why do small indie films need AD's and such

cheeseandachallenge said:
Well that's good. But what about the other people involved in your project? They're not going to want to spend unnecessary time on your project (even if they love it, they're not going to want it to drag on). Don't waste peoples time if you can help it - even if you personally have a lot of time.

But it seems you've made up your mind, and only you can know if you do really need an AD. Maybe you don't.

Awesome! Out of curiosity, what's your film about, if you can say? Is it a short? A feature? What are your resources and experience level.


So you're willing to have a "volunteer" on audio..? I take it this means someone who isn't experienced in production sound? You may want to look into the extremely complex world of production sound. But if you're willing to have a volunteer, why not also have someone "volunteer" as an AD? You talk about them being a waste of money, but it doesn't seem you're paying people, so you can afford an AD! You don't have to sacrifice creative control - they can just free you up to be more creative, while they manage the boring logistical stuff!


So you're doing this for a living? It doesn't sound like you have a heap of experience (correct me if I'm wrong).

The "making it happen" stuff is a fair bit of what the AD does - they keep the project on track, manage a lot of logistical stuff, while the director focuses on being an "artist."

Also, is someone not an artist if it's not their livelihood? I'd argue a lot of people (not all) in the film industry are far less artists than a lot of the people who hold 9-to-5s whilst creating something they're truly passionate about.


---

Again, it seems you've decided not to use an AD - I'm not arguing with you as you've made your mind up. That's fine. Go for it, everyone here will wish you the best. And please share some info about your project, it sounds ambitious and interesting. Would love to hear more about it.
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your points are very valid. I do other things in the arts as well. The AD thing i was still learning about . I dont have a mechanical script etc so its okay. I just need some more help.


I would argue that loving something ofcourse doesnt make you an artist. It is your livelyhood your life and your sacrifice. On top of all that you must be good and original. Lets get the definition back we cant all be artists. And we'd be cheapening what the great people of the past have done and who they were
 
GuerrillaAngel said:
I shot over 3 years and a couple years in post. Most of cast and crew ("helpers") off craigslist -- no one got paid. Film played in some festivals and won a few awards. I've been selling DVDs on Amazon for a while and just recently, you can "instant view" the film via Amazon as well. Haven't quite made back my investment, but getting there.

All I can say is beware of some people here insisting that films can only be made with a sizeable crew and with certain gear.

Good luck.
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cool thanks
 
Will Vincent said:
You've pretty well discredited yourself with this statement. You're either naive, or deluded.. but either way you clearly don't understand the importance of various roles on set. I might have been able to get on board with you opting not to have a 1st AD, but an "oh, yeah some schmoe who's never touched a boom can handle audio today" attitude makes you look like a tool.

You might call yourself an artist, but it's apparent now you really don't care about the craft of filmmaking.
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well sorry if i hit a nerve. but if a sequence goes awry thats what the studio is for
 
At the level of film making you/we are at, actors will mostly be terrible at doing ADR. A couple words here, a sentence there, maybe. Trying to get long stretches of dialogue replaced (because the boom guy didn't know what he was doing)., it will show, big time.
 
David, for your first few movies you will not need much of a crew.
Just a few helpers to do the jobs and everyone can double and triple
up. There will be challenges and some of the helpers will be better
at the specific jobs than others. But (as I already said) as you move
forward you will find that having specific people for specific jobs will
make the shoot smoother.

You will find that audio is a huge need. A skilled boomOp can save
hours in post as will a skilled recordist. You will find that having a
good First (AD) will save you (the director) a lot of time. I found this
out over many movies made with helpers. I know you will, too.
 
skilled boom op and PSM will also save you money and many headaches, but perhaps for your purposes, ADR makes more sense.

directorik said:
David, for your first few movies you will not need much of a crew.
Just a few helpers to do the jobs and everyone can double and triple
up. There will be challenges and some of the helpers will be better
at the specific jobs than others. But (as I already said) as you move
forward you will find that having specific people for specific jobs will
make the shoot smoother.

