Been Sued?

I know I'm going to provoke several "better safe than sorry" replies, but here I go.

I've read numerous posts where the poster asks about copyright & trademarks appearing in films. Personally, I feel these worries are over-blown because I've never seen any evidence of an indie filmmaker being taken to court by either a film studio or a stakeholder in a brand or trademark. The likely reason is that we are small, non-profitable types, with limited assets for seizure. I've seen several Batman fan films on youtube which have some decent production value, and many views.

THE SCENARIO: I'm small player who is creating a feature film that will never see a theatrical release. My high water mark is a film festival screenings. I will never turn a profit, because I have no plan to make a cent on this.


Based on this scenario has anyone had, read, or known anyone who action taken against them:
- Studio block screenings over copyright.
- Company block screenings over trademark.
- Festival demand releases for all incidental trademarks, actors, locations.
- A non-actor who appeared in a shot (unknowingly as background extra).


I see the reason for concern, but I don't see the list of cases which justify the degree of concern among indie filmmakers.
 
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My high water mark is a film festival screenings.

Just FYI, most legitimate festivals require you to "sign" an agreement stating you have permission to use any copyrighted material used in your film. If you lie to them and are found out, you have just forfeited any chance of being accepted into the festival, along with your entry fee.

Chances are, you won't be sued. But festivals are already difficult enough to get into without shooting yourself in the foot before trying to get it in the door. Your call.
 
I never heard of a case..But what is the point of making a film if it's not to TRY to secure a theatrical release?

I know I'm going to provoke several "better safe than sorry" replies, but here I go.

I've read numerous posts where the poster asks about copyright & trademarks appearing in films. Personally, I feel these worries are over-blown because I've never seen any evidence of an indie filmmaker being taken to court by either a film studio or a stakeholder in a brand or trademark. The likely reason is that we are small, non-profitable types, with limited assets for seizure. I've seen several Batman fan films on youtube which have some decent production value, and many views.

THE SCENARIO: I'm small player who is creating a feature film that will never see a theatrical release. My high water mark is a film festival screenings. I will never turn a profit, because I have no plan to make a cent on this.


Based on this scenario has anyone had, read, or known anyone who action taken against them:
- Studio block screenings over copyright.
- Company block screenings over trademark.
- Festival demand releases for all incidental trademarks, actors, locations.
- A non-actor who appeared in a shot (unknowingly as background extra).


I see the reason for concern, but I don't see the lis of cases which justify the degree of concern among indie filmmakers.
 
- Festival demand releases for all incidental trademarks, actors, locations.
This seems to be pretty common really.. from Tropfest:

[You must provide]

Signed Release Forms
Signed Release Forms for all works in which copyright exists. This includes literary (eg. if your film is based on a novel, your script etc.), dramatic (eg. performers etc.), artistic (eg. paintings etc.) or musical works, or films, sound recordings, broadcasts, and published editions. For a typical short film, all contributors must sign a Release Form.

Written Permission for All Music in your Film
If you choose to use published (i.e. existing music, for example by a famous band), you will need permission in the form of a license agreement to do so. The license will be in perpetuity. To obtain the necessary clearance to use existing music, you will need to contact the copyright owner/s of your chosen track and request a licence agreement to use their music and/or sound reading in 'all media' in 'all territories'.

From Cannes:
Article 11
Complete documentation for each selected film is to be made available to the Film Department when required.

From Tribeca:
If your work is selected, you must fulfill the following requirements by the date(s) designated by the Festival:

(1) You must execute a release agreement wherein you (i) accept responsibility for obtaining any and all clearances necessary to exhibit your film at TFF12; (ii) warrant that you have the rights necessary to exhibit your film at TFF12; and (iii) indemnify and hold harmless Tribeca Film Festival NYC, LLC, its parent company, its affiliates, and subsidiaries and any of their respective directors, officers, employees, and representatives against any claim arising out of exhibition of your film at TFF12.

From Sundance:

It is the sole responsibility of the Applicant to clear all content of the Film from any and all
actual or potential legal claims and issues, including, without limitation, claims based upon
theories of libel, defamation, invasion of privacy, violation of rights of publicity, theft of trade
secrets, breach of confidence, breach of confidential relationship, and breach of express or
implied contract (“Third Party Claim(s)”). The Institute expressly disavows any responsibility
for, and will not be held responsible for, any unauthorized inclusion of any content or
materials within or relating to the submitted Film that are or may be the basis for any Third
Party Claims based upon any of the foregoing legal theories or others. The Institute reserves
the right to disqualify, without refund of any or all submission fees previously collected from
the Applicant, any Film that is or may become the subject of any Third Party Claims. In the
event that any Third Party Claim(s) shall be asserted by any person or entity, Applicant shall
fully indemnify and defend the Institute, the Festival, and each of their representatives and
affiliates from any liability in connection therewith and from any and all fees and expenses,
including but not limited to attorneys’ fees, that each of any of them may incur in connection
therewith.
 
