Cinematographer vs. Producer (Canon 7D)

I love that this thread has turned into the very argument which that video was satirizing.

Irony? Maybe.
Actually, the conversation is more of a discussion on how the video presents a false dichotomy between DSLR cameras and your typical, pricey, quality cameras. This is a good thing.

I'm sure everyone here would love to have an infinite budget to find their movies, but it's just not the case. We make do with what we have.
 
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Actually, the conversation is more of a discussion on how the video presents a false dichotomy between DSLR cameras and your typical, pricey, quality cameras. This is a good thing.

I'm sure everyone here would love to have an infinite budget to find their movies, but it's just not the case. We make do with what we have.

EXACTLY.
 
Why oh why is this msg so hard to get across? Instead we have debates and debates about the "better" camera.

I'll never understand.

Makes me long for the days when camera/film stock choice were about tailoring the image to enhance the film, and not strictly about budget or "next big thing."

Maybe it was never that way. I have no idea, but let me keep my illusions! :)
 
I'll never understand.

Makes me long for the days when camera/film stock choice were about tailoring the image to enhance the film, and not strictly about budget or "next big thing."

Maybe it was never that way. I have no idea, but let me keep my illusions! :)

I don't miss those days one bit. Why don't I miss those days? Because I wasn't making movies. I couldn't afford to.

I didn't even own a VCR or DVD player until 1992. A camcorder was simply out of the question, in my government-cheese-eating house. Filming a movie was nothing more than a pipe dream.

The relatively inexpensive availability of these wonderful new technologies is openning up this craft to a whole lot of people that could only dream of it before. The art will only flourish, as a result. I predict we're on the cusp of entering a new Golden Era of cinema, and it'll be because of these new technologies.

That being said, I do of course agree with your sentiment. Story first. Technology should be an afterthought.
 
The relatively inexpensive availability of these wonderful new technologies is openning up this craft to a whole lot of people that could only dream of it before. The art will only flourish, as a result. I predict we're on the cusp of entering a new Golden Era of cinema, and it'll be because of these new technologies.
But first, we have to KILL HOLLYWOOD. Or at the very least burn down all current studios to start from scratch.

Story first.
Yes.

Technology should be an afterthought.
No.
 
I don't miss those days one bit. Why don't I miss those days? Because I wasn't making movies. I couldn't afford to.

I didn't even own a VCR or DVD player until 1992. A camcorder was simply out of the question, in my government-cheese-eating house. Filming a movie was nothing more than a pipe dream.

The relatively inexpensive availability of these wonderful new technologies is openning up this craft to a whole lot of people that could only dream of it before. The art will only flourish, as a result. I predict we're on the cusp of entering a new Golden Era of cinema, and it'll be because of these new technologies.

That being said, I do of course agree with your sentiment. Story first. Technology should be an afterthought.


"Where there's a will, there's a way." I'm not going to get into any personal history, but I agree that popular access to mediums of expression have always ushered in new revolutions...Gutenberg Press, for example. I am also a proponent of learning the history of the craft, and with film, it really does start with the composition of a single frame...which harkens back to 2-d graphics/painting/illustration. Add onto this: movement in (implied) 3-d space; the ambiance (both sound and image) surrounding what is actually illustrated; and time passed.


Cheap tech does make it possible for anyone to make a movie, but it doesn't make any of it's patrons, artists. Statistically, odds are there will be as many bad films as there are bad romance novels, etc

Dreamers have always found a way to express themselves with other mediums, mediums they have access to. True artists aren't, and never were, silenced by economy. IMHO, of course.


EDIT: OH yeah, I am serious about the IMAX budget. Anyone? :D
 
I am also a proponent of learning the history of the craft, and with film, it really does start with the composition of a single frame...

Full agreement. In the first class I ever took that involved videography, our professor didn't even let us touch a video camera until halfway through the quarter. We spent the first half using still cameras only.

Statistically, odds are there will be as many bad films as there are bad romance novels, etc

Absolutely. However, by sheer quantity, there should be a greater number of real quality product.

Dreamers have always found a way to express themselves with other mediums, mediums they have access to. True artists aren't, and never were, silenced by economy. IMHO, of course.

I resemble that comment. No, you're right. I think most of us are artists, in general, and if we weren't making films, we'd be expressing ourselves in other ways. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the people on this forum fit your definition of "true artist".


EDIT: OH yeah, I am serious about the IMAX budget. Anyone? :D

You mean to make an IMAX movie? Like, with proper IMAX camera and film?
 
Oh, and wombat, I used poor choice of language. I don't mean technology should be an afterthought, just that your use of the technology should always serve the story. Story dictates all, and everything answers to it, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
 
EH?

