Dear Fellow Filmmakers,
Bear with me, this is long and involved and takes some time to read through, but I would so very much appreciate your take on it. The reason why I'm not asking my colleagues is because I'm embarrassed to. I don't want to look naive and that I don't know what I'm doing and so want to stay fairly anonymous. Neither do I want to look stupid for getting involved in an indie crowdfunder film, even though it's becoming more of an accepted practice.
Since the advent of crowdfunding, entire films have been shot, edited and shopped from crowdfunding funds. Crowdfunding which are, most of the time, funded by laymen outside of the industry looking for a few perks and that's that.
However, I'm a fairly established writer/director in the business for several years who saw a guy making what looked to be a potentially really great film using crowdfunding. So, I donated 1k to the project thinking it was a great cause. I cared about the cause because it struck a very personal note to me. It still does. I contacted the director who was also an actor (without representation) and also running the crowdfunding campaign. He was the consummate salesman even when he didn't need to be with me, but I thought the fact he was able to get a song donated to his film from a major band was impressive and I told him that. I saw true potential in him too. I also believed since I have been in the business several years that I was 'safe' and could protect myself from manipulation and scammery. The 1k that I donated is under my name and not under my company's name.
Fast forward several months, he's filming it and posting selective information online to appease people on his crowdfunding page and social media. I contacted him again and he was very receptive to my offering to help him with festivals. We had a vision and it was exciting! I also requested that he move the film title on IMDb to my pre-existing IMDb credit instead of the new producer credit he had created for me. I was a bit taken aback that he started a whole new credit for me instead of the existing one, but I try to stay humble just because it's the right thing to do. At that same time, since I saw huge potential and loved the premise I agreed to donate my expertise. It was not to get any financial gains but solely because he was acting like he needed the help and couldn't afford to hire and I truly believed in the film.
So, I went to work and started taking the steps to enter into Cannes. This is where it gets murky and confusing and somewhat regretful. Upon post production, I reported back to him that he had a few months to finish post before the Cannes submission deadline. Strangely, it sounded like he was under the impression he could submit 'as is' and then submit a second finished product to Cannes. I told him that whatever you submit to Cannes, that's what they screen (although you can edit the film after Cannes before release). Okay, he said fine and that they would working on post to aim specifically for Cannes. He also posted on his donor page that he wanted to take it to Cannes. About a month ahead of time I touched base again and he told me that they probably wouldn't have it done by then. That's it? Why didn't he tell me such an important revelation earlier? How could it just slip his mind? I had already put work into the paper work of getting into Cannes. I put in one last push to try to submit it in time. Could his team donate their time and work a bit longer hours just to get it in? He said no and that they would have to be paid. He then stated that he wanted it to be perfect and didn't want to rush but it would definitely be finished in a couple of weeks in time for the opening of the Venice submission date. I completely agreed, but then he said something strange - that Cannes was a vain festival and way over rated anyway. Okay, Oscar Winner. He then said he had scheduled a voice over session for the day before the deadline so there was no way they'd get it in in time. Again, why didn't he tell me this earlier?!
At this point, I am starting to feel a bit off since I had told him on a few occasions the deadline and he certainly didn't think Cannes was vain then. I couldn't believe that he didn't know. Was he playing stupid? I still hadn't asked for a consulting credit acknowledging me as a consulting producer. I was still stuck with the crowdfunding producer credit and I didn't like that because it didn't specify that I was doing work and not only a crowdfunder that donated 1k. Plus he seemed to be bullcrapping me. I had made sure that he wanted my services. I thought we had somewhat of an agreement. We had several specific step by step conversations about what I think we should do to enter films into festivals. He asked me about my vision for Venice. I thought I was part of the tight-nit team. Boy, did I feel stupid. During that time, I noticed he had just put two big name actors up playing the leads. Chances are he could not afford the actors with the limited crowdfunding he had gotten up until then, even though it was an impressive amount. But again, I was reeled back in. I started ignoring my doubts again. I don't know if they signed for day shoots or decided to get a backend percentage. At this point, I decided to ask for the credit. He basically said no because he had other 'established' producers advising him on festivals. What?! It was obvious I was being pushed out and he started belittling my work. Did I offend him when I said that they could have moved the voice over session to earlier? Maybe he told his other producers that I messed up on the deadline date and it was all my fault. Remember, I didn't know about the major actors and so didn't realise the session was contingent on their availability. He shot back with this really long and emotional message about how he thought I was rude and that I had 'upset' him. Never in my career have I been guilt-tripped so badly. I didn't think he was professional because to survive in this business, you can't fly off the handle when someone politely points out a mistake you made, especially if the person had gone over it on several occasions and if the intent was to help you.
