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1K quality = to 35MM ?????

Well friends i want to know if i have a HD cam with resolution of 1k.that is 1080 * 756.and after doing all shoot and edit when i transfer it at 35mm for cinema owners or distributors.....will the quality fell???because for cinema we need 2 k quality.guide me is there any way i can keep the quality high or atleast upto level where everyone can like the camera results on cinema???please guide me about this
 
Well Can you people guide me about any HD cam which is lowest in price and the most convinient for shooting helping me when i transfer it from HS to film.like when i will use a low quality cam so i will have to work very hard on post production so which CAM can give me the relief in post ptoduction and should be affordable.something less then 1000US dolalr or 1500us dolalrs.not more then that


Please guide me
 
Unfortunatly there isn't a HD camera in your price. However, there are
some very nice HDV cameras in the $1,000 to $1,000 range that are
easy to use.

There are three things that are VERY important when getting a camera:

Three CCD’s
Manual controls for the iris, shutter, focus and white balance.
A microphone input.

In the $1,000 - $1,500 range:

The JVC GZ-MG505 is in the $800 range. It has a mic input and records
to a 30GB HHD.

My favorite is the JVC GZ-HD7. I’ve seen these on line for as little as $1,200.
A really nice Fujinon lens makes a huge difference and full manual controls is
important. Three 1/5’ 16:9 progressive scan CCD’s are pretty impressive for a
camera in this price range. It records directly to a built in 60GB hard drive. It
has manual controls, a mic input and an excellent focus ring which is surprisingly
rare on small cameras.

Both the JVC HD5 and HD6 have a mic input and both record to HDD - the HD6
can record 1080/60p through HDMI - pretty impressive for a camera in this price
range.

Close is the Canon HV20. It records in HDV (1080i) and 24p (60i), has a mic input
and manual controls of white balance and focus but it uses one 1/2.7” CMOS sensor
rather than 3 CCD’s. For me the jury is still out on the CMOS. And it’s so small the
handling is difficult.

The HV30 adds a 30f (Canon’s “frame mode”) in addition to 24p.

The Sony HDR-SR12 has a mic input and a good sized 120GB HDD. It uses a 1/3” CMOS
chip and like the Canon is really small. Because of the input placement, the mic cable
kept getting in my way, but it's a very nice camera.
 
Thanks a lot directorik. no matter if its HDV came....if it can fullfill my requiremtn of price under 1000 us dolalrs and can make the Movie acceptable at cinema then why shouldt i love it?

actually the problem earlier was that after shooting the movie i had to work with any Post Pro house in the field of editing,grabbing the movie etc etc...and i dont have that much money.so the best option is to shoot it and edit it on my PC.........or MAC. adn submit it in festivals and should contact sales agents.and if they convince the Distributors they can transfer it to Film....thats the only option available to me [:D]
 
Dear Freinds i have a habiit of asking one question from several people to cross check

so i contacted many pro houses and i got reply from one of them which im posting here


> 1) If we want to transfer our movie from digital (1080i) to 35 mm obviously there will be some loss because for cinema the requirement is of 2k and
> 1080i is just 1k.So is there special settings while production (shooting) too to help in post production?



The expression 1080i does not refer to a Resolution of 1k, 1080i means 1920x1080 pixels with interlaced recording.

If you have a HDV Camera from Sony or Canon you have a camera which can record in 1080i. The resolution is OK for a transfer to film.

There are HD and HDV cameras with a recording mode of 720p which means 1280x720 with progressive recording.



More ideal for a transfer is recording full image frames. This is called progressive recording and is indicated with p. The motion reproduction of a film recorded in progressive mode is more like film than interlaced. Interlaced has more the typical smearing effect in motion, progressive recording has more the typical shuttering of film. Both are not perfect, but p is more like film and therefore often preferred.

There are also camera which offer a “frame mode” (The Sony Z1 HDV for instance) this is not a true progressive mode and should not be used.