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I've read numerous posts where the poster asks about copyright & trademarks appearing in films. Personally, I feel these worries are over-blown because I've never seen any evidence of an indie filmmaker being taken to court by either a film studio or a stakeholder in a brand or trademark.

What you are missing is this - You also aren't seeing those same filmmakers get DISTRIBUTION... because they have to purchase ERRORS AND OMISSIONS INSURANCE, which in a movie that flippantly just uses whatever copyright or trademarks in the film will suddenly be too expensive to cover, so they don't distribute the movie.

Better safe than sorry, but in a more practical way.
 
Have you ever heard of such a thing happening? What was the precise situation?

I saw the dir & producers of a film get called out on their non-cleared music by a rather vicious audience, at the Q&A immediately after the screening. It wasn't a huge fest with a lot at stake, but there usually tends to be a lot of other competing filmmakers watching the films and attending to see what the competition's up to - noone likes an uneven playing field.

Now, I dunno if that had anything to do with the film (which was quite good) ending up with nothing later, but festival organisers were definitely aware of it at that point, even if they'd not noticed it earlier.


My high water mark is a film festival screenings. I will never turn a profit, because I have no plan to make a cent on this.

K, so that may be your high-mark, and you don't intend to make money. :cool:

Whatcha gonna do if the film is actually good, scoops some awards, and an indie dist company approaches you to buy it? You gonna laugh at them & tell 'em sorry but their cash is no good? :hmm:

Why so many filmmakers fight so hard to make their own products non-viable is beyond me.
 
Yikes, a mob ... with pitchforks.

I knew I was teeing myself up with this a question.

I sense this thread has turned toward the morality of using the work of others in ones film. Having worked for years in the industry and have a black & white view on this subject; you can imagine how I felt when someone applied to a company I was working at using my demo reel. Enough said.

But I think the thread would return to my intended topic if I present my own specific situations.

- Seeing incidental background non-actors in shots,
- Recognizable buildings and famous locations into which I want to composite my actors.
- Character crossing the street, and there happens to be a recognizable business in BG (e.g. Bank of America, or Walmart).
- An actor asking for a "Nescafe", or an "iPhone"
- Shooting a fake car chase (no stunt driving), and cutting in some shots where they drive on world famous roads where I didn't have clearance to shoot.
- Seeing the license plate of non-picture-cars.
- A wide shot of a downtown area where I see several store names.
- Grabbing a couple shots, run & gun, where I don't have a permit.

Have these scenarios ever resulted in a legal problem for a filmmaker at a festival, or even distribution. It is perfectly within my abilities to replace signs, lic. plates and faces from shots, but do I need to?

When I read that Budweiser couldn't get their labels removed from FLIGHT, and how these brands actually have no say on whether their brand appears in a film, or how it's portrayed, it made me re-think my own level of concern on the subject.

Would I like to shoot the next break-out indie and land a distribution deal? Sure. But I also know the odds.

I hope this provides a little clarity.
 
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But I think the thread would return to my intended topic if I present my own specific situations.

- Seeing incidental background non-actors in shots,
- Recognizable buildings and famous locations into which I want to composite my actors.
- Character crossing the street, and there happens to be a recognizable business in BG (e.g. Bank of America, or Walmart).

If you really want to know the real world effect having Bank of America in a picture, try this: Call an insurance firm that does E&O Insurance and ask them if you have this, will they still insure you. If so, will this change your premium. You can then make your own call to whether you're good or not.

When I read that Budweiser couldn't get their labels removed from FLIGHT, and how these brands actually have no say on whether their brand appears in a film, or how it's portrayed, it made me re-think my own level of concern on the subject.

While Budweiser couldn't get the film Flight to remove their labels, I believe they still got sued. Even though they were unsuccessful, the E&O insurers still had to pay lawyers to to put up that defense. Without insurance, who is responsible for that cost? You?

- An actor asking for a "Nescafe", or an "iPhone"

This I believe is a little different. I don't know about Nescafe or iPhone as specifics, but once a word goes into the general vernacular, a non-competing entity is allowed to use the words without paying royalties. For instance Xerox is a commonly used term for photocopying. You can use the word Xerox (not their logo) in a script and aren't required to pay royalties.

