A producer's nightmare-- problem actors

[narcissus]

I have been working on a low budget feature for +3 years... in fact, the first day of shooting was 3 years ago this week (June 17, 2002). On this first day of shooting, the DAT machine broke-- and there was no usable dialogue.

So I continued to shoot the film and hoped that I could edit around and dub... fix it in post. I had no other choice since I had a very strict deadline to complete shooting (limited access to locations and the place I was staying which was the primary location).

I began post a few weeks after wrapping. Several months later it became appearant that other scenes were needed.

So I contacted the actors and crew and got together another shoot the following summer. We shot for several days straight during the summer then one day per weekend because of their schedules. I also began to film another project with the actors simultaneously because of the limited access to locations. The actors' moods had noticably changed from the first shoot, however-- they began to complain about the pay ($480 per day on a low budget indie...) and the heat and the cars and the air,,,, but otherwise the shooting was going along well.

Then in mid September 2003, the actors showed up +90minutes late to one shoot, and have not shown up to any shoot since. I have scheduled 3 shoots since, and given them over 20 days notice (the contract specifies that I give them at least 2 days)-- still they were no-shows.

I sent many many emails and waited and waited... nothing. Then after sending several legal threats, was told to speak to one's agent. So I called and emailed him. He asked if I would pay airfare for the shoot. I agreed,, (though I am not contractually obligated to do so). Several days later I was told that the actor was not available for my project.

So I had an attorney review their contracts. He said they are valid and it is clear that they must appear if I give them 2 or more days' notice... So he wrote them each a letter asking them to contact me to resume filmming. Nothing from one,, only a non-working phone number from the other.

I was advised to not include any names because this information may harm the actors, and I will yield to that despite the fact that their actions are interfering with my ability to finish my film. This has been the case for over 20 months now of them not showing up for 1 day of neccessary reshoots. I do not believe it is libelous for me to post provable facts about someone interfering with my business. If I were making false claims to harm them I could be opening myself up for a suit against myself-- I have no desire to do that. Right now, I'm trying to gain some other perspectives and to hopefully help other people to avoid going through the same unneccessary trama.

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions ???


Thanks,


JB

(edit; punctuation)

 

[clive]

All very interesting, but, being right and being smart aren't the same thing.

And the truth is that being a producer is about being smart.

You asked what advice we might have to solve the problem without litegation. Well, you're not going to like it, but here it is.

1) Completely give up on your public vendetta and delete any postings where you've named names. (At the moment one google search will completely destroy your chances of ever completing this film)

2) Call up the agents of the actors involved and ask to set up an informal meeting between you, the agent and the actors. Tell the agent you just want to get any problems that the actors may have out in the open and that you are there to listen. Tell the agent that your really just want to work this out like civilised people. Make sure thatyou suggest that the meeting happens at the agent's office, make sure that you're prepared to do all the travelling and do the meeting at a time that works for them.

3) Go to that meeting, dress casually (Do NOT power dress), shake everyone's hand and make eye contact when you do it, smile in an open and friendly way. DO NOT glower at them, DO NOT give off any hostile signals. If you don't think you can do that get someone else to do the meeting for you. (Hell, pay my airfare and $1000 a day and I'll do it for you) Plus take someone from the production team with you, the least threatening person you have and make sure that they know their job is to listen and nothing else.

4) When the meeting starts, say the following "Guys, I know that this film hasn't been an easy process for anyone and after all the work and effor that you've put in, I just really want to see it completed now. But, I can't do that if you're not happy, so I'm here to listen. I've got nothing but respect for you guys, tell me what the problems are and I'm just going to listen. I want you to be compeletly straight with me, don't worry about my feelings. I'm just here to listen to you to find out if there is anything we can do to salvage this project. And even if we can't I'd like to feel that you got a chance to tell me how you feel" (It would be good if you actually meant what you are saying, sincerity rocks in these situations)

5) Then SHUT UP AND STAY SHUT UP NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY, NO MATTER HOW ANGRY THEY GET. Listen to them and when they say their piece repeat what they've said back to them so they know that you've heard and understood.

6) Whatever they say take full responsibilty and apologise and do it sincerely.

