ALL PLEASE READ: Would You...

mr-modern-life

mr-modern-life

Okay if a company wanted to self fund a feature film and offered people a chance to 'donate' money (I guess we cant say shares because in the UK you cant do a share issue for this) to make the film happen ,
would you?

1. The film would be an ACTION/MARTIAL ARTS.
2. The Donations would in £5 (around $8.5) with no limitation to how many donations you could make.
3. The idea is 30,000 x £5 donations. Total budget £150k UKP
4. The film has a sales agent attached and signed.
5. The film will be Shot HD.
6. Has a very good international cast & crew attached (credits inc UltraViolet, Da Vinchi Code, Million$, Unleashed, Rush Hour 3 and more).

For the money you would get (at least the following but more the more you donate):

1. A credit on the film and website
2. Discount on film merchanise
3. A general discount with a web retailer like Amazon (possibly even up to the value of £5/$8-9 USD)
4. A Certificate of donation signed by members of the cast & crew
5. Access to speical area of website with exclusive comps and info.
6. If the film doesnt reach it's targets/start production all monies will be paid back with interest accured.
7. A chance to be in the film (run as a comp)
8. Dividen payouts from profits

ALL For £5/around $8-9. Forgetting the legal issues, contracts etc at the moment as this is all hyperthetical at the moment.

So my question is simple... would this be something people would be intersted in ? Would you DONATE a small ammount?
 
I'm wondering about the legalities of it... £5 still sounds like you're selling 'shares'.

I wish something like this was common (it's probably not, I've never heard of anyone doing this) to where you can set up a seperate bank account, have all 'donations' go to this account and simply fund your film from there.

This way, your 'money trail' is simply your bank statement to keep everything legal.

Does something like this exist? Is this even legal?
 
If someone buys shares you probably need to request some sort of i.d. number like a SSN here in the States or a Tax ID number or something.

As for whether or not I would contribute it all depends on the person. If the filmmaker/company has successfully completed a film and has made some sort of return on it I'd be much more open to buy some shares. But if they haven't done anything prior I'd be worried it may be a scam.
 
keep in mind that 30,000 of these at £5 per potentially translates into 30,000 contracts (printing and lawyer costs) + 30,000 of each of the perks in the package that comes with signing. This may leave you no monies with which to make your film. You may need to scale back the kickback on it to dividends, cameos and credits to keep the front-end costs down. I'm sure you can keep this on an investor level (not a lawyer/solicitor) and contract it that way without having to look into the realm of shares and all the extra business legallity that goes with that. It all depends on how you write up the contracts. It may not have been done, but hey...set a precedent and make life easier for the rest of us ;)
 
Okay it is legal depending on how it is set. The idea is to make this less like INVESTMENT and more like DONATIONS.

As I said the idea isn't set, as of yet, but to answer some of the points:

1. The Incentive Package.
These would cost us nothing. Simply we would team up with retailers to give these discounts in return for publicity. The idea is to present teh best value for money so you get to invest in the film plus a bit more.

2. Legal
A contract will be dran up but a simple blanket contract that will be printed out online and returned to us. One solictor cost (which we have free anyways).

The samps used to return the contract would then be donated to charity (it's a nice way to again seem like we are doing this for more for the sake of doing it than the money invested).

3. We are also looking at donating a % of profit to charity, something like MakePovertyHistory or WWF.

4. Trackrecord.
We have had a film released that has turned a small proft (in countries like USA, Cananda, Croatia and about 10 others).

5. Scam
All investors would get access to online bank statements, budget, script, casting and news. A password protected section of the site.

I have looked into this for years and it appears that it can be done.
 
One idea my girlfriend and I are tossing around is to host a "fundraising jamborie" and get some wicked Indie bands (with their respected followings) together and rock donations.
If it's as simple as passing around a jug/hat for cash donations, then you don't have to track it. Just have a few concerts, charge a small entry fee to compensate the band/location rental, and then the rest is gravy.
Compensation could be as simple as filming the concerts and putting it on the DVD with a list of people who signed a guestbook or something. Everyone gets a fun night, indie bands broaden thier fan base, and you walk away with seed money to start off with.
Plus, you get some cool behind the scenes footage and stories for the press kit.
 
Would I donate? If I knew the filmmaker and knew the product was not going to be something I'd be ashamed to have my name associated with... maybe. If I didn't know the filmmaker, definitely not. How would I know that there wouldn't be 'questionable' material in it? I would not want to help fund anything that had graphic nudity or covered a subject matter that I was not comfortable with. If some schmoe I didn't know came knocking at my door asking for money to help fund his/her film, I would most likely assume they were some kind of deadbeat - unless they came with impecable credentials from people I know and respect.
 
MediaHero...

I understand your POV. The best way I can counter this is to say that once the investment is made you would have full access to the script, budget etc and a 14 day cooling off period. If the material was questionable then you could pull out and get a full refund.

the idea is to make a community film that a lot of people can feel involved with. It also then helps because the film will already have an audiance (each of the 10,000 potential investors would know at least 4 people who could see it etc).
 