- Shooting a fake car chase (no stunt driving), and cutting in some shots where they drive on world famous roads where I didn't have clearance to shoot.

My understanding of the situation (at least in my country) is if you shoot in a public place, it's relatively fair game. The main proviso is you cannot single individuals out. I don't see a problem with this one.

- Seeing the license plate of non-picture-cars.

No idea. I suspect it comes under a similar line to using a phone number that exists.

- A wide shot of a downtown area where I see several store names.

This comes under a greed thing. If you're a low budget film and you want to get releases to use business names, you're often going to be able to get them cheaper at the time. If you have to come back to get releases so you can secure a distribution deal, they may ask for more money.

- Grabbing a couple shots, run & gun, where I don't have a permit.

That's up to you and your crew. If you're happy to pay the piper if you're caught, then that's really your choice. From what I understand, you're often just told to piss off, but if you're trying to get a lot of footage and you'll waste a lot of peoples time if you lose a days shooting, it might not be worth the risk.


Have these scenarios ever resulted in a legal problem for a filmmaker at a festival, or even distribution. It is perfectly within my abilities to replace signs, lic. plates and faces from shots, but do I need to?

Would I like to shoot the next break-out indie and land a distribution deal? Sure. But I also know the odds.

Law suits happen all the time.

The truth of the matter, most film makers are judgement proof. There is no real point in suing most film makers. What's the most you can win? A few stained t-shirts and a debt ridden credit card? You're only going to lose money in the long term suing poor film makers.

Where it would get a little stickier is if you hit it big within the statue of limitations. Lets say you make a film and ignore all releases. You don't even bother to get the releases from your stars. You manage to go very successfully on VOD and self distributed DVDs and make a couple million from it. Lets say that profits you about $1.9mil. Now you're no longer judgement proof. If anyone who feels they could have a piece of the movie (from cast, crew, even locations, musicians etc) could see you as an easy ticket to line their pockets with your new gained cash.

Lets say you don't make it big on your current video where you fail to protect yourself. Then you make a movie and somehow become a millionaire. The previous project could come to bite you in the read for some (or all) of that cash. There are plenty of people out there trying to make an easy living. All it takes is one or two of them to ruin your financial windfall. The chances of this happening increase the less judgement proof you become. You don't hear stories about people slipping on a homeless guy's step and suing him for all he's worth, but you do hear stories of people doing idiotic things and suing for millions (like the McDonalds hot coffee spill).

The truth of the matter, the last thing you want to do is do the festival circuit, have a distribution company want to pick you up and pay you millions in advances. How are you going to feel when you have to turn them down because you cannot deliver what's required.

Though you're right. Deep down, most people really don't need these releases or to be careful due to the simple reason. Most people aren't going to succeed. If you want to be considered, you have to pay attention to this stuff as a film maker. It's boring, painful and expensive, it's also drummed into producers because it's also necessary. This world is becoming increasingly litigious, not less.

One last point. You'll only hear of cases that are news worthy. Random Joe Worth Nothing vs Random Joe Worth Nothing isn't going to get press. You don't often hear producers getting sued for this because they know what is necessary and do it. They don't get distribution without E&O and they don't get E&O without doing what's necessary.

Now you decide.
 
Sweetie,

I've shot in Brisbane, and loved it (also Sydney, Surfers, Cairns). Awesome crews with a real sense of community.

Your post was along the lines of what I was looking for. I'm not the type who runs around with complete disregard of the law, annoying locals and ruining locations for future filmmakers (quite the opposite). I'm just trying to gauge the degree of exposure with this stuff. Kind of like speeding; 3kmh over the limit and nobody cares, but 30kmh over is a problem.

I wanted to avoid doing a bunch of composite & cleanup on my project, but I think it's unavoidable.
 
I've shot in Brisbane, and loved it (also Sydney, Surfers, Cairns). Awesome crews with a real sense of community.

Some are, some aren't. I'm glad you ran into the good representation of what we have to offer.

Your post was along the lines of what I was looking for. I'm not the type who runs around with complete disregard of the law, annoying locals and ruining locations for future filmmakers (quite the opposite). I'm just trying to gauge the degree of exposure with this stuff. Kind of like speeding; 3kmh over the limit and nobody cares, but 30kmh over is a problem.

There are always people who don't care for the future of others. It happens in every industry, though that's not the kind of stuff that I was talking about. I was more talking about about risk to yourself.