Again, I looked over our previous communication and then wrote him again. I politely, but firmly, told him how and why I was consulting him the way I was. Without blaming him, I listed the missing crucial details that he had not given me that would have changed my perception of and reaction to the situation. But I also asked him why he still had listed Cannes as a festival he wants to enter in competition on his donor site if he knows now the film won't make it and the deadline's over. He shot back saying he has a learning disability that caused him to not see most of my messages about the deadline and that's why he scheduled everything the way he did. But that flies in the face of him telling me he has more 'established' producers advising him on Cannes. Even then, he made it sound like he still believed he could enter it next year even after showing it at Venice and Toronto. I kept reiterating that key point, that this is it and that if this deadline is missed, the hopes of Cannes is over forever. So, he later said that his producers emailed Cannes and asked if they could submit into competition in April. I don't know if he's naive, delusional, a scammer, or just really ambitious but Cannes wrote back saying 'No'. Either way, of course Cannes said no, his film is not a huge film and why he was asking for special treatment upon his first submission to Cannes is, well, bold to say the least. So, after feeling thoroughly down trodden and dismissed I wrote him politely backing away. I also told him I donated over 2k worth of professional services, whether he used them or not, and I felt underappreciated, even if he does have a learning disability.
It has been disappointing for me for a few reasons because I had been there since pre-production and felt like I was being dismissed. But again, I was trying to stay humble because of I believe in the film. Someone said to me, 'What if he's not giving anyone credit for anything? What if he's said he's hiring people but not paying them and pocketing the money?'. Possible?
Anyway, within a couple days of removing myself from donating my expertise, I got an email from a distributor colleague (already in my contacts) asking about the project. I didn't know what to think. Did she notice the film under my imdb or is that too self centred of me to think that? Did she notice my tweets online pumping the film? Did he suggest she email me? Or was it simply by pure chance that she decided to shoot out an email to me about it. I didn't want to get involved again but I did email her back and ask if he'd gotten back to her. I messaged the director and he said that he also got an email from that distributor (and a few others actually). He said, 'Was it so and so? I have a meeting with another huge distributor 'So and so' coming up'. I felt stuck. What do I do? He could be hoping I'll go back to her and show my hand without being actually on the film anymore. She emailed me and said he had and that they'd 'circle back' when 'your team' is ready. Okay, but I'm not on the team anymore. What now?
Anyway, I chose to forget about the entire thing, and went along with my own projects and registering for Cannes on my own as I have for the past 10 years, and posting about it on social media as I usually do. Yesterday I saw a post by him saying they are taking the film to Cannes! What?! I suppose that's great but what the heck? So I checked Cinando and he wasn't on it for Cannes and neither was his 'team'. By then I really started wondering why he's not going the distribution catalogue route that my colleague offered him and still asking laymen for crowdfunding money under the premise of finding (not securing) distribution. He had extended the crowdfunding to the end of this year. Is it he doesn't want to get serious? Why not? So I checked his IMDb and saw that his team consists of four guys he's worked with for years. The same 4 guys! And not one of them has ever gotten a distribution or release. Neither have they entered it into any festival. And none of their films revealed the budget. More disturbingly, he had made it sound like he just met them. Generally speaking, if you know someone in this business you either tout it or don't say anything. You don't pretend you just met them. Criminals do that sort of thing.
Still, the pendulum swings back in my mind, maybe this film is it. I wonder if they only had bad luck before and that's why none of their films have been theatrically released. Maybe it'll be a huge success! Or maybe he's scamming all the actors and donors. Why is he making me look like just another crowdfunder? Why can't I have a separate production credit outside of his buddies and a credit derived from being hired? I woke up worried that he's going to tell people I'm representing the project in Cannes, when I'm not. And kicked myself for posting about registering for the festival. Nobody would be the wiser, because no official paper work is being shared here. My question is: is this a scam? If I am only a crowdfunder without a separate production credit outside of his buddies and not a credit derived from being hired and paid, am I allowed to see the books?
Suffice it to say, since he is now saying on twitter he's taking it to Cannes this year, I am at a complete loss as to what to do. Should I jump back in and help with Cannes and Venice, should I lay low, or should I run?