7) In the course of their talking to you they will tell you what they need to hear from you. The trick is to say it..l. The killer phrase is "So, what you're saying is that if can get the whole thing wrapped in two days guaranteed and I pay you a bonus you'd be happy. That's incredibly generous of you (No sarcasm here). Look, how about if I wrap in two days, give you the bonus and also fly you out first class. I'd really like to do that for you, because nothing matters more to me than you guys being happy in your work, that's why I cast you in the first place."

(In other words always give them more than they asked for, nobody expects that and at that point they're endebted to you, they can't refuse)

Make sure that you keep every promise and treat them like royality when they come on set, get the film finished and make sure they are your best friends by the end of the shoot.

9) If for whatever reason they aboslutely refuse to work with you to finish the picture, do not threaten them, do not mention their contracts, just thank them for their time and then ask to get a minute alone with their agent. Say this "Thanks Marla, I really appreciate the time you've taken today to pull this meeting together. Look, I need to go home now and look at what my options are, can you pull together a letter for me outlining your clients position and post it out to me." Shake her/his hand and leave it at that. When you get back home go talk to your lawyer and let them take it from there.

10) Oh, if they say that they'd only complete the film if you promise not to be on set and that they'll be working with another director, fire yourself and hire someone in. (Airfare and $1,500 a day, thanks)

Personally, I'd give less than 20% odds that you'll do this, because the bottom line is that at this point you'd rather be right than complete your film. The question is what's most important, your pride or the film?

 

[narcissus]

what you KEEP doing, is pushing this in our faces.

Okay-- I appreciate that, but I am just defending my position. I have been accused of defamation and other things which I don't believe are true or fair.

Also, I don't believe that asking them to appear for 1 day of neccessary reshoots in over 20 months is unreasonable.

 

[narcissus]

1) Completely give up on your public vendetta and delete any postings where you've named names.

There have been no real names listed in this thread-- no names appear on any websites in any way related to this issue that I know of.

Also I have already done much of what you have suggested-- I have talked to the agent directly without hostility, and I offered to pay them and pay for the airfare, and they declined the offer with no reason given. (except it was not in person).

I appreciate your post-- I will reread it, and will try what I haven't tried yet. I apologize if I am looking like a hardhead about this-- I've been put on the defensive here and have basically been forced to defend and validate my arguement. I don't consider it a vendetta-- just a notice to others.

EDIT; (punctuation)

 

[Spatula]

Dude! You're doing it again!
Listen to Clive... his post outlined EXACTLY what you need to do! Him is a smart man!

I understand your frustration, Narc! But you are letting your anger get the best of you! It's time to cool down, take a long walk, think a bit, and figure out WHAT YOU WANT!

Clive has basically outlined what you need to do, to finish your project.

From your point of view, you're saying "Oh, it's only ONE more day"... but what about the actors? They probably think "OH GOD! ONE MORE DAY? We put in 20 months of work, and he needs me AGAIN?!?! I need to move on to other projects!!!"

The thing is... no matter the contract... you have to respect and appreciate the actorsin order to get them to DO YOU A FAVOR by coming back.

You can save warning other people when someone else calls you for a reference on the actors, if they ever get hired again! Right now, you have to focus on kissing some ass, biting the bullet, and getting your film DONE!!!

Good luck, and please, take heed of the advice given to you!!

 

[narcissus]

Spatula,

I absolutely agree with and am appreciative of his suggestions and yours. I will do whatever I can to follow these suggestions.

EDIT; I do not believe "anger" is a part of any of my posts here. This situation has been frustrating at times, and I'm thankful that I've received some positive suggestions.

From your point of view, you're saying "Oh, it's only ONE more day"... but what about the actors? They probably think "OH GOD! ONE MORE DAY? We put in 20 months of work, and he needs me AGAIN?!?! I need to move on to other projects!!!"

One quick correction though-- it has been a 20 month wait for 1 day of reshooting (was originally scheduled in Sept 2003). I apologize if I worded that wrong.

 

[Nique Zoolio]

Good luck. Its nice to see so many people take time out and offer help so many times over. Its good to see that we all want to help each other, and so passionately too. Its times like these I'm glad this site exists

 

[spinner]

...Narcissus...

Here are some fundamental truths: First, contract or no, you can't make anyone do anything they don't want to do. Second, the only thing you really control is your own behavior.

