Why is the type of camera given more attention than DP skills?

steve gelder said:
I know I'm late to this thread, but - you can use any HD stock footage with the RED the same way you can use it with any other HD camera, right...? The RED is HD; they are not mutually exclusive.

gelder
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I was actually going to bring this up. There are plenty of reasons to shoot RED even if 1080p HD is going to be your final output. For example, shooting at a higher resolution would allow you do digitally zoom in post without losing resolution beneath 1080p. From previous posts I know that would be directly applicable to this project.

Skill is still very important, and I would take an amazing DP with an average camera over an average DP with an amazing camera.
 
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Editing software and processing power of the computer that will edit the footage is another consideration.

I got a plug-in for Vegas Pro to read the propriety format of my DPs camera that came with Windows Vista encoding for HD avi, which it didn't have before. HD avi taxes out a Dual Core 2. I can only imagine what RED would do to it.
 
"Skill is still very important, and I would take an amazing DP with an average camera over an average DP with an amazing camera."

I'd hire the amazing DP, try and get him for a lowball rate, and rent an amazing camera.

It's called "thinking like a producer".
 
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Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
Editing software and processing power of the computer that will edit the footage is another consideration.

I got a plug-in for Vegas Pro to read the propriety format of my DPs camera that came with Windows Vista encoding for HD avi, which it didn't have before. HD avi taxes out a Dual Core 2. I can only imagine what RED would do to it.
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I fully understand, I'm not trying to criticize you at all. I was just trying to get all the information out there. How's post production coming?
 
Gonzo_Entertainment said:
"Skill is still very important, and I would take an amazing DP with an average camera over an average DP with an amazing camera."

I'd hire the amazing DP, try and get him for a lowball rate, and rent an amazing camera.

It's called "thinking like a producer".
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Haha, sure. I still wouldn't dare hire an amazing DP to shoot on a RED camera he's never touched before. REDs can be complicated beasts, I wouldn't want my project to hinge on how fast he'd be able to learn during production.
 
SinEater said:
I fully understand, I'm not trying to criticize you at all. I was just trying to get all the information out there. How's post production coming?
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It's shaping up. I'm showing the rough cut to 2 of my crew guys and my cousin tonight. One more scene to put together after that. And, 2 scenes will be outsourced to animators. One of crew guys is my sound guy. And, I'll need his help to clean up the audio in a scene where the wind was blowing and too loud through some dialogue.
 
Some validity to that, though a good DP is probably also an experienced DP who has used a lot of different tools.

My DP comes from a 35mm film background. He was a union operator in LA for about 20 years, mostly on TV shows (like 90210) and on low budget (he did a couple of Roger Corman films) movies. He's shot on everything from a Panaflex Platinum to a 7D.
 
Going back to the OP, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that what makes a great DP is largely subjective (as long as you're considering people who are proficient, obviously there are bad DPs, too). A camera isn't. I can look at the specs on two cameras and tell you which one is better (or that they're effectively equal). I can look at the specs on a Red Epic and my GH1, and I can tell you the Epic is a better camera, without ever having actually used one.

I can look at the work of two proficient DPs and might not necessarily be able to tell you which one is "better". I could probably tell you which one I prefer, but you might disagree. It's subjective.

So to an extent, it's safer to talk about cameras than DPs. There are hard facts to back up your opinion with a camera, but no such thing exists with a DP.
 
Nate,

I have no problem with disagreement. I fully enjoy a good
argument. I do not like to jump anyone's case - that shows
disrespect. It isn’t about being friendly - I’m sure we would get
along well over drinks - it is about being respectful in
discussion. I apologize for giving you the impression I was being
disrespectful when offering my perspective. It is not the first
time you have called me on it. I do not feel I was jumping your
case, but you did, so I will be more careful.

You come from the professional point of view - I come from the
beginner point of view. I see most people here as financing their
projects out of their own pockets not because they are in a
“kiddie pool” but because they are not at the place of finding
outside investors yet.

When I comment on your posts it is - in my mind and intention - to
balance the professional method with the beginner method. I will
do my best to make that more clear so you do not feel I am jumping
your case.
 
I explain it this way to my cast. I always look at an artist before I look at the paint brush they use. A good DP like a good editor can make the best happen with the cheapest tools as well as the most expensive tools.

I showed the rough cut last night to 2 crew people and one of my cousins just to be clear. I needed to show it to my sound guy, so he knows what scenes needs some audio repair.

The rough cut was a big hit. One crew guy said it is light years ahead of the original I, Creator in every way. It is already almost as good as something The Assylum puts out. Once I get a good 3D animator with a look that works with what we are doing, it will be even better. We will need someone with a Sci-Fi look similar to my conceptual artist way of illustrating.

I personally wish I had more time than less than a week to shotlist a script with all the action scenes in the script.

Everyone loved my editing for the pacing, fast cuts, and special effects for what I'm working with. I learned from an editor who worked for over ten years with Canal Plus in Spain and France and a couple of years in London where he worked on the Lost In Space movie and the James Bond movie, Tomorrow Never Dies. He always told me to think of the pace of a video game. So, I edit that way.
 
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GuerrillaAngel said:
Huh? You're showing footage to the actors??!! Why?

IMO, bad, bad idea. Actors questioning format choice? Start calling for replacement ASAP! Just my opinion though.
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That was before the shoot.

Showing them clips from the footage was to set their minds at ease the production was going to look great. My DP showed a few clips he edited together, which made the actors curious. Once they saw how I was ediring the footage, they like it even more. Thay are willing now to wait for the screening party for the final cut.
 
SinEater said:
I was actually going to bring this up. There are plenty of reasons to shoot RED even if 1080p HD is going to be your final output. For example, shooting at a higher resolution would allow you do digitally zoom in post without losing resolution beneath 1080p. From previous posts I know that would be directly applicable to this project.

Skill is still very important, and I would take an amazing DP with an average camera over an average DP with an amazing camera.
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I'm looking into a software solution for digital zooms and pans being put out by NewBlueFx on their web site newbluefx.com called Background Generator where you choose a small piece on your video picture from and Background Generator blows it up to full screen with enhanced resolution. I know fractals can do stuff like that. I just haven't seen it applied as a plug-in for video editing and special effects software before.
 
garychencool said:
increased production value? fancy cameras that the guy knows how to use can help.

also, showing off their equipement, everyone does that.
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What good is a DP with RED who only shoots dialogue for a sci-fi movie with lots of action and greensscreen? I turned down a good 100 DPs with RED who never shot greenscreen and action. Skills and experience shine over a fancy camera. Plus you get better shots to edit in post.
 
It's just human nature. I use to think that camera mattered, picture wise, but now I see it's mostly knowing how to do the cinematography. There was a movie a few years ago that was released wide, can't remember what it was called, but it was shot in SD, so when you have a movie that does that big, and it's not even HD, that tells you that it's the DP that's more important.

Camera matters a little though, I mean there are some cams, that no one will use, so that probably says they are not good quality enough. There are some camcorders around $100-$200 dollars that have never been used to make a movie that was successful, so there is a limit I'm guessing.
 
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