I wanted to avoid doing a bunch of composite & cleanup on my project, but I think it's unavoidable.

It's always best to be safe. We all live with the dream of being the next Speilberg/Lucas/Cameron etc. etc. I don't want to see anyone make it and have it taken away by some greedy prat (or corporation) who lucked upon the perfect storm. There are enough tough obstacles in film making without adding expensive legal issues on top.

Glad to have helped in your thread, though I'm not really sure I did. I don't have any examples of people being sued for these kinds of things, just a lot of points of view from what I learned in production theory.

If you're in Brisbane, be sure to look me up. Same for you if I'm near Berkeley.
 
I knew I was teeing myself up with this a question.

I sense this thread has turned toward the morality of using the work of others in ones film. Having worked for years in the industry and have a black & white view on this subject; you can imagine how I felt when someone applied to a company I was working at using my demo reel. Enough said.

But I think the thread would return to my intended topic if I present my own specific situations.

- Seeing incidental background non-actors in shots,
- Recognizable buildings and famous locations into which I want to composite my actors.
- Character crossing the street, and there happens to be a recognizable business in BG (e.g. Bank of America, or Walmart).
- An actor asking for a "Nescafe", or an "iPhone"
- Shooting a fake car chase (no stunt driving), and cutting in some shots where they drive on world famous roads where I didn't have clearance to shoot.
- Seeing the license plate of non-picture-cars.
- A wide shot of a downtown area where I see several store names.
- Grabbing a couple shots, run & gun, where I don't have a permit.

Have these scenarios ever resulted in a legal problem for a filmmaker at a festival, or even distribution. It is perfectly within my abilities to replace signs, lic. plates and faces from shots, but do I need to?
Never heard of any indie filmmaker being sued over this stuff. Ever since Wham-O got their ass handed to them in court when they tried to sue Paramount Pictures over an "improper" use of a Slip-N-Slide in Dickie Roberts Former Child Star, this has left a chilling effect on opportunists. Having said that I would always remove real products whenever possible anyway. Get adept at using After Effects to remove stuff that's already been shot.
I've never heard of anyone being sued because they didn't pull a permit either. I've been told by an attorney that if you shoot on someone's private property then all they can sue for is what they should have been paid for rental of their property. There's no punitive damages or anything big like that.
 
Speaking from the ultra low budget perspective, I have never heard of anyone in the independent realm getting sued over trademark or copyright infringement. This is for a few reasons. The main one being that there is no money or bench mark to be set by doing so. Most independent filmmakers do not have enough equity or assets personally, or in their LLC, to make it worth while...or even cover costs. Once a judgement is handed down it is expected the Defendant will file for bankruptcy.

However, if you plan on going the festival route - as mentioned above - you are assuring the festival programmer that you have secured the rights. Festivals like sales to happen at their event...it boosts exposure and makes it more desirable to high profile films and garners thousands more in entry fees from young hopefuls. What I HAVE seen happen is a film getting accepted into a major festival, screened, even win an award, then have license offers for distribution. These are not the Cinderella license offers, but 3-4 totalling $25,000 total. These offers were not able to be accepted because they didn't have a clean chain of title. Needless to say, the filmmakers went on a blacklist for the distributors and the festival. Reputation means so much in this business.

All that being said, if you ignore the very clear copyright and trademark laws, can you afford to be the first time anyone hears of an indie getting picked on? It's worth creating fake labels or getting an After Effects genius to work on it.
 
From what you've said Rok, I think it's *fairly* safe to say you're extremely unlikely to get sued. Much has been said about what could happen should your film be good enough to attract interest from a distributor/broadcaster.

I have something else to add though: I had a long conversation with someone in charge of running a moderate sized film festival (in the UK) last year. I brought up the issue of un-cleared materials use in lo/no budget indie filmmaking and was told that quite a few submissions are routinely dumped into the "reject" pile for this reason. Even though the filmmakers sign waivers which covers the festival, they would still rather avoid the hassle and bad publicity it could cause. We were mainly talking about the use of uncleared music but I was given the impression that even small things like trademarks, etc., might be discussed and taken into consideration in the final round of deciding which films to accept for screening. I was told that in the case of an outstanding entry, they would probably look into it in more detail and had on occasion even contacted the filmmaker for clarification. Of course, this is just one relatively regional film festival and might not be representative of many other film festivals but I thought I'd throw it into the hat.

G
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback. It certainly gives me something to think about. It seems like the best practice is to proceed with caution and make use of Maya & Nuke when appropriate.
 
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