Wireless Lapel Mics?

etnad0

etnad0

In a previous thread I mentioned the possibility of using my Tascam FW1082 to capture sound on set. Someone mentioned that its not useful for run and gun sound. I was wondering how many people use wireless lapel mics?

I was thinking that I could run them through the Tascam which has its own onboard sound card which is much better than the one in my laptop. What are the pros and cons of wireless lapel mics?
 
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etnad0;179245What are the pros and cons of wireless lapel mics?[/QUOTE said:
The details are really in the transmitter/receiver units and the cost differential between "pro" systems and the consumer models is staggering.

On the low end you have lavs that are hardwired to the transmitter and can't easily be replaced that operate analog in the noisy VHF range and are subject to interference and dropout. You can get usable results with patience and constant monitoring (any system requires constant monitoring), but build quality will effect longevity.

The high end systems are awesome, but are obnoxiously expensive. A pro lav alone is in the $200-$400 range (US) all by itself and that's just the mic.
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Unless you have the budget for a high-end wireless system, you may be frustrated by them. I have a Sennheiser system that is mid-range priced and it sounds great, but is often prone to interference in the form of loud pops, which invariably occur during the most important piece of audio. I bought it many years ago, when there were fewer cell phones and other wireless devices clogging the frequencies, and it worked great. But over the years the popping has just gotten worse.

I watched a deleted scene on a DVD recently in which the sound had not been cleaned up. Two characters were having a conversation on horseback out in the middle of nowhere. It was obvious that wireless mics were being used because the tracks had popping and crackling just like I experience. And this was a major studio feature so you know they were using top-of-the-line equipment, yet they still had issues.

Bottom line: wireless mics are great to have available in a pinch, but are definitely a last resort option.
 
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etnad0 said:
What are the pros and cons of wireless lapel mics?
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Unless you have the money and the experienced people I can't
think of many pros for using them. Of course if you have the money
and the experienced people you can get some good audio in very difficult
places - long shots for example; any place you cannot get a boom.

The cons - you need one full system for each actor speaking in a scene.
You need to hide them well and still avoid clothing rustle. You need a
dedicated, experienced mixer riding the levels and mixing all the time.
A cheap system can pick up a LOT of other wireless traffic. It's time
consuming.

I've directed movies where we use them. I have always been very
impressed with the hard work, skill and experience the recordist/mixer
brings to this specific situation. I cannot imagine trying this without
seriously skilled people.
 
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etnad0 said:
I actually need something to capture sound on the move. I guess I could always write the dialogue to where walking or running isn't necessary.
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Of course if you have the money and the experienced people
you can get some good audio in very difficult places - like when
people are running.

In those cases renting is a fairly standard practice. If you have
a total of five or six days with scenes like this you can rent the
proper mic system to do the job. If most of your shoot has
people running and talking then buying might be your best option.

Many times a scene with characters running is re-recorded during
post production. You know this as ADR. You end up with excellent
dialogue tracks and don't have to buy expensive equipment, rent
or rewrite.
 
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Time is money on a shoot and the quickest, cheapest, most reliable way to get good sound is with a boom. Modern pro wireless equipment is amazing - think of Broadway plays and rock concerts, but their locations don't change much and they sound check like surgeons, which takes time.

I, personally, wouldn't have a problem doing a two actor walking scene with good wireless equipment - especially if it's 2 camera shoot and the boom operator would be in the shot or some other reason. That would be just two channels to be mixed in post. That is keeping in mind I used wireless mics every day for years - really expensive ones - and you get a sixth sense about what could cause problems...and there will be problems from time to time.

For a low budget indie shoot, I would rent like Directorick said or just rewrite the scene to use a more traditional approach.
 
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Reliable wireless systems are expensive. The "low-budget" choice is the Sennheiser G3 at $600 per trans/rec set. You could also go for Lectrosonics systems which start at around $1,400 and top out at around $3,000 each.

You also need to consider that reliability is increased the closer the receiver is to the transmitter; you hide the receiver close to the talent and do very long cable runs back to the mixer/recorder.

