By Hollywood standards, I guess the Red is the ultimate poor-man's camera. But I'm considering the possibility (likelihood) that I won't be able to afford it. I haven't entirely ruled-out the 5D or another DSLR, but I'm hoping to avoid that. This looks like a nice alternative, and would probably be affordable to rent:
http://vimeo.com/32067654
As of right now I'm trying to work some magic to get an early C300. Although I do shoot RED (MX and Epic now), I am highly interested in checking out the C300 for reasons that I'll outline in a moment.
This camera looks like it's going to be awesome. Have you seen the price tag though? It costs about the same (maybe a tad more) to get this as it does a shooting RED Scarlet.
So, right now, the price hasn't been firmed. There're a lot of numbers bouncing around but it seems like it's going to be in the 15K range. Now, how does that compare to Scarlet?
Scarlet will cost a base amount of 15-16K as well, after taxes, to get anything close to a shooting package. But let us weigh what you will not be able to do with Scarlet at that amount: run and gun.
You need at least 6 batteries and two chargers to be able to sustain with scarlet, or a power tap at all times.
One 64Gb Card will be a pretty pain in the behind for those who want to shoot narrative, no matter how you slice it. It's workable, but I would never got into a shooting situation without at least two. Check the prices on Scarlet Media lately?
Speaking of Scarlet Media, shooting off 64Gb chunks at a time means you're going to spend more money storing the footage afterward, and redundancy.
You know what the expense of C300 exxtra batteries and cards are? Knowing Canon? I'd say 150 per battery and for some Sandisk CF Cards? 50.00 a pop. You could be running six cards on a low budget and never have to offload during the day.
Shot for Shot, the C300 will be cheaper to purchase and rent.
We talked a lot about the pros and cons in the release night thread, but it's a long one. My summary (of my opinion) is that the Scarlet is better for a feature, though harder to work with the files in post. Still a lot more potential though, and te RED name carries some weight.
It is a bit harder, but not that hard honestly. It's just 4K, a decent editing rig and Premiere will chop through Redcode 4K pretty easily. Finishing the project will be expensive, though. But, finishing any project can be so that's not really a factor, IMO.
The biggest downside of the C300 is that it's only 1080p. While lower resolution movies have secured theater distribution in the past, 1920x1080 is a little low-res for theater screens. The Sarlet can do up to 2K in HDRx mode or up to 4k at standard 24p. Pretty impressive considering the price tag.
Alright... so let's visit this. It's interesting that people think this is a downside, but I understand why: paper talk. Meaning, people see a larger number and think that larger is better, but the truth isn't on paper.
The C300's image is derived from a 3.8K sensor (true 4K sort of) in a way that makes the 1080 coming out of that camera every bit as resolute and sharp as a post-converted, down-rezzed 4K image from RED MX and I am pretty sure, Scarlet at 4K.
I'd be willing to bet hard cash on this.
What is Redcode 4K? It's actually 3.2K, not 4K. To get 4K from RED you need to shoot 5K, which the Scarlet only does @ 12FPS. Effectively, Scarlet is a very good camera for 2K@24P. I guess if you want to say that you have a 4K master, then sure. You could do that. The resolution in comparison to true 4K systems (Epic and Sony's 8K Camera) will show you that it's not the case.
Furthermore, let's talk about frame rates: Scarlet shoots 4K@30P, 3K@48P, 2K@60P, 1K@120P.
On the surface, this looks pretty awesome. Again, paper talk. Because, @ 3K you're shooting a GH2 sized (about) image, effectively losing the real-estate of your lenses and you're taking a quality hit when digging into the OLPF.
2K@60P will get you a 2/3" sensor sized image. Even more of a quality hit.
1k@120P is youTube status.
To get the most out of Scarlet, you'll need Super16mm lenses for 3K and 2K modes, and neither of those modes are 4K worthy. At the end of the day, as mentioned, the Scarlet's a good 2K@24P/30P camera.
People will begin to understand this as they use it and become frustrated that Scarlet really is a b-Cam for Epic.
The C300 shoots increments from 1 to 30 in 1080, and then increments from 1 to 60 in 720P. What it does not force you to do is crop your sensor to do so.
In that sense, and knowing the 720P mode or 1080i/60i modes will resolve plenty for a 1080P blow up/master, I'd prefer to have the C300 at my side.
Shooting a serial or something you have to edit ASAP and continually, the Canon wins. Those files are similar to current DSLR files edit wide, just way more pretty.
Now... about serials and features between Scarlet and C300. Let's put this out there: The Scarlet will not be as clean or as easy to work with in a feature film scenario where you do not have ample lighting to cover your ass.
I shot Superseeds on a pair of RED MX's @ 4.5K (a mode that scarlet does not have) and I expect it to slightly (very slightly) out perform MX cameras at 4K and 4K HD/QHD. In my experience, and just about anyone who ritually shoots RED will tell you this, the camera is not your friend unless you are feeding it crack--or light.
On our biggest day I had a 10 ton grip truck outside, thousands of watts of light, so on and so forth and there still wasn't enough light to clean up the image. At the end of the day, I am very thankful that 4K isn't the distro standard, because that entire scene will benefit from heavy denoising and being 2K.
The C300 will, for lack of a punchier descriptor, eat Scarlet's face when it comes to shooting on a budget. No questions asked. This is exactly why I want to shoot C300 for my next feature, as it's going to be experimental and I am using the smallest lighting package I have ever attempted.
This is the primary reason why the C300 is the tool for no-budget filmmakers. When you are short on light, and patience, this camera will allow you to continue to create on few candles.
To answer your final question, since if you couldn't afford a Scarlet then you probably couldn't afford this... I'd go 5D, it's the only camera with the cine look that's legitimately cheaper.
However, Paul is right: if you can't afford to buy a Scarlet you probably can't afford to buy a C300.
ANd back to the main question:
Or, let me ask it this way -- if you wanted to make a movie that you want to get into theaters, but you couldn't afford the Red, what would you shoot on?
The reality of it is that the camera really doesn't make a difference as to who gets into theaters or who doesn't. Granted, don't go and shoot SD or you'll just... shoot yourself in the foot, but we've already gotten plenty of proof that the 7D is good enough for a big screen sale.
I agree with Paul, with an added vote for a hacked GH2. If I do not get a C300, I will probably be shooting the next feature on a pair of hacked GH2's with PL Glass. Although this will cost more to do than it would cost for me to shoot Epic (which I'll use if I need slow-mo), I'm going for experimental and I know first hand that the GH2 will blow-up plenty fine for a projected release. Especially digital projection.
The 5D's advantage is sensor-size. Something I used to hate, but now embrace. If you're shooting on location (in your friends bedroom) being able to squish against a wall and still shoot wide with the 5D means you get a much more traditional, cinematic image. That's a good thing to have in our situation.
With the GH-2, I'm currently testing Super16 lenses which gives me the ability to shoot a 5.8/T2.4 without distortion. It's amazing, and fast, and would still give me the cinematic look that I'd be looking to shoot. THe set also is mostly comprised of T1.8's, which is stupid fast--means DOF will equal S35 DOF at the same focal lengths and distances, and F-Stops.
The Hack, basically, is incredible. I think it's the best sub 10K image your money can buy. Although I have to use ETC to be able to use S16 lenses, I did try the hack on a 25mm/T1.8 without ETC mode (crop mode) enabled and was floored by the results.
This is exactly why I'm going GH2 and PL Glass for the next feature.
Maybe renting that camera would be a smart choice.