If you provided a great deal of background info upfront on the director, writer, actors, synopsis, etc, with reviews, articles, info on previous films, etc, then you would probably have a better return - which is probably what you plan on doing. Get a 'notable' name to write you a letter you can quote from. If you could get a friendly news reporter to do a story on your edeavor, that would be helpful, too. I would imagine the more work you do upfront, the better return you'll get - more investors. It's an interesting concept when I think more about it, after my first knee jerk reaction. A nice challenge for a crack PR wizard. It makes me think of that guy who was doing that 'trade' thing on ebay?? A gimmick like that might be a fun and attention-getting way to raise funds.
 
I see websites set up to accept donations like this often and it brings up too many question that can't really be answered.

Even putting all the legal issues aside for the sake of discussion there are too many problems. If 10 or 50 or 100 or even 1,000 people donate and that's it, returning the money could be done in a timely manor. What happens if 10,000 people donate the £5? You've only got £50,000 which isn't enough to make the movie and it would take you months (and a lot of money) to return the donation.

And of course setting a time frame would be a logistical nightmare. Assuming 15,000 people donating. If you set a time frame of 6 months, that's 41 people a day. Think you can really, rally that many people to donate even a small amount of money like £10? Make it a year - do you think you could attract 1,250 people a month for 12 months to reach the 15,000 needed? Assuming that 1 in 10 people contacted or looking at a web site would actually donate, that means you have to reach 12,500 people per month with your pitch. That's about 416 people each day. I wonder if there are that many different people who are interested enough in donating money to a movie maker they've never heard of to even look at a web site or advertisement.

Then there's the credit on the film. Say you get 15,000 people to donate. At even 3 seconds (which is a very fast crawl) 15,000 names would take 12 hours. I suppose you could fit 100 names on one credit card and flash that for 10 seconds - 16 minutes. It seem having a credit on the final film wouldn't be much of an incentive. And a part in the movie? Cool and kind of fun if 10 or 20 people want to walk across the back ground - what if 500 people took you up on that?

I wouldn't be the first to donate, but if you get 14,995 people to donate at least £10, I'll jump in with my £10 and bring on 4 more....
 
directorik said:
I see websites set up to accept donations like this often and it brings up too many question that can't really be answered.

I wouldn't be the first to donate, but if you get 14,995 people to donate at least £10, I'll jump in with my £10 and bring on 4 more....
Click to expand...


Rik - Point by VERY long point :-)

1. It would be written into the deal that if we didnt raise the money we required an option would exisit to make the film on the money we had after a set ammount of time. If you didn't agree with the decision when taken you could take your money back. I feel most people if presented with the plan would say 'hell why not'.

2. Getting The People...
Indie Talk, Talent Circle, Shooting People, Mandy.com, UKScreen. Between them probably have around 250,000 members at LEAST and more people that view.
Empire, SFX, Total Film, Impact & Vengeance have around 250,000 subscribers/readers
Rumour Machine, Kungfucinema.com, Film Asylum get over 75,000 unique hits per month.

And this is a start. Thats almost 600,000 people as a target audiance to start with, of which we need 30,000 donations (some people may give more than £5 so say we need 20,000). Around 5%. Which is still pretty high but this is off a small section of outlets we can reach.

3. Credits
You have a point on teh credits bit. So maybe I'll say you'll get a credit on the DVD and anyone donating over a set amount will get credits on the film. That way we dont have to worry about the timings.

4. Appearing In The film
This would be done as a comp. So we would have say 10 roles to fill and we'd take a random pick of people to fill those roles. Thus making sure each one gets some screen time.

Rik - Will take you up on that!

Seriously though for what amounts to a pack of cigs 'you' (meaning everyone) get a chance to actually be appart of a feature film, with a SUPERB cast and crew, that stands a good chance of getting a worldwide DVD and (in some countries) theatrical release...

Itsn't it worth the 'risk' (not that there is a risk).
 
mr-modern-life said:
4. Appearing In The film
This would be done as a comp. So we would have say 10 roles to fill and we'd take a random pick of people to fill those roles. Thus making sure each one gets some screen time.
Click to expand...

mml -
I'm playing devil's advocate, too, along with directorik...

What if you randomly pick folks from China, Australia, Brazil, UK, .... to appear in your film? Be sure to write in a clause that states transportation to the film set is on them ;)
 
Mr-Modern-Life,

I think you will have more than a hard time doing this. It has been hard to get more than a couple of Indie Filammkers here (who need to keep their own money for their own hard times). How the heck are you going to attract 15,000 people who aren't related to your cause to spend any money on you?

Yiou have created a poorly conceived model that any savy business person will ignore as junk mail.
Why should they help you, someone they do not know or have any tie-in with? Especially if they have no return on investment!