General remark about resolution and transfer:

Any image can be transferred to film, no matter the resolution. Also the smallest miniDV cameras are used for transfers from time to time. The question is more what quality you expect. An image in SD resolution (Standard Definition 720x576) will never be entirely sharp on the big screen, the resolution is just not good enough. Still you can achieve good results and exciting and beautiful films with this resolution. The question is not just the resolution but:

1) How you handle it on the film set

2) How well you work with the lighting

3) How strong compression artefacts are visible (this makes the image look synthetic and “videoish”

4) How much the colors are compressed in the system you use



Example:

HDV is an HD format and quite good what concerns resolution, but the colors are very strongly compressed. Digital Betacam on the contrary only has SD resolution but much better colors. In the end it’s ot clear which image is “better” but many would prefer Digital Beta even though the resolution is smaller.

There are many factors which make a good image.



Every camera has it’s own specific characteristics and so special settings which are ideal for transfer to 35mm can be evaluated. On our website

www.swisseffects.ch

you can find settings for some different cameras and also general recommendations on how to receive good results for transfer (valid for any camera).





> 2) Can you tell me which is the best HD CAM available (Not more then 1000US dollars) which can keep the maximum quality while transfering from
> digital to 35mm

* HDCam is the name for the professional HD Format created by Sony. It has a resolution of 1920x1080 pixels and a color quality of 4:2:2 (8bit linear). It is possible to shoot interlaced or progressive with this type of cameras. The HD format established by Panasonic is called DVCPro HD or DVCPro 100 and has a resolution of 1280x720 pixels with a color quality of 4:2:2 (8bit linear). It is possible to shoot in progressive mode with these cameras. The camera is also called Varicam.

You will not find any of those cameras for less than 50’000 US$

Remark: The expression 1k, 2k , 4k etc. refers to image sized with around 1000 pixels, 2000 pixels or 4000 pixels in width. Still there is more to it. 2k stands for a color depth of 10bit log or more. HDCam which is close to 2k in resolution (also about 2000 pixels in width) has only 8bit lin in color quality and a compression of 4:2:2

There are new cheaper HD cameras available:

Sony XDCam HD

Panasonic HVX200

These cameras deliver stronger compressed HD. This means that the resolution is as above, but there are more compression artefacts and the colors are quite compressed also.

These cameras cost around 10’000US$.



* The cheapest HD format is HDV:

The color compression is very strong 4:1:1 and generally there are compression artefacts as in DV.

The image looks like a DV image but more sharp, as the resolution is better.

The HDV format is basically meant for news gathering or semiprofessionals and amateurs.

These cameras also cost well over 1000US$.



* There are some more very small and very cheap HDV-type cameras on te market but the quality is very bad and I have no further info on what format they exactly record on.



Which format is “good enough” to transfer can’t be answered in an absolute way as it depends on what you expect.

In comparison to film it can be said that the HDCam and the DVCProHD format is about as good as 16mm film. In some ways HDCam/DVCProHD is stronger in other ways 16mm.

There are only a hand full of High End digital film cameras which come close to the quality of 35mm. The resolution to represent a 35mm image is at least 4k.

Also film needs to be represented with a color depth of more than 8bit lin.



You see there are many aspects to the image, not just the size in pixels.





> 3) Please guide me in detail about the setting and other factors which i should keep in mind while shooting. So that when i come at the post production
> level and transfer 1k to 35 mm the quality remains the same or falls the least.

You’ll have to go with what I explained above and educate yourself further by reading the literature and by doing tests.

Check the general recommendations on our website.





> 4) Any tips or instruction you want togive related to sound or sound recording?????

This is all a field of its own. We are not a sound studio you’ll
You’ll have to go with what I explained above and educate yourself further by reading the literature and by doing tests.

Check the general recommendations on our website.





> 4) Any tips or instruction you want togive related to sound or sound recording?????

This is all a field of its own. We are not a sound studio you’ll need to ask elsewhere.





> 5) I am planning a 1 hour30 mins movie. What will be your charges including editing etc etc.