What do you guys think?
Bear with me, this is long and involved and takes some time to read through, but I would so very much appreciate your take on it. The reason why I'm not asking my colleagues is because I'm embarrassed to. I don't want to look naive and that I don't know what I'm doing and so want to stay fairly anonymous. Neither do I want to look stupid for getting involved in an indie crowdfunder film, even though it's becoming more of an accepted practice.
Since the advent of crowdfunding, entire films have been shot, edited and shopped from crowdfunding funds. Crowdfunding which are, most of the time, funded by laymen outside of the industry looking for a few perks and that's that.
However, I'm a fairly established writer/director in the business for several years who saw a guy making what looked to be a potentially really great film using crowdfunding. So, I donated 1k to the project thinking it was a great cause. I cared about the cause because it struck a very personal note to me. It still does. I contacted the director who was also an actor (without representation) and also running the crowdfunding campaign. He was the consummate salesman even when he didn't need to be with me, but I thought the fact he was able to get a song donated to his film from a major band was impressive and I told him that. I saw true potential in him too. I also believed since I have been in the business several years that I was 'safe' and could protect myself from manipulation and scammery. The 1k that I donated is under my name and not under my company's name.
Fast forward several months, he's filming it and posting selective information online to appease people on his crowdfunding page and social media. I contacted him again and he was very receptive to my offering to help him with festivals. We had a vision and it was exciting! I also requested that he move the film title on IMDb to my pre-existing IMDb credit instead of the new producer credit he had created for me. I was a bit taken aback that he started a whole new credit for me instead of the existing one, but I try to stay humble just because it's the right thing to do. At that same time, since I saw huge potential and loved the premise I agreed to donate my expertise. It was not to get any financial gains but solely because he was acting like he needed the help and couldn't afford to hire and I truly believed in the film.
So, I went to work and started taking the steps to enter into Cannes. This is where it gets murky and confusing and somewhat regretful. Upon post production, I reported back to him that he had a few months to finish post before the Cannes submission deadline. Strangely, it sounded like he was under the impression he could submit 'as is' and then submit a second finished product to Cannes. I told him that whatever you submit to Cannes, that's what they screen (although you can edit the film after Cannes before release). Okay, he said fine and that they would working on post to aim specifically for Cannes. He also posted on his donor page that he wanted to take it to Cannes. About a month ahead of time I touched base again and he told me that they probably wouldn't have it done by then. That's it? Why didn't he tell me such an important revelation earlier? How could it just slip his mind? I had already put work into the paper work of getting into Cannes. I put in one last push to try to submit it in time. Could his team donate their time and work a bit longer hours just to get it in? He said no and that they would have to be paid. He then stated that he wanted it to be perfect and didn't want to rush but it would definitely be finished in a couple of weeks in time for the opening of the Venice submission date. I completely agreed, but then he said something strange - that Cannes was a vain festival and way over rated anyway. Okay, Oscar Winner. He then said he had scheduled a voice over session for the day before the deadline so there was no way they'd get it in in time. Again, why didn't he tell me this earlier?!
At this point, I am starting to feel a bit off since I had told him on a few occasions the deadline and he certainly didn't think Cannes was vain then. I couldn't believe that he didn't know. Was he playing stupid? I still hadn't asked for a consulting credit acknowledging me as a consulting producer. I was still stuck with the crowdfunding producer credit and I didn't like that because it didn't specify that I was doing work and not only a crowdfunder that donated 1k. Plus he seemed to be bullcrapping me. I had made sure that he wanted my services. I thought we had somewhat of an agreement. We had several specific step by step conversations about what I think we should do to enter films into festivals. He asked me about my vision for Venice. I thought I was part of the tight-nit team. Boy, did I feel stupid. During that time, I noticed he had just put two big name actors up playing the leads. Chances are he could not afford the actors with the limited crowdfunding he had gotten up until then, even though it was an impressive amount. But again, I was reeled back in. I started ignoring my doubts again. I don't know if they signed for day shoots or decided to get a backend percentage. At this point, I decided to ask for the credit. He basically said no because he had other 'established' producers advising him on festivals. What?! It was obvious I was being pushed out and he started belittling my work. Did I offend him when I said that they could have moved the voice over session to earlier? Maybe he told his other producers that I messed up on the deadline date and it was all my fault. Remember, I didn't know about the major actors and so didn't realise the session was contingent on their availability. He shot back with this really long and emotional message about how he thought I was rude and that I had 'upset' him. Never in my career have I been guilt-tripped so badly. I didn't think he was professional because to survive in this business, you can't fly off the handle when someone politely points out a mistake you made, especially if the person had gone over it on several occasions and if the intent was to help you.