I think you are wasting your time trying to create a white elephant that will tie you down for months, if not years, instead of going about looking for real investors with a real purpose to invest (not give) enough money to shoot your film. Your first post shows a very sketchy "idea" and not a real business plan. Your plan to make donations to a "possible" non-profit organization has not been developedother than another sketchy idea.

You amatuerism is showing big time on this proposal. Your "track record" of one film made that made "some" profit isn't really good enough.

I know I am real tough on you here, but this kind of "idea" (can't call it a real business plan) shows potential investors that Indies aren't professional enough to deserve to approach them. This kind of half-thought through approach hurts the rest of us in the business world.

Some guy tried to sell "Associate Producer" titles on ebay in order to fund his movie. He finally got shut down for trying to sell employment . These new Associates and cast members (actors could "buy" a rolefor specific amounts) didn't have to have any experiences at all...only cash.

This truly smacks of a scam, even iif your intentions are honest. Dump the idea, go back to networking like the rest of us and sell a couple of good scripts in order to fund one film.

Sorry I was hard on you, but I felt it needed to be said. I am NOT encouraging you to quit, other than this idea. Join the rest of us in finding legit investors who get a real ROI with a reasonable risk.

WC
 
Writeum...

1. They will have a return on investment we are just looking at a way to word it. After the money is recouped you would get your stake + a %.

2. I have to say that this is a bit of a hostile answer. This model has worked (nick Love who directed Football factory just funded a feature film like this but with less on offer).

Far from Amatuer this is a proffesional proposal with a film that has sales attached, a named cast (inclduing a major bankable US genre star and several leading UK actors), a named crew etc.

Why does this hurt everyone else? When was the last time you managed to raise finance through offcial channels? The UK has very few and they are locked off to most types of film.

This is a different approach which I'm not sure deserves to be slammed. As for my track record, an indie film that cost $10k and has made way over that in sales and been released in over 14 countries with another 5 in the pipeline, won awards, recorded best sellar DVD sales status and critically aclaimed to boot... well that is quite an achievment. More than most people who post here have achieved (and that's not a dig but a fact).

Far from amatuer, this proposal offers an inovative way for people to get involved in film. What you have here is the bones of the idea... when it's launched it will be backed up by a web site, marketing materials, promotion, tie in's with major companies (such as HMV who we are currently in talks with), a full business plan, contracts and access to all financial records and spending. The film itself is backed by JVC, British Airways and Motorola.

Does this sound like a amatuer idea, or a scam or con? Sounding out the proposal here was so that I could get a general feel and tweak the idea.

If there was money out there to do this any other way we would. But there isnt so you need to think out of teh box. the fact this idea has worked shows it's potential and we have a far better package than those guys did.
 
Writum makes a good point, Modern. There are a lot of scams out there, and I've seen a few film sites asking for donations. But there's no real incentive to donate because there's nothing substantial in return. Also, I think it's hard to get donations through a computer- it's so detached and anonymous on the web.
I'd recommend tweaking the idea so that the website points to a series of events which the filmmakers host. If you can get at least the local people out to these events, you can pitch to them in person, and they'll be a bit more obliged to scrape up the cash. Then, maybe release a video of the "fundraising party" on the website to inspire the web community to buck up and join the progress.

You'd have to be completely transparant, and probably have to start "the funding blog" or something that can be updated daily. It's going to be a hard path man- but I feel your pain. I'm going to be selling cookies, lemonade, car washes, etc, to raise enough money to rent a concert hall and a couple bands to have something along the lines of this. Unconventional funding is really cool- it's nice outside the box.
 
Spatula... the problem with events is that they cost money. And the idea is not to spend to make. We are also working on magzine coverage also.

There will be a contract that will be in place for everyone to sign and a daily (ish) blog etc. It will be open book (bank statements, spending, budget list, business plan etc etc etc)

What we are trying to do is reinvent the wheel and the net is the best place...

If I'm honest, I kinda hoped for a bit more support here. If anyone should be getting behind revloutionary ideas its other filmmakers.
 
unsupportive and critical are two different things...If you want a business venture to succeed, you need to be prepared for dealing with its failings. I've not yet read one post that says "What are you thinking, don't do it." They've all been bringing up possible caveats and perception gaffes.

Being honestly critical of yourself and your business is one of the ways to flesh out all the possible problems in a company or venture before they turn into a financial or legal nightmare.

I've specifically read go for it in many of these posts - after soundings of here is what I see that could prevent you from succeeding. To ignore these things is dooming your business to failure.
 
DISCLAIMER: Do NOT act upon my ideas... I'm just venturing guesses here.

What about opening a new bank account and Paypal account and linking the two. Donations can be made through Paypal, costing very little up front.

Is this what you're trying to accomplish?
 
Knighly - yeah sorry what I meant was I expected the idea to fly better with people simply for the fact we are all (mostly) in the same boat. i guess I just bumed at being called amatuer earlier!

Loud - Kinda. We have that in place but was also thinking of adding donate so people can also donate generally without anything else.
 
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