sound Best way to go about sound with Canon 5D MkIII?

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Acooljt

OK, first off, yes, I'm a total noob. Having said that, I'm not a complete moron. :P I'm going to shoot a short film here in the coming months that I'll be writing/directing and it seems like the Canon 5d MkIII is the way to go as far as quality video and a decent price. Obviously though, it's sound lacks. I've researched shotgun mics but it seems like none of them have any range. So what's the best way obtain decent sound on my short film WITHOUT having to sync in post? This is the key. I know I can use a whole separate recording setup and have to sync it in post but as I'm basically a one man crew, I'd prefer to dodge this bullet. Obviously I want to use a boom mic instead of a shotgun, right? And I've read a lot of reviews talking about this Beachtek stuff? Could you guys educate me further on what I should do to get decent sound without having to sync in post?

I'm sorry if this question's been asked a million times but I really have scoured google and youtube but none of the articles or topics seem to answer my question directly, just kind of dance around similar issues.

And lastly, thanks in advance for the help and thanks to the creators of this forum for the great resource!
 
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TheArtist said:
The only boom mounted mic they have is a very expensive Figure 8.. Now is that any kind of useful for filmmaking ? In what situation ?
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In conjunction with a cardioid mic, a figure 8 mic is sometimes used to form an MS stereo pair for recording stereo sound effects but a figure 8 mic is pretty much useless for recording production sound (dialogue).

G
 
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Acooljt said:
Can you guys recommend a good mic for indoor use in the $500 or less range? Preferably something from a reputable brand.
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A popular medium budget hyper for production sound is the Audio Technica AT4053b.

TheArtist said:
And what's the issue when using a hyper outdoors ?
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You want to record as little of the external environment as possible. With its narrow pick-up pattern, if it's used properly, a shotgun picks up less of the environment than a hyper. A hyper, with it's wider pick-up pattern, will pick up more of the environmental noise such as cars, wildlife, etc. (See the chart above.)

The point of production sound is to capture dialog and only dialog. All other sounds should be added in audio post. It's all about control, and as filmmakers and the associated crafts we are all control freaks.
 
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The Sony MDR-7605 (MDR-V6) are fairly standard. The Sennheiser HD280 are becoming popular, although they are not as compact. Both about $100.

The Sennheiser HD25-1 II are also becoming popular - $200.


For about $400 there are ear protectors (like you use on a pistol range) that have the MDR-7605 or HD25-1 II electronics built into them. They are obviously extremely isolated and are used in - obviously - high noise situations. They are also popular with drummers in the recording studio. Pretty cool....
 
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Acooljt said:
Thanks for all the help guys. I'll use the Tascam DR-100mkII, AT-875 for exterior shots, and the AT4053b for interior. Does the Tascam transfer easily to FCP?
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I have the AT4053b, and one of the biggest problems with it, is that it's highly sensitive to low bass sounds. If you are just recording dialogue with it, then it's okay, but I wouldn't use it to record sound effects that create any kind of shock, such as a door slamming or foot stomping. It's very sensitive to shock in my experience.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
The Sony MDR-7605 (MDR-V6) are fairly standard. The Sennheiser HD280 are becoming popular, although they are not as compact. Both about $100.

The Sennheiser HD25-1 II are also becoming popular - $200.


For about $400 there are ear protectors (like you use on a pistol range) that have the MDR-7605 or HD25-1 II electronics built into them. They are obviously extremely isolated and are used in - obviously - high noise situations. They are also popular with drummers in the recording studio. Pretty cool....
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Did you mean 7506? I couldn't find the 7605.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I have the AT4053b, and one of the biggest problems with it, is that it's highly sensitive to low bass sounds.
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Here's where you come up against:

"Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one and they all stink."

I love the AT4053b for exactly the reason that Harmonica doesn't - that big, full, rich low end. I can always roll off the lows if I need to; it's next to impossible to create them if they aren't a part of the original sound. When it comes to sound it's very easy to subtract, very difficult to impossible to add.
 
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Actually h44 brings an interesting point.

Shotgun for outdoors, hyper for indoors and what about foley ? I suppose it depends if you have a studio how the walls are made and stuff like that ?
 
