definitely in the top 5. #1 is probably punching the EP in the face.
To clarify...if you're friends with the director, and have a good relationship with the team, the boom/sound guy can probably say something during a take...
But ya, best not to. Just make sure the director knows about the sound you picked up (or was obvious).
I'm a director who cares about audio quality. If a boom op
or mixer ever yelled "cut" on my set due to poor audio I
would put a stop to that immediately. If it happened a second
time I would replace the person. I pride myself on running
an easy going, friendly, creatively open, collaborative set. But
no one has the power to yell cut on my set.
On the same issue, I expect the boom op and mixer to tell
me when there are audio issues. After I say cut. As the director
I'm watching the actors - I'm not looking at the lights, the
framing, the continuity or listening for audio issues. I want the
people doing those jobs to do those jobs.
And I'm not talking about a pro set. I'm talking about an amateur
or semi-pro set with a tiny crew. I don't need to have the audio
person yelling cut when they hear a problem, I don't want the
scripty yelling cut when there is a continuity issue, I don't want
the DP/operator to yell cut when the actor steps out of the light
or they crowd the frame.
No one knows what might happen during the next few seconds
after the audio problem. I just might be able to use the bit after
the firetruck/traffic noise/airplane/toilet flush and I might have
other coverage of the lines missed. And we can ALWAYS do another
take.
Yes, what Rik said. I could hear the fire truck go by too, but what I'm looking at is this gorgeous thing the actor is doing with her left eye that she didn't do in the previous takes. I want that to continue until I've seen enough, no matter what else is happening, because even though incorrect things are happening, I know I can use it. I expect the boom op and the sound recordist and the camera operators to tell me if something was amiss, after I've yelled cut. Actors, too. Our first cast and crew meetings always include a spiel about how everyone is expected to continue doing their jobs until "cut" is called. Everyone.
Because I run a laid back set and trust my crew and they have a good relationship with me, they have the freedom to, after a take, say "can we get another one?" if I mistakenly feel we have coverage and are ready to move on.
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Guys, I get that is the way you like to work and it seems like you missed the "or have any influence on shooting for sound" because being able to tell the director the take was scrap because of a helicopter by would be having influence on shooting for sound. That's what I meant.. If you don't want someone yelling cut then that's your preference and you're the boss.
I personally think some of the best moments in film come from flubs and out-takes anyway.
Case in point: During Valkyrie there is a shot of Tom Wilkinson in his office and he's staring at the camera and it's only him sitting there waiting for the director to say "action" and he even says at the end of his stare-down "ARE WE GOING TO ROLL OR WHAT??" but the moments leading up to him saying that are in the movie. Haha - go figure.
I personally think some of the best moments in film come from flubs and out-takes anyway.
Case in point: During Valkyrie there is a shot of Tom Wilkinson in his office and he's staring at the camera and it's only him sitting there waiting for the director to say "action" and he even says at the end of his stare-down "ARE WE GOING TO ROLL OR WHAT??" but the moments leading up to him saying that are in the movie. Haha - go figure.
Not only did I not miss your “or have any influence on shooting
for sound” line, I quoted it and commented on it. We are in
agreement. Where we differ - so where I offered my opinion on our
difference - was the first part of your comment, “So quit your job
if you don't have the power to yell cut”.
I completely agree with you that the recordist and boom op should
be able to tell the director what they hear. I’ll go a step
further - it’s a requirement of the job.
Perhaps you didn’t mean a boom op should quit the job if they
don’t have the power to yell cut, but it’s what you said. And there's
no, real, issue there. If you DO feel that way, that's fine. A boom
op who feels it's an important aspect of their job to be able to yell
cut when an obvious audio problem comes up will need to work
with a director who is agreeable to that. As a director I would respect
a boom op (or production recordist) who told me that up front.
for sound” line, I quoted it and commented on it. We are in
agreement. Where we differ - so where I offered my opinion on our
difference - was the first part of your comment, “So quit your job
if you don't have the power to yell cut”.
I completely agree with you that the recordist and boom op should
be able to tell the director what they hear. I’ll go a step
further - it’s a requirement of the job.
Perhaps you didn’t mean a boom op should quit the job if they
don’t have the power to yell cut, but it’s what you said. And there's
no, real, issue there. If you DO feel that way, that's fine. A boom
op who feels it's an important aspect of their job to be able to yell
cut when an obvious audio problem comes up will need to work
with a director who is agreeable to that. As a director I would respect
a boom op (or production recordist) who told me that up front.
