Alright guys...New to Film making and would greatly appreciate your help and advice

Billberg

Billberg

Hey guys

I'm completely and utterly new to film making. I've been meaning to start shooting some stuff for years now, but as is the implications of having a great affinity for procrastination...I have never managed to get 'round to it until recently :D

I've always been into Screenwriting but what I really want to learn about is the fundamentals of making films. I want to be able to translate my work into real tangible film.


Effectively what I am asking you kind people for is any advice or tips for a complete green beginner. I want suggestions of any reading material you feel is practical and important in understanding how cameras and conditions work. I really want to learn and study this stuff.


However, recently I have been shooting stuff with my Dad's old Canon MV750i (old videocam) and it's quite clearly a bad cam. Is it a good idea to invest a lot of money in a cam as soon as you start or do you advise buying cheaper in the beginning?


Thanks for any help you can give. It's greatly appreciated.



Bill
 
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Kholi said:
There's a ton of filmmaking going on in Chicago. One of my friends just booked an acting role there.

A lot of my friends here in Los Angeles are from Chicago as well, and they want to go back to start building the community there.

Hell, there's a decent little filmmaking community in South Carolina... and, if I were smarter before I moved to Los Angeles I would've started at this in Georgia, where everything was cheaper if not free.
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Right on. I think it might be time to do some research and take a drive then!
 
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Billberg said:
I dont mind buying new equipment. I just have no idea regarding what quality is required.
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I'm not sure exactly what your budget it, but I'll try to put together a nice starting kit. Remember, there's a lot of people just like you out there who are also buying equipment. It's always a great idea to find others starting out so you're not stuck buying everything yourself.

DSLRs have become the de facto standard for ultra-low budget films. They've even been used on higher budget productions such as Black Swan and the TV show House. I'm currently shooting on the Panasonic GH2, but the Panasonic GH1 is a cheaper alternative and will still give you some great looking video. Others on this forum will probably recommend the Canon T3i/T2i/60D cameras, which are all good choices as well.

The main issue with DSLRs is when it comes to audio recording. They have horrible audio implementations and it's generally better to record separately. At a minimum, for festival-worthy sound I'd recommend picking up a Tascam DR-100 and a Audio-Technica AT897 with a boom kit. If you're more concerned with learning then you can probably get by with something more budget-friendly.

You'll also need lighting. On the micro-budget, you can get some china balls, clamp lights, and work lights from your local hardware store. If you're willing to spend more, you can get lights actually designed for photography/video, which will allow you more control, but also cost much more.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Here comes all of the contradictory advice. :D

You should use the camera you have and get a basic sound kit. Your projects only look as good as they sound...

My reasoning would be that once you do decide to upgrade - especially if it's a DSLR - you are still going to have to purchase an audio kit of some sort. So get used to recording the production sound separately and syncing the audio in post. Now you already have the basic audio skills and don't have to learn them while struggling with a new camera, plus the fact that you're not paying for a camera and an audio kit at the same time. Audio gear retains much more of its value over the years, and remains compatible with different cameras over the years.

In the end you will have to make up your own mind as to what to do. Everyone always wants to have the latest greatest toys, but ultimately the your skill as a storyteller rules, not the gear.

"Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one and they all stink."
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I have to agree with Alcove, if it comes down to you buying either a DSLR or an audio kit, you should definitely go with the audio kit first.
 
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Andrew Decker said:
When you say film tax Im assuming that means it costs 30% of the budget to film there?
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If you hire local crew etc, you're entitled to rebates in certain states or territories. At the end of production, you get said amount back from that state or territory.

At one point, I forgot which state it was, they had a 60% rebate. Was crazy.

Thread HiJack! Haha. Okay sorry.
 
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Billberg said:
Thanks for the welcome.

And I dont mind using this camera getting to grips with filming. It's just very limiting in the sense that I cant really work with actors and such when my equipment is so poor.

And you're right, London does have great opportunities. I dont study a film related course though (which would be great in terms of networking).
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I wouldn't worry about that too much. On the whole it's good to ask and you will, at least occasionally, receive.

If you're ever looking for crew experience in London I'm going to be shooting a fair bit over the summer, so do let me know. :)
 
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NickClapper said:
I wouldn't worry about that too much. On the whole it's good to ask and you will, at least occasionally, receive.

