I got a call from a producer in town today asking me if i was intrested in being a PA on their feature film. I am intrested but he said "im warning you though, there isn't much pay" which pretty much means i would be working for three weeks for free. he also said "its all for the love man, its all for the love of film." almost like he was exploiting film, like i would do it if i loved film. i was thinking of asking for like a point, 1% of the profits, is it worth doing for no pay? is it too much to ask for a point? ive done PA jobs before so its not like im desperate for this one but it is always good to be on a set.
A Feature Film PA job with no pay?
- Thread starter iuhoosier336
- Start date
iuhoosier336 said:
Call him up and demand $50/day to $75/day because you are a great PA. One experienced paid PA is worth 5 unpaid inexperienced PA's.
If he keeps on with his "love of film" bullshit, say this calmly into the phone:
"I am excited about your project, but I have experience on other shows and if you can't pay 75 dollars per day then I have other projects to consider."
He will probably promote you to 2nd AD.
Do not negotiate for points, they are meaningless, as even insanely profitable productions can hide net points from sucka-investors, crew, and the IRS - by charging print and advertising costs against the books to make the film break-even or a "loss".
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I agree, but my version of the above advice is
"Hey I'd really like to do your project, sounds just interesting. Look, my normal day rate as a PA is $300 a day, I can't come out for three weeks for free, but if you can pay me $100 a day so I can pay my bills, I'll take the rest of my rate on a deferment."
"Hey I'd really like to do your project, sounds just interesting. Look, my normal day rate as a PA is $300 a day, I can't come out for three weeks for free, but if you can pay me $100 a day so I can pay my bills, I'll take the rest of my rate on a deferment."
3 weeks as a PA on a set if you know what you are doing... if I was working for Spielberg and I was really really good I might ask for $200 a day, but if this is some low budget thing Id ask for $50-$100 a day.
You might also want to know whether its a set PA or a gofer. A gofer you should make sure he's willing to cover your expenses (gas) as well. Nothing like driving all over Hollywood on your dime!
50 x 18 = $900. 100 x 18 = $1800.
You might also want to know whether its a set PA or a gofer. A gofer you should make sure he's willing to cover your expenses (gas) as well. Nothing like driving all over Hollywood on your dime!
50 x 18 = $900. 100 x 18 = $1800.
I often use unpaid PA's. But never for the run of the show. Three weeks of 14 hour days for no pay? I would never ask that of anyone.
If I were you, I'd agree to give him 3 days - or one week if you're really generous - for free. If he likes your work he can afford $50/day. That's $3.75 ah hour. Maybe $4.16 if you stick to 12 hour days.
But if you're willing to work for free, go a head and ask for a back end point. Since very few movies ever see profits after the investors, cast, crew, overhead and expenses are paid back, a back end point won't mean a thing to the producer - he knows he'll never have to pay it.
If I were you, I'd agree to give him 3 days - or one week if you're really generous - for free. If he likes your work he can afford $50/day. That's $3.75 ah hour. Maybe $4.16 if you stick to 12 hour days.
But if you're willing to work for free, go a head and ask for a back end point. Since very few movies ever see profits after the investors, cast, crew, overhead and expenses are paid back, a back end point won't mean a thing to the producer - he knows he'll never have to pay it.
Interesting thread, I didn't know that rates for crew were so cheap in the US. I couldn't hire a runner for less than £125 a day here and still be OK with the union, that's roughly $250 a day.
What's the going rate for an experienced DOP over there? I'd expect to pay £500/$1000 dollar a day at a minimum.
What's the going rate for an experienced DOP over there? I'd expect to pay £500/$1000 dollar a day at a minimum.
clive said:
You can put together a pretty good crew with everyone (including the DP) on at $75 to $100 per day. At low pay - in my opinion - it's better to put even the DP and the PA on the same scale - the DPs I've worked with just want a break from industrial/corporate work and the egalitarianism helps the PA guarding a truck at 3am stick around.
But Troma is shooting in Buffalo soon where hardly anyone is getting paid except for the DP - as there are plenty of 18-25 year olds ready and willing to spend their summer being exploited
Union shows & commercial work is a whole other deal of course.
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It’s a PA position. Don’t ask for more than $50 - $100 per day. Points (and deferment to a lesser extent) are meaningless because how will you know if you’re due anything unless the producer tells you? Don’t do it for free, but don’t sweat it too much. Ask for enough that it will not be a hardship for you. You can deduct the costs from your taxes also (if you are hired as a contractor which is likely) and you can actually deduct more if you have a savvy accountant. I’d suggest doing something like this: Say your day rate is normally $150 per day, but you’ll give him a 34% discount and work for $100 per day. Then, you can deduct the $50 as promotional expense. 