We can only make you a useful quote when you have a clear view of what the recording format will be and how you want to do the post production. Else this is much to vast and won’t help you much.



over here numbers like 1> are my questions.expert may comment on this and people like me might get some benefit from this


Regards
 
well sorry friend.....now i will not use bluse.what if i use red???
Looks like we have a non-conformist in our midst. Most of us, quasi-creative people rely on the content of what we write, rather than the color, to express our individuality. However, if you must express yourself with color, red is easier for the eye to focus than blue. A nice, dark red might be easy on the eyes. :)

By the way, I found the response from your film transfer guy to be interesting and potentially useful information. It mostly confirmed my suspicions, and bolstered Knightly's arguments (hopefully he won't read it :)). After dissecting frames from my 30f video clips, I disagree that Canon's frame mode should not be used. Chroma reconstruction would be simple to do with an intelligent plug-in, and the result would be similar, if not identical to progressive frame modes.

Doug
 
FOR Directorik i am submitting all that in black so that he can read and comment on that


Dear Freinds i have a habiit of asking one question from several people to cross check

so i contacted many pro houses and i got reply from one of them which im posting here


> 1) If we want to transfer our movie from digital (1080i) to 35 mm obviously there will be some loss because for cinema the requirement is of 2k and
> 1080i is just 1k.So is there special settings while production (shooting) too to help in post production?



The expression 1080i does not refer to a Resolution of 1k, 1080i means 1920x1080 pixels with interlaced recording.

If you have a HDV Camera from Sony or Canon you have a camera which can record in 1080i. The resolution is OK for a transfer to film.

There are HD and HDV cameras with a recording mode of 720p which means 1280x720 with progressive recording.



More ideal for a transfer is recording full image frames. This is called progressive recording and is indicated with p. The motion reproduction of a film recorded in progressive mode is more like film than interlaced. Interlaced has more the typical smearing effect in motion, progressive recording has more the typical shuttering of film. Both are not perfect, but p is more like film and therefore often preferred.

There are also camera which offer a “frame mode” (The Sony Z1 HDV for instance) this is not a true progressive mode and should not be used.



General remark about resolution and transfer:

Any image can be transferred to film, no matter the resolution. Also the smallest miniDV cameras are used for transfers from time to time. The question is more what quality you expect. An image in SD resolution (Standard Definition 720x576) will never be entirely sharp on the big screen, the resolution is just not good enough. Still you can achieve good results and exciting and beautiful films with this resolution. The question is not just the resolution but:

1) How you handle it on the film set

2) How well you work with the lighting

3) How strong compression artefacts are visible (this makes the image look synthetic and “videoish”

4) How much the colors are compressed in the system you use



Example:

HDV is an HD format and quite good what concerns resolution, but the colors are very strongly compressed. Digital Betacam on the contrary only has SD resolution but much better colors. In the end it’s ot clear which image is “better” but many would prefer Digital Beta even though the resolution is smaller.

There are many factors which make a good image.



Every camera has it’s own specific characteristics and so special settings which are ideal for transfer to 35mm can be evaluated. On our website

www.swisseffects.ch

you can find settings for some different cameras and also general recommendations on how to receive good results for transfer (valid for any camera).





> 2) Can you tell me which is the best HD CAM available (Not more then 1000US dollars) which can keep the maximum quality while transfering from
> digital to 35mm

* HDCam is the name for the professional HD Format created by Sony. It has a resolution of 1920x1080 pixels and a color quality of 4:2:2 (8bit linear). It is possible to shoot interlaced or progressive with this type of cameras. The HD format established by Panasonic is called DVCPro HD or DVCPro 100 and has a resolution of 1280x720 pixels with a color quality of 4:2:2 (8bit linear). It is possible to shoot in progressive mode with these cameras. The camera is also called Varicam.

You will not find any of those cameras for less than 50’000 US$

Remark: The expression 1k, 2k , 4k etc. refers to image sized with around 1000 pixels, 2000 pixels or 4000 pixels in width. Still there is more to it. 2k stands for a color depth of 10bit log or more. HDCam which is close to 2k in resolution (also about 2000 pixels in width) has only 8bit lin in color quality and a compression of 4:2:2

There are new cheaper HD cameras available:

Sony XDCam HD

Panasonic HVX200

These cameras deliver stronger compressed HD. This means that the resolution is as above, but there are more compression artefacts and the colors are quite compressed also.