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Production sound and audio post are two completely different animals.

A "proper" Foley studio is the size of a small gymnasium with a small warehouse attached for the props.

Some Foley mixers (the guys who record the Foley) like shotguns, others like hypers, and some like LDCs (Large Diaphragm Condensers). Some like to use several mics at the same time.

I close mic most things with either a hyper or an LDC. Reason? My room is very small and not as dead as I would like it. I get perspective with volume, EQ and IR reverbs during the mix. For very loud sounds I sometimes use a dynamic mic.

But then my bailiwick is low/no/mini/micro budget projects. If you want a high class Foley team and a high class Foley sound done very quickly you pay high class prices. And most of what you pay is to maintain the facility - rent, props, insurance, props, quieter than whisper-quiet HVAC, props, room isolation, props, room treatment, props, upgrades, props, additions to the mic closet, props, and props.


Foley cannot be done by formula, it is one of the most eclectic of the audio art forms. Every team in every Foley house will have their own "formula" that is completely unique, and it continuously evolves.



We won't even get into the incredible variety of mics/mixers/recorders employed to record sound effects in the field.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Here's where you come up against:

"Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one and they all stink."

I love the AT4053b for exactly the reason that Harmonica doesn't - that big, full, rich low end. I can always roll off the lows if I need to; it's next to impossible to create them if they aren't a part of the original sound. When it comes to sound it's very easy to subtract, very difficult to impossible to add.
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Well when I record sounds such as a door slam with the 4053b, it creates sort of a static sound in the mic, and I am pretty sure that static is unwanted. That's the problem I have been having with it anyway, but if it's a good thing, then it's a good thing.

I think the OP should try to find a PSM and boom op, or at least a boom op, that would be interested in working with him, if possible. Cause that would really help to get good sound for a newbie.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well when I record sounds such as a door slam with the 4053b, it creates sort of a static sound in the mic, and I am pretty sure that static is unwanted.
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That's a very different issue than too much low end. The problem (static sound) may be digital clipping; try turning down the gain. You may want to consider a quality mic pre.

You may also want to consider using a different mic. As I mentioned I sometimes use a dynamic mic in addition to a condenser mic when recording sounds with very loud transients such as door slams; the dynamic in close and the condenser further away. I might or might not blend the two during the mix.

And before you ask, the dynamic will be a Shure SM57, or an EV (Electrovoice) RE-20, or a Beyer TG-X50. For a hyper when doing sound effects I usually use a Sennheiser MKH-40, but sometimes the AKG C-1000S. For the LDC I'll use my AKG 414-BUL/S. It's nice to have choices.
 
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TheArtist said:
And what's the issue when using a hyper outdoors ?
The only boom mounted mic they have is a very expensive Figure 8.. Now is that any kind of useful for filmmaking ?
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Tape it to an omni and roll your own adjustable pattern mic :cool:
Don't forget to point the side of the mic at the source though not the tip:D
 
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I only just noticed this thread, and as always Alcove has contributed fantastic information here to set some of the misconceptions straight.
I personally think that if anyone is thinking of getting into making any type of film, then actually spending some time learning the basics of sound, microphones etc so that you get off on the right foot to start with. Hit and miss often seems to be the way that new filmmakers approach audio. Not such a great idea.
If anyone is interested, I have written a basic tutorial on understanding different microphone types.
 
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Oh I think I found that page while searching some info on Google.

I have another question. What is exactly referred to when people say "zeppelin" ?

I tried to talk to some guy within the club I mentioned earlier who had this Figure 8, trying to understand why would they buy something like this. He said so many things, he was all over the place, invoking condensers, cardioid, zeppelin... I think he don't really know what he was talking about but he was convinced he was. Now I just want to find out how much that mic actually cost.
 
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Mic Zeppelin/Blimp​


The mic fits inside the zeppelin/blimp. The blimp/zeppelin provides protection from wind.
BTW, the furry thing that covers the blimp is called a dead cat.

41CTT48VwwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg



The Graff Zeppelin

zeppelin-1%255B1%255D.jpg


Led Zeppelin

20121010-led-zeppelin-1971-595x-1349880615.jpg
​
 
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