editing Advice on doing ADR.

H

harmonica44

My my short film, the sound guy left the production before shooting, and I wasn't able to find a replacement. I was forced to do most of it so far without a person to hold the mic, cause the people I did get to hold it, either did not hold and aim it properly enough, or they couldn't keep quiet and made too much noise that got recorded. One person holding the mic kept constantly laughing and couldn't stop. I tried disciplining them as best I could but I had to start shooting and get it done in time, with or without live sound recording. Some of the sound might be usable but I'll have to clean it up first to know.

So I'm pretty much forced to redo all of it with ADR. I don't have access to one of those rooms, to block out all the unwanted background noise, but I'm looking. Should I not be able to get one, what's the best way to mimic the original room noise of that scene, since a persons voice sounds different in one room, than another.

Another thing is getting the actors to talk like they are actually acting, rather than just trying to get the lines right. Any advice on making this easier?


One more thing. I have two mics. The NTG-3 and the 4053b. Ones a hyper and ones a shotgun, but with the actors talking that close into them, there is hardly a different it seems. If talking that close, is one mic better than the other for ADR? Thanks.
 
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Most ADR/VO studios use a multiple mic set-up, and have a large varied selection of very nice mics. The reason is that for ADR they like to use the same make/model of mic that was used on the set.

First, you have to keep in mind that the fact that the best Production Sound Mixers and Boom-Ops with the best equipment available were used on location, so the production sound is usually top notch. This being the case, you have to keep in mind that at the "Hollywood" level it is very unusual to use ADR for entire scenes (unless of course it's an action scene where they plan on doing ADR before the scene is even shot). Even that is not 100% true; although they may record the ADR for the entire scene, the rerecording mixer(s), in conjunction with the director, may only replace one word or one line. You see, dialog editors and rerecording mixers have some truly amazing tools at their disposal to eliminate noise and audio artifacts, so those are tried first before going to the ADR tracks, and, in fact, select dialog from the unused takes is also available to the rerecording team and those are preferred to ADR.

Now, the ADR process at that level - besides the facilities having the best equipment and software money can buy - takes place in very large studios that are sonically isolated and have proper sound treatment. Every actor works in the way most comfortable for the actor. Most just stand in front of the mics and perform their lines while watching the visuals. Some, however, re-enact the scene to a moderate degree and a boom-op is used exactly the same as on the set.

As for your room-tone; just grab a few minutes with the set-up you're using to record the ADR - mic, preamp/mixer, recorder. If you've read my other posts you know that you'll also be doing Foley, sound FX and building an ambience for the scene. The idea is to keep the dialog smooth, consistent and believable. At the mix you'll be adding a reverb of some kind to everything to give it all a sense of space not to mention using EQ to eliminate unwanted frequencies, enhance other frequencies and blend the various parts into a whole.
 
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Good advice. I've gone through all the audio and I think as long as I can get one actor back to reshoot part of a scene and make him look all the same, that will save on some dubbing. I think if the audio I have is good enough, then I will only have to ADR three scenes. Two action scenes, which I would have had to ADR pretty much anyway, and one scene, where I was unable to get a competent boom holder for the day. But that should be it.

So I will see about getting the actors to just say their lines in the best performance mode, and then take each syllable and match it up then.
 
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You should really try to fix it as much as you can by using noise reduction & EQ, and by using dialog from the unused takes before you resort to ADR.

BTW, are you checker boarding the dialog? That goes a long way towards showing what is salvageable and what needs ADR.
 
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Sorry I am new to this but what does checker boarding mean in this context? I couldn't find a definition. And yes I am using dialogue from different takes. It's mainly the scene where I couldn't get a quiet boom holder that needs to have ADR done completely, plus the action scenes, where it needs done anyway.
 
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Checker boarding is putting the dialog for each character onto a separate track, and the space between gets its own track as well. Then you add it the room tone track.

Have you read Purcels "Dialog Editing" yet? Its all in there.
 