You will find that audio is a huge need. A skilled boomOp can save
hours in post as will a skilled recordist. You will find that having a
good First (AD) will save you (the director) a lot of time. I found this
out over many movies made with helpers. I know you will, too.
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This. It's best to learn what you need by doing. However, since you mention a studio, I hope you're not sinking too cash into this?
 
cheeseandachallenge said:
but perhaps for your purposes, ADR makes more sense.
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I once thought that. I learned my lesson. ADR is time consuming
and very, very difficult.

It was on a long short film (40 minutes) and no one was getting
paid - just using helpers. So we handed the boom to anyone available.
We then had to go back and record about 80% of the dialogue tracks.
Again, no one getting paid. If I had bit the bullet and hired a dedicated
boomOp for the shoot I would not have had to spend the next five
months wrangling actors schedules and other commitments. And since
none of us knew what we were doing it was a nightmare getting it right.
Which made the actors less willing to return and spend hours and hours
recording a few lines.

But I needed to learn the hard way. After that show I always paid a First,
a scripty and the audio team even if no one else was getting paid.
 
Oh, I totally agree. But Op seems to be insisting on using their "studio" - which to me reads as inexperience + excitement to use his resource (i.e. the studio). But perhaps there is some genuine reason for doing so (I can't think of many examples) in his case.

Otherwise, I feel most of the issues raised in this thread could be answered by experience. Op is insisting on using his studio, not using an AD or a professional audio team, despite warnings. Perhaps that is actually what is best for his production (and I certainly wouldn't call an AD necessary for a first production). Regardless, it doesn't seem warnings from people here are going to change his mind. Op will learn a lot more from making his film than reading this thread. I just hope he doesn't spend too much money doing so.
 
cheeseandachallenge said:
Op will learn a lot more from making his film than reading this thread. I just hope he doesn't spend too much money doing so.
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Understood.

I come form a different background. I spent all my money learning how
to make movies. I even when into debt. and I didn't regret a single penny
of it. when I was starting I couldn't think of a single thing I would rather
spend what little money I had on than making movies. I didn't buy my first
car (and I grew up in SoCal) until I was 24.
 
directorik said:
David, for your first few movies you will not need much of a crew.
Just a few helpers to do the jobs and everyone can double and triple
up. There will be challenges and some of the helpers will be better
at the specific jobs than others. But (as I already said) as you move
forward you will find that having specific people for specific jobs will
make the shoot smoother.

You will find that audio is a huge need. A skilled boomOp can save
hours in post as will a skilled recordist. You will find that having a
good First (AD) will save you (the director) a lot of time. I found this
out over many movies made with helpers. I know you will, too.
Click to expand...

i'm not making my first film for experience or to fail. I have something socially relevant that comes downs to emotion and actors. Sometimes you dont know how to write things until your in the locations which i have many. Every case is different.

But a couple people talking at a time i'm not worried. plus we've sort of gotten of the AD thing. For what i'm doing directing not everything is fixed. I know some people cant understand that but as i mentioned many dont understand the arts or an AD being a headache to an artist
 
davidevans10 said:
i'm not making my first film for experience or to fail. I have something socially relevant that comes downs to emotion and actors. Sometimes you dont know how to write things until your in the locations which i have many. Every case is different.

But a couple people talking at a time i'm not worried. plus we've sort of gotten of the AD thing. For what i'm doing directing not everything is fixed. I know some people cant understand that but as i mentioned many dont understand the arts or an AD being a headache to an artist
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i was looking for confirmation and got it


thanks guys
 
At the indie level, every dollar/minute you spend on production sound will save you a minimum of ten (10) in audio post.

An experienced PSM/Boom-Op thinks about things differently; they will hear sounds that you will not, especially sounds that will need extensive sonic surgery to correct in audio post. An experienced PSM/Boom-Op will, if you listen to him/her and follow their advice, save you the headaches of inexperienced actors performing huge amounts of ADR.