If you're ever looking for crew experience in London I'm going to be shooting a fair bit over the summer, so do let me know. :)
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AFter seeing Nick's short, I'd recommend jumping on with him! Good of you to offer it up, Nick.


Dreadylocks said:
You bet there is.

@kholi, if any of those contacts ever do end up moving back, do you wanna hook a sista' up? I always prefer personal references to craigslist :)
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For sure! One friend did move back, but they had a kid so it slowed his progress a little bit. If I catch anyone huntin' I'll refer for sure.
 
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SinEater said:
While I agree that making a film with the MV750 would be better than waiting and not doing anything, the original post makes it seem like he has at least some money to invest. I feel he could learn a lot more by at least getting a camera with manual settings, whether it's a DSLR or not. Either way, the best way to learn is to get out there and start shooting, no matter what equipment he has.
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And I feel it would be better to invest in a mic and some lights.
There is no right or wrong here. Now Bill has different points of
view to consider. I would rather start with an old camera, a mic
and some lights than a new camera.

Kholi said:
It's old technology... that's like telling someone to keep their old typewriter just because they have one, instead of getting a cheap laptop to write on.
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It sure is. And my advice would be to write on that old typewriter
rather than wait until you can afford a cheap laptop. You advise
waiting - I advise working with what you have. Neither is wrong.

Kholi said:
WE're not talking about the same people. I'm referring to those who are making a living doing this, not the scant few who gain notoriety for their work.
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Me too. Every single person I have ever met making a living doing
this started with no money, very little equipment and almost no
other people helping them. We clearly run in different circles. I
know no one making a living doing this who had a lot of money to
pay people when they were starting. Different experiences -
different advice.

Kholi said:
Okay, that's fine if you believe that.
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Thank you.

I do not believe that making short films with older equipment is a
bad thing for the reasons I have stated. Those first couple of
short films do not need to be shot with a DSLR or similar camera
to begin to learn the craft. It’s interesting to me that you think they
do. I feel a director can learn a lot about telling a story visually even
with an old camera.

Different experiences - different advice.
 
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THat's what I was responding to, not a basic blanket topic of "making your first short film."

He's clearly unhappy with the MV750i, and for obvious reasons. No amount of great lighting will satisfy the underlying distaste for deep focused digital video footage of a standard definition flavor when you want your material to look like a "real movie" for lack of a better phrase. And he has a choice not to start with that. If you had a choice to shoot your first material on video or 16mm for a very small price, which would you have done? I guess video... but me? Film.

Now, I'm not saying that anyone is wrong in recommending that he stick with it but I prefaced my post with "I'm sure I'll get in trouble for saying this..." because it was in my working opinion that you do not hobble your process for no efficient or effective reason. I'm okay with people disagreeing with that, and I already knew that someone would passionately.

So all good.

But, unless you just want to be a hobbyist, if you really want to do this stuff then starting out hobbled on purpose is kind of... weird.
 
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Ha where do I start?

First off I appreciate all the comments. I cant really quote each and every one of them but I do truly appreciate all the input and I've noted it down.

The MV750i is really terrible. It's just a bad and outdated cam. I understand the point regarding learning to use the camera and getting experience with it, yet it just seems a little bit pointless considering the footage I will have will not likely be worth anything.

Out of interest how much does a decent "audio kit" cost? It sounds as if it's pretty imperative when using a DSLR cam.

I would really like to get filming as soon as possible but the problem is...I actually have no idea about directing. I dont know if there's a proper method to this stuff or if I just attempt to recreate the vision I have and learn from there?
 
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Billberg said:
The MV750i is really terrible. It's just a bad and outdated cam. I understand the point regarding learning to use the camera and getting experience with it, yet it just seems a little bit pointless considering the footage I will have will not likely be worth anything.
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If you're like myself and others, you will beat yourself to death if you shoot without an adapter or a DSLR at the very least. At the point where you're learning to shoot like "The big boys", you're at least satisfied and a lot of the attention goes to the other things that count like acting, etc.

Out of interest how much does a decent "audio kit" cost? It sounds as if it's pretty imperative when using a DSLR cam.
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For run n'gun jobs (tests, little spec spots) we use a Zoom H4N. It cost about 299.99 and the Audio Tech boom mic cost around 150 I think. You'll need cards and a boom pole, so in the end budget about 600.00 for that.