I could see that on certain sets - but imho it creates too much confusion to have anyone except the director calling cut on the take in progress. As others have mentioned, the final say is with the director and how s/he wants to run the show. Full Disclosure: I've only worked the ultra-low territory myself, so no experience with the "Big Shows."
Certainly after the take all departments should report any problems to either their key or the director - um, directly - depending on how the set is flowing. I've asked for another take when I thought the focus pull could be better timed or feel that an important portion was soft - more often than not I've gotten it. Better to politely ask for another, then turn in something unusable from your department (sound, camera, continuity, props, whatever).
Funny thing about this thread is that we're all kinda saying the same thing.
@rik - yeah. I didn't exactly mean to quit the job if you didn't have free reign over a set. I could have rephrased my comment better.
What I meant was that if you come across a director who cares nothing about sound, IMO I'd quit the job because you won't get anywhere or be respected as you should and thus it will be a tough job and not very satisfying or fun.
I can't tell you how many times a director has told me "Sound is so important to this film" and then not acted upon it, thus causing problems later.
What I meant was that if you come across a director who cares nothing about sound, IMO I'd quit the job because you won't get anywhere or be respected as you should and thus it will be a tough job and not very satisfying or fun.
I can't tell you how many times a director has told me "Sound is so important to this film" and then not acted upon it, thus causing problems later.
I get ya. It's clear now. I gotta admit I was surprised that
anyone would advocate anyone other than the director
yelling cut on a set. Thus my comment. But you and I are
in total agreement that a director should listen to the pros
on their set. And we all know it doesn't always happen.
David, while I have worked as crew on big shows I have only
directed low and ULB shows. I expect the crew to tell me when
anything doesn’t meet their standards. Pulling focus is essential,
especially when shooting with primes. I’ve never questioned an AC
who needs another take due to just about anything.
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Thanks ROC. To be fair, I have fewer restrictions than
directors working on big budget shows. I have more
limitations but I don't have a studio boss insisting that
I make my day because they are hemorrhaging $200,000
per day. And those limitations force me to be more careful.
I MUST get good, clean production audio because I can't
afford an ADR session.
I worked with Lynch on "Wild at Heart" and then on "Inland
Empire" I gottta say that the guy I worked with on "Inland
Empire" was a much happier, creative guy.
directors working on big budget shows. I have more
limitations but I don't have a studio boss insisting that
I make my day because they are hemorrhaging $200,000
per day. And those limitations force me to be more careful.
I MUST get good, clean production audio because I can't
afford an ADR session.
I worked with Lynch on "Wild at Heart" and then on "Inland
Empire" I gottta say that the guy I worked with on "Inland
Empire" was a much happier, creative guy.
For sure.
As good a job that Peter Jackson did on Lord of the Rings in making it his own and making it how he wanted it, even HE had people whispering in his ear about "cut this, cut that, do it this way" and I'm sure if Peter had his way, the movies would each be 6 hours long.
Being an ADR mixer myself I completely understand the ADR session fees and what they can be
You need any help on anything sound related you let me know.
As good a job that Peter Jackson did on Lord of the Rings in making it his own and making it how he wanted it, even HE had people whispering in his ear about "cut this, cut that, do it this way" and I'm sure if Peter had his way, the movies would each be 6 hours long.
Being an ADR mixer myself I completely understand the ADR session fees and what they can be
You need any help on anything sound related you let me know.
Love to hear this sort of stuff. I've been told by more people than I can count that I am incredibly critical of my own work, and I always feel, well, crappy if I miss a shot, or if a rebuild takes too long. Hell, I've had moments where I felt personally responsible for things totally out of my control, like SATA errors or dropped frames on a RED.
Personally though, I believe that crew has to take full ownership of their responsibilities and hold themselves to extremely high standards.Either way, I'm in total agreement about reporting when something is amiss from any department. It's crucial because everyone is responsible for their own bit. That's why we're all there - do to the job and do it awesomely, all day, every day.
LISTEN! Know what you want to hear, Listen carefully in the headphones, if there is some sound you don't want, let the director ot AD know so it can be fixed
LISTEN! Know what you want to hear, Listen carefully in the headphones, if there is some sound you don't want, let the director or AD know so it can be fixed.
I'm always working with small crews. When I'm directing, or the DP, i need my sound guy to be good technically; fixing problems and to hear as well as i do I be as good at sound as I am (I'm also a sound mixer), so I don't have to work about that stuff during the shoot.
No...you're right...absolutely. I wouldn't yell cut during a take. Never. I meant...if during a scene, there is an audio issue, and I'm on a set with friends, I'll let them know someway or another.