When you're dealing with the union the rates are set. But it looks like iuhoosier is talking non-union. Free is very common on no budget, non-union shows.clive said:
An experienced DP who, as filmscheduling mentioned, wants to get out of shorts or industrials, or a good gaffer who wants to shoot, will work for $100-$150 a day for the right project.
PA'S rarely if ever get paid on a non union set. We have over 100 applicants for our film willing to work as PA's for free. Why would anyone ever consider paying a PA when hundreds are willing to work for free? Well there are a few reasons. If the PA is good and valuable to the set (after they proved themselves worthy), we would pay them. Secondly if the set is Union, you have to pay them.
Be prepared to fetch coffee and sweep up. If you can't find something to do, ask. Being a PA is to get your foot in the door and to learn from the bottom up. If you can prove you're a good worker they ussually "bump you up" to a paid position. If you suck, they will fire you on the spot. PA's are a dime a dozen.
A percentage of film profits? God no. Just be happy to be on the set. Try it out, I bet it will change your life! Good luck.
Be prepared to fetch coffee and sweep up. If you can't find something to do, ask. Being a PA is to get your foot in the door and to learn from the bottom up. If you can prove you're a good worker they ussually "bump you up" to a paid position. If you suck, they will fire you on the spot. PA's are a dime a dozen.
A percentage of film profits? God no. Just be happy to be on the set. Try it out, I bet it will change your life! Good luck.
Except for the truly gifted at fetching coffee and guarding trucks, unpaid PA's don't stick around on feature shoots. I know because on Police Beat we had something like 50 unpaid PA's, and guess who (me as 1st AD) had to keep track of all of them, coordinate their schedules, explain the basics to all of them, find new ones after they get bored and leave, etc. etc. Unfortunately most of them would leave before getting enough experience for me to to delegate more critical production tasks to them. At this point I would much rather pay two experienced PA's who show up every day that I can count on, that I can delegate critical tasks and errands to, rather than an army of unpaid PA's. Do you want an unpaid PA to be driving the film to the lab every day? Do you want an unpaid PA to be reliably photocopying call sheets every day, fetching gear from the rental house, checking maps and directions, etc? If not, it falls to someone else in production to do it. I think the real cost to the production of finding/coordinating unpaid PA's is high compared to just paying one or two talented people. That said I still want there to be a couple (maximum 3) of unpaid apprentices/interns on my next shoot, but not an army of unpaid PA's.
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I just did a PA job not to long ago, and it was an 18hour day to which it took a week to recover fully from. There were supposed to be 15 of us, but only 4 showed up, and by the end of the night, only some guy named Troy (yes, Troy) and I were the only ones around and working. Great learning experience for a day, but three weeks is a LOT of time, and you should be paid something. $50-100/a day sounds pretty reasonable, but you're not going to get deferrment, or a percentage.
Maybe offer to do the first shoot for free, so he can see how useful you are, and then try for the $100 spot by working your ass off. When the rest of the crew sees your talent and dedication, they'll bump you up and love you.
Sure, love of film is one thing... but you gotta pay the bills... otherwise they send the ninjas... and you don't want to deal with the rent ninjas...
Maybe offer to do the first shoot for free, so he can see how useful you are, and then try for the $100 spot by working your ass off. When the rest of the crew sees your talent and dedication, they'll bump you up and love you.
Sure, love of film is one thing... but you gotta pay the bills... otherwise they send the ninjas... and you don't want to deal with the rent ninjas...
The only people who should have enough balls to ask for a deferrment, or a percentage are actors, producers and directors. If a PA asks for something like that they will get laughed off the set, not just one person laughing at you, the ENTIRE CREW will laugh you off the set. Just remember the movie CARRIE... "They're all going to laugh at you!".... haha. All in good humor. 50 bucks a day is the norm on an indie set.
I think the rule of thumb is if you are spending 3 weeks, daily for a film, you should get some compensation (since you are taking the risk of not working for anyone else) and to support yourself for that 3 weeks.
I am about to venture to the sequel of my short film but now I'm going for feature and would need people to stay for 2 weeks shoot days, meaning, I must find a way to compensate them all for spending 12-14 hours a day with me to do this, even if it's because of love, I can't imaging me not working for 2 weeks and do something free... so i'm resorting to get some funds, to pay everyone at least SOMETHING (probably around $25/day to $100/day) depending how much I can get it out. And at least everyone has some $ for spending this long with me... (that's all cast/crew, except for extras that are needed only 2 days)
Johnny
I am about to venture to the sequel of my short film but now I'm going for feature and would need people to stay for 2 weeks shoot days, meaning, I must find a way to compensate them all for spending 12-14 hours a day with me to do this, even if it's because of love, I can't imaging me not working for 2 weeks and do something free... so i'm resorting to get some funds, to pay everyone at least SOMETHING (probably around $25/day to $100/day) depending how much I can get it out. And at least everyone has some $ for spending this long with me... (that's all cast/crew, except for extras that are needed only 2 days)
Johnny