I won't even get into the myriad aspects of audio post. I was an experienced music recording engineer when I migrated to audio post, and it still took me quite a while to adjust my thinking and to learn & apply new techniques
 
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davidevans10 said:
I know some people cant understand that but as i mentioned many dont understand the arts or an AD being a headache to an artist
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An interesting statement from someone who has never used an
AD on the set. A rude put down to any director who has used an
AD mixed with a misunderstanding of what an AD does.

As the "artist" I prefer someone else to handle all the non-artistic
aspects of making a movie while I concentrate on directing - my
"art". That's what an AD does. Far from being a headache to an
artist the AD frees the artist from the minutia of little problems
that have nothing to do with creating art.
 
I just need some more help.
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You're getting a lot of it here. The only problem is you're ignoring it.

There's no problem with you doing it your own way. It sounds to me that you're more than happy with the production value that comes with a high school video project. All the best to you if that's the case. I truly hope you achieve what you set out to accomplish.

What gets my goad is you came in, asking why small indie films need AD's. You've received multiple positions on the topic and to me you're coming across as argumentative. There are a lot of people who are experienced in the area. You can take their advice or not.

The reason you don't see the value of a great AD is likely to come from never experiencing the differences in productions in which have a great AD and which have a bad AD or no AD. If you intend to become a professional in the industry it may be well worth experiencing how a set in where there is a budget is run. To outsiders it seems like there are a lot of inefficiencies, though what is used is the most streamlined system that can be used to organize the chaos that is a film set and make it run in the most efficient manner possible.
 
Sweetie said:
You're getting a lot of it here. The only problem is you're ignoring it.

There's no problem with you doing it your own way. It sounds to me that you're more than happy with the production value that comes with a high school video project. All the best to you if that's the case. I truly hope you achieve what you set out to accomplish.

What gets my goad is you came in, asking why small indie films need AD's. You've received multiple positions on the topic and to me you're coming across as argumentative. There are a lot of people who are experienced in the area. You can take their advice or not.

The reason you don't see the value of a great AD is likely to come from never experiencing the differences in productions in which have a great AD and which have a bad AD or no AD. If you intend to become a professional in the industry it may be well worth experiencing how a set in where there is a budget is run. To outsiders it seems like there are a lot of inefficiencies, though what is used is the most streamlined system that can be used to organize the chaos that is a film set and make it run in the most efficient manner possible.
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i got confirmation about my way being okay for me and why i dont need one. I mentioned alot of reasons why. you can drop it. Its not highschool just because there is no AD. guy i have a better film and bigger budget than you will ever have . No one on this site has ever even hired a music publicist . Dont talk to me about being professional i ask the right questions to know what i need. Most people never figure it out
 
'i have a better film and bigger budget than you will ever have"

Then I'd suggest using some of that budget to , you know, actually hire some people who know what the F they are doing.
 
davidevans10 said:
i got confirmation about my way being okay for me and why i dont need one. I mentioned alot of reasons why. you can drop it. Its not highschool just because there is no AD. guy i have a better film and bigger budget than you will ever have . No one on this site has ever even hired a music publicist . Dont talk to me about being professional i ask the right questions to know what i need. Most people never figure it out
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Now you're flat out insulting the entire community on this forum.. :no:

There doesn't seem to be much we can offer each other.. you us, or us you. Perhaps you're right. You're far beyond what we'll ever hope to become, so you might as well move along, get back to work on your film and leave us little people to wallow in self loathing and squalor.
 
Why would I hire a music publicist?

Composer, sound designer, boom operator, sound recorder coming along on a boattrip in the Dutch meadows to capture the sounds of birds, leaves, wind mills and water: check.
But never a publicist... indeed.

I'm curious: you mention ' the arts ' a lot.
What is your art? Your background?
(I'm interested in a geniune way. Somehow you've been eluding a lot of questions about you or the project.)
FYI I went to artschool. Although I must admit I have a Bachelor degree in Design.

BTW: when you are done with your project, I hope you will return here to show us :)
 
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