These cameras cost around 10’000US$.



* The cheapest HD format is HDV:

The color compression is very strong 4:1:1 and generally there are compression artefacts as in DV.

The image looks like a DV image but more sharp, as the resolution is better.

The HDV format is basically meant for news gathering or semiprofessionals and amateurs.

These cameras also cost well over 1000US$.



* There are some more very small and very cheap HDV-type cameras on te market but the quality is very bad and I have no further info on what format they exactly record on.



Which format is “good enough” to transfer can’t be answered in an absolute way as it depends on what you expect.

In comparison to film it can be said that the HDCam and the DVCProHD format is about as good as 16mm film. In some ways HDCam/DVCProHD is stronger in other ways 16mm.

There are only a hand full of High End digital film cameras which come close to the quality of 35mm. The resolution to represent a 35mm image is at least 4k.

Also film needs to be represented with a color depth of more than 8bit lin.



You see there are many aspects to the image, not just the size in pixels.





> 3) Please guide me in detail about the setting and other factors which i should keep in mind while shooting. So that when i come at the post production
> level and transfer 1k to 35 mm the quality remains the same or falls the least.

You’ll have to go with what I explained above and educate yourself further by reading the literature and by doing tests.

Check the general recommendations on our website.





> 4) Any tips or instruction you want togive related to sound or sound recording?????

This is all a field of its own. We are not a sound studio you’ll
You’ll have to go with what I explained above and educate yourself further by reading the literature and by doing tests.

Check the general recommendations on our website.





> 4) Any tips or instruction you want togive related to sound or sound recording?????

This is all a field of its own. We are not a sound studio you’ll need to ask elsewhere.





> 5) I am planning a 1 hour30 mins movie. What will be your charges including editing etc etc.

We can only make you a useful quote when you have a clear view of what the recording format will be and how you want to do the post production. Else this is much to vast and won’t help you much.



over here numbers like 1> are my questions.expert may comment on this and people like me might get some benefit from this


Regards
 
hi everyone

well oakstreetphotovideo i never thought to show my individuality by changing colours.i just thought that everyone is using black when there is the option of other colours so why not to give a change to my friends.that was the only thought behind it.well thanks for telling that my info was interesting [:)] can you guide me in detail what you said

After dissecting frames from my 30f video clips, I disagree that Canon's frame mode should not be used. Chroma reconstruction would be simple to do with an intelligent plug-in, and the result would be similar, if not identical to progressive frame modes.

can you explain it in little detail????
 
can you explain it in little detail????
I'm not sure if your post was referring to Sony's frame mode, Canon's frame mode, or all frame modes. I'm also not sure if he was speaking of the 3:2 pull-down or image quality.
Regarding image quality; looking at the frame produced by my Canon XH-A1, the fields are temporally identical, as in progressive capture, but the chroma subsampling pattern (4:2:0) is interlaced.

There may be something I'm overlooking, but I am pretty confident that HDV 1080i shot in frame mode could be reconciled to look nearly as good, or as good as 1080p. If you shoot in 24f, you must remove the 3:2 pull down with something like Cinema Tools to get an actual 24 frames/second video. I shoot in 30f, so I haven't had cause to experiment with 24f. I guess I'll have to try it sometime to see if there are any strange artifacts after conversion to 24 frames/second.

Doug
 
same question as of barnaclelapse

The way you describe it, it sounds like it's just easier to shoot in 30f...

Or did I read that wrong?

and oakstreetphotovideo can you please tell me the whole process again in a little userfriendly language??you are getting highly technical :d
 
I shoot in 30f because I am shooting for television commercials that will be broadcast in the U.S., which means NTSC (29.97fps). I have no other reason for shooting in 30f vs. 24f.

Regarding my technical explanation; it is a very technical problem, and my time is limited. My background is in writing image processing software. I deal with these things at a mathematical level. That was the user friendly version.

The most user friendly thing I can say, although I've already said it, is that I don't believe 30f or 24f would be unsuitable for inverse telecine. I have read things that support my opinion, also.

Doug
 
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