...you seem to be waaaaayyyy less indie than many of us, I think many of us are at a point where the actors we deal with are just this side of little theater. Since this appears not to be the case with you, I think you might want to take the advice you are being given

...If you want to be on the board and rant, fine. As you see, there are many people who will listen...(uh, you should listen a little, too). You can find encouragement and people who will give you a good talking to as well.

...but first and foremost: don't put anymore details big or small on this site. You are taking a huge risk when you do. I know that and I am not nearly as connected as you seem to be. Don't jeopardize your case.

...secondly, right or wrong, vendetta or not, what you are pissed and you might want to cool off a little before you do anything else. Nobody thinks well when they are mad. You have to take the reins and do what is the smartest thing to do so that you can get your film done and keep your career intact.

No one is really accusing you of defamation. We are trying to stop you from the possibility of defamation.

It is normal to want to defend yourself and have people understand your side. Understand that even as emphatic as this thread is, the advice is to protect you. So, take a break, I don't know, sleep late, something that will allow you to look at the situation clearly, and don't lie to yourself about what happened whatever it is. Try to do something to calm yourself down because if you go in there crazy, people will think you are crazy. Show them that you are trying to rectify the situation and that you are a calm cool thinking person that they can reason with. Then your lawyers can deal with the legalities.

...You need to be more careful and at the core of all this, that is what we are trying to tell you....

--spinner

 

[narcissus]

I appreciate that and am not posting anymore (unless there are corrections to be made).

Thanks for putting up with my postings (which are appearantly being interpretted by some as rants...),,, for those who did

 

[spinner]

...there are good people here who will listen, they know what they are talking about. At least I am convinced of that. They are here if you need to blow off some steam. Just not the details of what your legal stuff will be entailing. Its the safest thing to do. Look around and try to enjoy the site. (Don't feel like everyone on your case). Try to keep us posted (as safely as you can) as to how things are progressing and good luck. You are going to need it...

--spinner

 

[narcissus]

good luck. You are going to need it...

Okay, thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

[spinner]

Okay, thanks for the vote of confidence.

...Oh, don't be like that I only meant that you seem to have your work cut out for you...and that wasn't a slam. I assume you kind of know what you are doing, you just are to mad to be objective....And any legal situation gives me the willies (so thats me, not you).

...I think you seem to have all the confidence you will need and that is a good thing considering what you have posted. What should I have said? Good Luck, loser? I think that if you are in the right, (and understand that when you only have one side of the story, you only have one side.) then those who are contracted need to live up to their side of the bargain. But they will be more likely to do that when you are calm, cool, collected and in control.

...I am assuming that you haven't made any enemies here, just people telling you to put on the brakes a little so that you don't shoot yourself in the foot....what good would that do you?

...so, take this in the spirit it was given...and Good luck... ...its hard not to be alittle touchy when you feel you are right. We really are trying to help...

--spinner

 

[narcissus]

...Oh, don't be like that I only meant that you seem to have your work cut out for you...and that wasn't a slam.

Okay thank you very much for clarifying that.

I guess I've been assuming I am making some enemies here. For that, I truly apologize. I literally never intended anyone any harm. Yes, I have tried to defuse a potential bomb with gunpowder-- but I hope that all of my actions are understood for their true intent-- that is to stop the games, finish the film, pay the actors well for their efforts, and praise them publically (and privately) instead of being stuck in gripe-gear.

Also, I would also like to give *thank you* credits to everyone who has contributed to this discussion (if they so chose to be credited) if the film is successfully completed.

 

[clive]

I guess I've been assuming I am making some enemies here.

Not at all. Indietalk isn't that kind of forum. I think your gunpowder/fire analogy is right on the mark. Don't give yourself a hard time about it though, it's almost impossible to keep your cool when there is so much at stake.

One thing I think you might want to consider is whether there is a way of completing the film without the scenes that you need with these actors.

It's always good to have a contingency plan and in my experience there is always an alternate and often better way of telling the story.

If you can complete in one day's shooting, you can't have more than three or four scenes that you want, why not go back to the script and see if there is another way of doing it. There will be, I guarantee it.

The great thing about doing this is that it's a creative solution rather than a legal one (always good) and it takes the pressure off your negotiations because at that point you don't NEED the actors, you just want them. That strenghtens your negotiating position considerably.

The bottom line is that at the moment you feel they have the power to prevent you from finishing your movie and you can take that power back by doing what you do best which is being creative. (This has to be true or you wouldn't have got to this point)

If you absolutely can't find a way to do it, e-mail the script to me and I'll throw a day at it for you (for free)

 

[Spatula]

Or shemp them!!!!