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I'm waiting for the book on my order along with some other items. Thanks. And to answer Gorrillamike's post, I hope I'll be done by January, just have to find two replacement actors and shoot one last scene. At this point I will not try to come up with a release date yet, as I still might want to score the film afterwords too.
 
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How much time do you spend on a typical project?

On a typical dramatic feature, I'll spend between 250 – 300 hours editing the dialogue and ADR.
Click to expand...

This quote pertains to feature films, but for a 120 minute feature the math works out to 2 to 2.5 hours of work per linear minute of film; and remember that the film is not wall to wall dialog. You also have to remember that a large part of the time the production sound is recorded by the best in the biz, so he is working with quality production sound tracks. A third thing to remember is that the donkey work - organizing the alternate/unused takes, back-ups, etc. - is done by an assistant or intern, and that the ADR recording is also not included. And, as he mentions in the interview, this also does not include dialog pre-dubs or the mix.

So for a ten minute short it works out to 20 to 25 hours of work by an extremely knowledgeable, experienced professional working with the most current high-end audio tools available plus the donkey work plus the pre-dubs and the mix. That's what it takes to get great sounding dialog.
 
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Good posts Alcove. (the first two or three - I didn't read the whole thread.)
Kinda makes me wish I was learning it all again for the first time. :)

Sony Vegas evolved from Acid? Or from Soundforge? (Sony did buy sonic foundry at some point, right?) I remember playing with acid when they did free versions along with those remix competitions. Kind of a cool program. Then I got into the old Emagic Logic and completely lost track of most other sequencers. Interesting to find that's what became of it.


I guess I could say something ON topic though, huh?
First thing I thought of when you mentioned this was the original "Saw" movie.
I can't remember the exact scene - something in a bedroom - but listen to it with headphones.. the dialogue is absolutely jarring. It's liked gated and compressed or something. Whatever you do - make sure it's for the better. eek!
 
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Acid was a stand-alone program, then evolved into a "background" program for DAWs and other audio softwares.

Vegas started out a MIDI sequencer and then became an audio editing program (like Digital Performer and others) when digital audio for the "masses" first appeared. When NLEs first appeared Vegas added rudimentary video editing just around the time it was purchased by Sony.
 
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hmm.. I don't remember Vegas before video.. but then I don't think I knew what MIDI was at the time..

I got into it somewhere between when computers were used for sequencing MIDI for remote samplers and when multi-tracking audio became feasible.. but it's all rather vague because I was just learning. I do remember wishing my 256k of ram was 512 though. hah. Oh the things I could do with that extra 256k.

My first workstation: A compaq presario and windows sound recorder. Opened a couple of default theme wavs and stretch, reverse, cut and mixpasted my way to minute and a half masterpieces.. ah.. those were the days.. luckily a couple years later I discovered the concept of melody.

I'm rambling and highjacking the thread. ahem. sorry.
as you were.
 
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If you try to match the reverb of a room you only get one chance. Another option is to record ADR in a dry room (with acoustic tiles all over the place), then use reverb effects to match the environment that you need. Often it takes 3 reverb patches to do it.
The best method to work with talent is to play short lines over about 2 or 3 times, then roll and record 3 to 5 times. Later you edit it all together, picking out the best takes and bits.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
So for a ten minute short it works out to 20 to 25 hours of work by an extremely knowledgeable, experienced professional working with the most current high-end audio tools available plus the donkey work plus the pre-dubs and the mix. That's what it takes to get great sounding dialog.
Click to expand...
Wow.

What a relief to hear.
I've consistently spent what seems like to me a bizarre amount of time on audio post construction relative to final screen minute of product.

My respect for this side of the biz continues to grow.
Audio is truly under-appreciated aspect of filmmaking.
 
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Blade_Jones said:
Often it takes 3 reverb patches to do it.
Click to expand...

An IR reverb like Altiverb - which is what I use - does a fantastic job of emulating rooms. I choose something close and start tweaking.

Blade_Jones said:
The best method to work with talent is to play short lines over about 2 or 3 times, then roll and record 3 to 5 times. Later you edit it all together, picking out the best takes and bits.
Click to expand...

Each actor will be different; you find the way that works best for them.
 
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