Most professionals replace the stock lav with a CountryMan B-6, Sanken COS-10 (the COS-11 is out soon) or the Tram TR-50 ($250 - $400). Why? They resist moisture (sweat) extremely well, they are very, very small and they sound great. So you would be spending almost $1000 per set.

countryman-b6-omnidirectional-lavalier.jpg


Countryman B-6 Lavalier​


Another thing to consider is the difficulty of placing the lav for optimum voice pick-up while keeping it unseen and avoiding clothing rub and rustle. This is where your wardrobe person collaborates with the production sound team to sew the mic and transmitter into the actors costume. Or the lav can be hidden in the hair (in conjunction with the hair stylist) or placed on the body and attached with moleskin, etc. (in conjunction with make-up).

Hire a professional sound team, or at the least a hungry, knowledgeable up-and-comer. Barring that, assign one person to do nothing but sound and rent what gear you need.
 
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One thing the G3 has going for it is it's a diversity reciever. The G2 was not so it's unfair to call it an equivalent. Provided your wireless is not operating in the 700 mhz band which is now illegal and prone to more interference, the next thing to consider is line of sight between the transmitter and receiver. Then the distance. One trick to improving performance is to ensure that the antenna on the transmitter is not held tight against the talent's body. Even with the G3, more than 50' or so between the transmitter and receiver is asking for trouble.

Also, are you hearing interference or the noise of the the lav cable and clothing noise? Attaching a lav to minimize induced noise takes practice and skills. Moleskin and cotton is your friend. Silk and satin are evil. Newly purchased wardrobe should be laundered and not starched. Always loop and attach the lav cable to the talent separate from the mic attachment.

I am currently running 2 G3 systems and used within their limits they have performed perfectly. FYI, I'm running both in the A band.

2001 Productions said:
Yep. That's the equivalent of what I have (though mine is an older model), and it pops like the dickens. Any advice, Alcove, on how to minimize that?

(Short of buying a $3000 set, that is! :) )
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Thanks for the advice, gpforet. Mine is not a diversity system, so that's probably a big factor. I don't have it handy, but I believe the frequency defaults to 740, which you're saying is now illegal? I did not know that. So, basically I paid good money for equipment I can no longer use. That's swell.

Attaching the lav isn't an issue - I've been doing that for 30 years. The popping is definitely interference, not clothing noise. Nor is distance a factor, as I usually use it within 30 feet or less of the receiver.
 
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I guess I read it as if the FCC can fine you for using it, then that, at least to me, makes it illegal. Will you get fined? Probably not. Just like we get away with speeding (most of the time).

Here's the link to the FCC fact sheet. Interpret as desired.

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/wirelessmic_factsheet.html

Alcove Audio said:
It's not "illegal" but the FCC has set aside 698 MHz to 806 MHz for commercial and public safety uses, so you will need to migrate to another set of bands. This occurred on June 12, 2009.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/187024/fcc_tells_wireless_mics_to_get_off_700mhz_spectrum_band.html

http://gigaom.com/2007/03/14/700mhz-explained/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/700_Mhz_wireless_spectrum_auction

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...locations_Chart_2003_-_The_Radio_Spectrum.jpg
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Here's another scary quote from the FCC website:

"Because of the danger of interference with important radio communications services, continued use of wireless microphones in the 700 MHz band after June 12, 2010 may subject operators to severe penalties, including fines and imprisonment. "
 
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Aw, man, I just looked it up on the Senny web site. Turns out there was a rebate available for anyone who exchanged C-band equipment for a new system, but it expired June 30, 2010. I must not have registered mine so I never got the notice. Just friggin' shoot me. :mad:
 
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gpforet said:
I guess I read it as if the FCC can fine you for using it, then that, at least to me, makes it illegal.
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Sorry, GP, I'm in a nit-picky mood today.

Your post read sort of like the 700 MHz frequencies are now illegal - like Prohibition made liquor illegal - rather than the new regs delineated and restricted to whom and how the 700MHz band would be allocated. Rather lawyerly of me, I know, but I've been dealing with a lot of that kind of crap recently.
 
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