Ideally, though, if you don't want to be a sound guy... find someone else who's interested in sound and wants to do that. It is the 3rd dimension in motion picture, recognize it earlier on and accept it and try to skimp as little on sound as possible... but, if you aren't trying to do that for a living then you have to ask why are you investing time into doing it yourself versus someone who does want to do it for the rest of their life.

I've learned a lot about sound from friends who are designers and mixers. THis information now helps to inform the way I write as well.

I would really like to get filming as soon as possible but the problem is...I actually have no idea about directing. I dont know if there's a proper method to this stuff or if I just attempt to recreate the vision I have and learn from there?
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Check out a few books, but watch a lot of movies. Directing is pretty simple. It's not easy, and there's a lot involved, but it's more instinct, taste, and problem solving than anything. So, consume content that you respect and like, then just start doing it.
 
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I shot dozens of movies with a terrible camera - much worse then
the MV750. If you need a DSLR then you can’t make a movie until
you get one. You need to wait.

When I made my first ten films I didn’t have a good camera, I
hadn’t read any books on filmmaking, there was no such thing as
the internet but I didn’t let any of that slow me down. I wanted
to make films so I made films with what I had. Which was much less
than you have. And I made a lot of them, learning as I went. Quite
the opposite of feeling behind the curve, when I finally had the use
of a good camera I was completely prepared to make a good film.

Different methods for different people. And I see my method isn’t
what you need. Read some books, watch some movies and save up for
a better camera. When you are ready to make a movie you will make
a movie. You’ve been meaning to start shooting for years now, you
can wait a little longer.

Bill, I see Lennon as your pic. I’m a huge fan - even met him
twice. Do you know what gutiar he used when he formed his first
band? I wonder what would have happened to him if he had waited
until he had a good gutiar?
 
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directorik said:
I shot dozens of movies with a terrible camera - much worse then
the MV750. If you need a DSLR then you can’t make a movie until
you get one. You need to wait.

When I made my first ten films I didn’t have a good camera, I
hadn’t read any books on filmmaking, there was no such thing as
the internet but I didn’t let any of that slow me down.
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Hope this doesnt' come off wrong, but...

...this isn't even the same industry as it was five years ago. It's grown far beyond being forced to shoot with a less than sub par camera because one can't afford anything else. That just isn't the world we live in today.

It also doesn't mean that someone's not ready to make a film because they want better quality tools. A good carpenter can probably use a rock as a hammer, doesn't mean he's not going to go out and buy a gold standard hammer to do his job. And it doesn't make him any less a carpenter for doing that.
 
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I was not and am not talking about the business. I am talking
about a beginning filmmaker who for years has wanted to make a
movie but has not. He has a camera right now. If he makes three
movies with that camera over the summer and gets a DSLR for
Christmas I believe he would not be behind the curve. I believe he
would have a leg up when shooting a movie in January over a
flimmaker who waits until after getting the better camera for Christmas.

We have no argument at all. You feel he should wait until he has
good equipment I feel he should make movies right away. It's clear
Bill agrees with you.
 
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directorik said:
I was not and am not talking about the business. I am talking
about a beginning filmmaker who for years has wanted to make a
movie but has not. He has a camera right now. If he makes three
movies with that camera over the summer and gets a DSLR for
Christmas I believe he would not be behind the curve. I believe he
would have a leg up when shooting a movie in January over a
flimmaker who waits until after getting the better camera for Christmas.

We have no argument at all. You feel he should wait until he has
good equipment I feel he should make movies right away. It's clear
Bill agrees with you.
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I see the disconnect. You keep saying "wait"

What is the wait for? You can get a DSLR at Best Buy in a few hours... then just shoot..

If he said he had to wait 10 months to save up 400.00 to get a DSLR, then yeah, that's a different story.

From the post, I gathered he had something near the amount to get a cheap DSLR that shoots 24P and comes with a kit lens within the next week or two. Then why cripple yourself out of the gate and not just upgrade was my point, if you have the ability to grab something better now.

There isn't any argument, just a misunderstanding of what's being posted. All good.
 
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