Why is shooting on DLSR a bad thing? How much money does 'have money' constitute? The image quality is fantastic...the best bang for your buck out there right now. No shame in DSLR footage.

Also, I have to disagree with your advice to 'don't make a feature' if you don't have the money. Do what then? Spend [less] money on a short, and put it into festivals? Then what? You're out of the money you spent on a short, with no way of compensating it...plus you're spending money on every festival you submit to (loosing your entry fee whether you get in or not on some of them).

I say shoot a damn feature. It's really the only way to be taken seriously as a filmmaker. And it's the only way to make any money. If you can't shoot a feature...you haven't really made a film yet--at least, that's how I look at it. Practice with the shorts...have fun with ideas...but if you want to make movies, shoot a damn feature. How many investors are going to take you seriously without a feature under your belt? Shooting a great short is one thing...but a feature is another thing entirely (when it comes to responsibility and follow-through).

Stop talking about it and do it. :)

I love you. You're all sexy and talented.

Hm, confused. :weird:

Did you quote the wrong post?
 
as is, it's making fun of something that doesn't exist -- a producer who has the option of a proper shoot, but chooses DSLR. Or, maybe I'm wrong, maybe there are people like that out there, but I haven't met them.

Funny you should mention that.
smiley_haw.gif


Leaving aside the definition of "a proper shoot" (which would likely be as illuminating & clarifying as asking "what does 'indie' really mean?"), I have seen this happen on the shoot we finally wrapped this morning. :)
 
Funny you should mention that.
smiley_haw.gif


Leaving aside the definition of "a proper shoot" (which would likely be as illuminating & clarifying as asking "what does 'indie' really mean?"), I have seen this happen on the shoot we finally wrapped this morning. :)

True -- I'm being terribly vague by using a phrase like "proper shoot". That could mean a lot of different things to different people.

I'll clarify what I meant by it, but I don't mean to say that any alternative to what I'm suggesting is "improper".

At least a skeleton crew of professionals (and I mean "professional" by it's literal definition). I'd say, bare minimum, I'd want a DP, gaffer, grip, 2 cameras, boom-op, sound recording expert guy (I feel stupid that I don't know what they're called), script supervisor, umm, I'm sure I'm leaving some very important crew members out, but you get my gist. The crew on my feature is myself and another dude. We're both very talented, but neither of us has the experience of a professional, and I'd really like it if I had all those other people who really should be (in my opinion) standard.

Professional quality camera. If I can't shoot on film, at least get me a Red. As a minimum, I'd like one of those big-ass light trucks, with all the professional lights and stuff. And last, but definitely not least, I'd like enough of a budget to not be forced to rush every shot. I'm sort of glancing over this; I'm sure there's other stuff I missed, but I think this probably communicates my ideas, no?

I chose a T2i because it's all I could afford. I caught a lot of flack in another thread because I've chosen to pretty much not light any of my sets. I don't want to re-open that debate, but I assure you I made the decision not because I wanted to, or because I was lazy, but because I truly felt it would make the end-result better, by allowing me to focus my time on other stuff.

Anyway, yeah, it's pretty sad that someone would choose to use a DSLR, with minimal or no lighting, or any of the other stuff that's mentioned in the cartoon, if they have the option of the more traditional methods.

I'm just speculating, but my intuition tells me that if a producer chooses the least expensive route, at sacrifice to the quality of the film, when they can afford better quality, that producer probably doesn't have any serious aspirations for the film. I'm thinking they are probably just low-balling, looking for ways to pinch pennies, with no hopes of the film having any real success. That's lame. So, I can see better now, why the cartoon is funny (and sad).
 
Well I think the 7d is a good camera but not as good as the Red. If the 7d is used correctly with an experienced DP it can look good. It is more important how the equipment is used versus the equipment. Just my thoughts. I am no expert. I think both the 7d and 5d look good. I would prefer the Red if I had the budget.
 
Well I think the 7d is a good camera but not as good as the Red. If the 7d is used correctly with an experienced DP it can look good. It is more important how the equipment is used versus the equipment. Just my thoughts. I am no expert. I think both the 7d and 5d look good. I would prefer the Red if I had the budget.

well said.
 
WOW, that was fricken histarical. I go through this debate with my DP all the time.

I emailed the link to him :)
 
Well I think the 7d is a good camera but not as good as the Red. If the 7d is used correctly with an experienced DP it can look good. It is more important how the equipment is used versus the equipment. Just my thoughts. I am no expert. I think both the 7d and 5d look good. I would prefer the Red if I had the budget.

Blow the 7D up in a theater, then tell me that again :P
 
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