(for those unaware of the power of shemping, it was a term derived from the three stooges, when "Joe" and "Shemp" came in to sub for another stooge. Can't remember the details on that, but Sam Raimi coined the term when he would have actors stand in for other ones. He listed them as "Shemps" in the credits. There's so possibly accurate history for you!)

 

[directorik]

The Stooges (Moe, Larry, and Shemp... oh, and often Curly... then there's also Curly Joe... etc.) would often use whatever standing sets were available from the A pictures being made at Columbia to make their B, short pictures. They'd do this in such a fashion where they'd shoot all the principal photography, and do the pick-up shots much later on. Allowing them to work on mutlitple projects at one time. The shorts were in black and white, and the Stooges never changed much, so they were easy to intercut. Well, poor Shemp Howard died before they had actually finished off a few of these shorts. Eventually, Moe and Larry had to go back and complete these things without Shemp. In order to do this they used a stand-in, a fake Shemp, and then would proceed to work him out of the scene in some cheesy manner. Rami found this to be hilarious, and adopted the term "Fake Shemp" into his own super 8's, and eventually their feature films, to mean anyone whose face you didn't see. Someone in heavy make-up, a hand, a foot, someone who doesn't have lines -- the stand-in's and extras.

 

[Spatula]

There ya go! Don't believe my lies! The truth is out there now!

 

[narcissus]

I think your gunpowder/fire analogy is right on the mark. Don't give yourself a hard time about it though, it's almost impossible to keep your cool when there is so much at stake.

I have an update-- after starting this thread, I received emails from a representative of the actress who says she is willing to resume filmming. The emails were out of the blue-- hopefully this communication will go well and hopefully she will fulfill her contract. Both of the actors are talented, and I would like to be given the opportunity to reward their participation. That is my primary motivation here-- again I apologize if my method has been inappropriate.

One thing I think you might want to consider is whether there is a way of completing the film without the scenes that you need with these actors.... The great thing about doing this is that it's a creative solution rather than a legal one (always good) and it takes the pressure off your negotiations because at that point you don't NEED the actors, you just want them. That strenghtens your negotiating position considerably.

I'm glad you brought that up-- I've been writing some plot variations-- still trying to find variations without either of them in a worst worst case scenario. Will continue over the weekend. These are all excellent points that you've brought up-- thank you again very much.

If you absolutely can't find a way to do it, e-mail the script to me and I'll throw a day at it for you (for free)

Thank you very very much for your offer, Clive That is very cool and generous of you. I'll see what I come up with and let you know.


And to Spatula and Directorik-- Fake Shemps are an excellent idea as well

Also, I should say that it's not exactly like I've been waiting without being able to do anything else-- I've edited the film thus far (including 7 minutes of material to cross-cut with the scenes to add), done over 100 visual effects shots, edited and mixed the dialogue, sound effects, and soundtrack over this time-- there are simply scheduling dilemmas I cannot control which are making it imperative to move on this soon, for everyone's benefit.

Thanks again !

 

[seunosewa]

The key point is that your actors were complaining about (1) the pay and (2) the working conditions, and you simply refused to listen to them. So they bailed. Sounds fair enough!

 

[narcissus]

Sounds fair enough!

not really...

they agreed to the pay, and only started complaining about that months after they stopped showing up. I don't know how it is in Nigeria, but simply complaining/whining does not mean you are legally entitled to back out of a contract in the USA.

they NEVER made any formal arrangements or any clear requests to renegotiate the pay. they just whined on set, showed up late, and stopped showing up.

also, there was no actual request made about the working conditions. it's not my fault if an actor all of the sudden develops a problem with sitting in a car to deliver their lines of dialogue. no real problem was made clear-- only 4th grader-esque whining. I hired adults for a reason... not for them to back out of a professional shoot just because they act like 4 year olds.

I wasn't asking anything of them that is remotely difficult (to deliver lines of dialogue in a car). actors are/were paid to act. it is not okay for them to just decide they don't want to do that towards the end of filmming a movie. is that difficult to understand ?

 

[seunosewa]

Hmmm. Depends on the contract, I guess.
But the problem has been cleared up, right?
(as you mentioned in a different thread?)
I'd love to see what the final product looked like.