Again, I looked over our previous communication and then wrote him again. I politely, but firmly, told him how and why I was consulting him the way I was. Without blaming him, I listed the missing crucial details that he had not given me that would have changed my perception of and reaction to the situation. But I also asked him why he still had listed Cannes as a festival he wants to enter in competition on his donor site if he knows now the film won't make it and the deadline's over. He shot back saying he has a learning disability that caused him to not see most of my messages about the deadline and that's why he scheduled everything the way he did. But that flies in the face of him telling me he has more 'established' producers advising him on Cannes. Even then, he made it sound like he still believed he could enter it next year even after showing it at Venice and Toronto. I kept reiterating that key point, that this is it and that if this deadline is missed, the hopes of Cannes is over forever. So, he later said that his producers emailed Cannes and asked if they could submit into competition in April. I don't know if he's naive, delusional, a scammer, or just really ambitious but Cannes wrote back saying 'No'. Either way, of course Cannes said no, his film is not a huge film and why he was asking for special treatment upon his first submission to Cannes is, well, bold to say the least. So, after feeling thoroughly down trodden and dismissed I wrote him politely backing away. I also told him I donated over 2k worth of professional services, whether he used them or not, and I felt underappreciated, even if he does have a learning disability.
It has been disappointing for me for a few reasons because I had been there since pre-production and felt like I was being dismissed. But again, I was trying to stay humble because of I believe in the film. Someone said to me, 'What if he's not giving anyone credit for anything? What if he's said he's hiring people but not paying them and pocketing the money?'. Possible?
Anyway, within a couple days of removing myself from donating my expertise, I got an email from a distributor colleague (already in my contacts) asking about the project. I didn't know what to think. Did she notice the film under my imdb or is that too self centred of me to think that? Did she notice my tweets online pumping the film? Did he suggest she email me? Or was it simply by pure chance that she decided to shoot out an email to me about it. I didn't want to get involved again but I did email her back and ask if he'd gotten back to her. I messaged the director and he said that he also got an email from that distributor (and a few others actually). He said, 'Was it so and so? I have a meeting with another huge distributor 'So and so' coming up'. I felt stuck. What do I do? He could be hoping I'll go back to her and show my hand without being actually on the film anymore. She emailed me and said he had and that they'd 'circle back' when 'your team' is ready. Okay, but I'm not on the team anymore. What now?
Anyway, I chose to forget about the entire thing, and went along with my own projects and registering for Cannes on my own as I have for the past 10 years, and posting about it on social media as I usually do. Yesterday I saw a post by him saying they are taking the film to Cannes! What?! I suppose that's great but what the heck? So I checked Cinando and he wasn't on it for Cannes and neither was his 'team'. By then I really started wondering why he's not going the distribution catalogue route that my colleague offered him and still asking laymen for crowdfunding money under the premise of finding (not securing) distribution. He had extended the crowdfunding to the end of this year. Is it he doesn't want to get serious? Why not? So I checked his IMDb and saw that his team consists of four guys he's worked with for years. The same 4 guys! And not one of them has ever gotten a distribution or release. Neither have they entered it into any festival. And none of their films revealed the budget. More disturbingly, he had made it sound like he just met them. Generally speaking, if you know someone in this business you either tout it or don't say anything. You don't pretend you just met them. Criminals do that sort of thing.
Still, the pendulum swings back in my mind, maybe this film is it. I wonder if they only had bad luck before and that's why none of their films have been theatrically released. Maybe it'll be a huge success! Or maybe he's scamming all the actors and donors. Why is he making me look like just another crowdfunder? Why can't I have a separate production credit outside of his buddies and a credit derived from being hired? I woke up worried that he's going to tell people I'm representing the project in Cannes, when I'm not. And kicked myself for posting about registering for the festival. Nobody would be the wiser, because no official paper work is being shared here. My question is: is this a scam? If I am only a crowdfunder without a separate production credit outside of his buddies and not a credit derived from being hired and paid, am I allowed to see the books?
Suffice it to say, since he is now saying on twitter he's taking it to Cannes this year, I am at a complete loss as to what to do. Should I jump back in and help with Cannes and Venice, should I lay low, or should I run?
What do you guys think?
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