Why do directors/producers make changes to their scripts if actor's leave?

I see a lot of people being diplomatic and skirting around the issue of wanting to see H44's videos without actually asking him. I have no compunctions about being forward and pushy... it comes with age.

Harmonica, I (and many others) would truly like to see any of your videos that you'd be willing to share. Nobody expects you to be another Orson Welles, but we also know you're not a Tommy Wiseau... and I suspect that the positive feedback your videos would get from the members here would pleasantly surprise you. But if you're not interested in sharing or not comfortable at this time, we fully support and understand your decision and I promise not to sit in a corner and pout.
 
Maxsdad said:
I see a lot of people being diplomatic and skirting around the issue of wanting to see H44's videos without actually asking him.
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In the context of this thread, I can see how you'd think that. I assure you, we've asked, and asked, and asked, and asked, and asked. Most of the time, when we've asked to see his footage, it's been because he was asking a question about something he'd shot. Invariably, our response would be something along the lines of "well, I'm not entirely sure what it is your describing, why don't you post some footage?". But he ignores that, and chooses not to post any footage.

In fact, he ignores the overwhelming majority of any advice that has ever been given to him here. He's really good at pretending he never read it. We've taken to talking about him in the third person, which would normally be really rude, but I'm pretty sure he just skims past it.

Although I agree with Nick's point that H44 is under no obligation to show us anything, he's rather asshole-y to all of us. By constantly talking about his project, and constantly asking questions about how to make it better, without ever letting us see it, he's like a filmmaking dick-tease, and we've all got filmmaking blue-balls. If you don't want to show it to anybody, stop talking about it!

But I know one guy who's seen it! :P

It's like I finally had sex with my friend's kinda-hot mom. I felt dirty, kinda guilty, and loved every minute of it!
 
Well I don't mean to be a dicktease. I guess I just felt like showing something better or different for the first one I would show. But it doesn't look like I have been able to make another one just yet, cause of bad luck of finding people. Here's the one I could not complete, and this is what I got shot. The sound is bad, only cause I haven't been able to figure out how to get it to sound right or how to master my program well and work out the kinks.

But I probably should show it to get some feedback from people with experience, that do not know me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z24q8m_xNM
 
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But I probably should show it to get some feedback from people with experience, that do not know me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z24q8m_xNM
Click to expand...

Ok, I've just spent 13 minutes watching, so here's my feedback:

If ever there was an example of how important sound is- here we go. I know that you hadn't done any work on the sound, or done a score for the majority of it, but, as a result, parts were unwatchable. It exacerbates the weaknesses and draws attention to things that might otherwise go unnoticed.

The first half of the film isn't good. It's a slow back and forth. The dialogue is unclear and somewhat stilted. The younger actor (you?) seems to be struggling to appear realistic, and, as a result, the performance becomes very unbelievable. The dramatic walk-out of the lawyer's office is so camp that it looks like it might've come from a pantomime.

That said, you really come into your own as a director (and an actor) in the second half. The break-in scene needs a lot of sound work- and music will really help to heighten the tension- but in terms of fight choreography, it's quite brutal. The knife in the head moment made me squirm (even though I'd seen that bit before and knew it was coming). I think you know that the strikes with the baseball bat are unconvincing, but, all in all, it's a pretty well-directed scene.

The best bit of the film (and further evidence of how much it needs sound and music work) is when you flashback, with the dialogue and sound design muted, and just let the music washover. That stuff is genuinely good work- the sex scene is brutal and well shot, although I sort of wish you'd help a couple of the shots for longer rather than mixing it up so much. But there's good work there.

The ending is sick, as I assume it was intended to be. Violence against women is a sensitive topic and you portray it about as sensitively as battery acid, but I guess that you set out to produce something shocking and you've pretty much succeeded.

My advice: If you want to ever release this short, re-do the first half, making it briefer and more visually interesting. Try and iron out the weird inconstancies (why does the hero have facial hair in one scene and then not in the next?) and get some proper sound work done, especially on the latter half.
 
I don't think I want to redo it. The actors have moved on and we all just want to do other projects, including me. I didn't mean for that to be the final ending, I just didn't get it done, and tried to cut the story to make sense and conclude, the best I could.

The PSM and DP left two weeks before shooting, but I was told by people on here back then to shoot the project anyway, so the rest of the cast did not think I was a flake. Which is why I haven't been able to shoot a short since. They keep changing their minds, and I don't want to do sound and camera myself, cause since I am not a DP or PSM, it just comes off as unwatchable, so what's the point. Perhaps during the rape scene, I could have left some shots go on longer but I was trying to wrap it up and make it chaotic but making chaotic would have worked for longer shots too as well. There was one long shot I intended on using all the way through from the beginning, but it went out of focus during the camera movement, so I cut around that. I could have used other shots and held them longer though.

As far as it being sick goes, lots of revenge movies, especially indie ones, which I see at festivals and such, concentrate on the violence being even more graphic, with more gore. I wanted to make it shockingly DRAMATIC, rather than shockingly bloody and graphic, so I thought I held back somewhat. It's only a 13 minute short from the footage I got, so if it was a longer movie, I could deal with the violence more in depth, at least I hope.

The hero's facial hair changes cause a scene had to be shot earlier than intended, but I could do a fade or something to imply time passing maybe?

During the break in I actually wanted no music, thinking the silence would make it more suspenseful. *It would help if I could have ambience sounds though like a TV switched on or something. Other movies have used no music in scenes, when characters had to be quiet, or the enemy would hear and what not. Unless no music in this case, is different, and was a bad idea...

You will also notice that the color changes in some shots, but that's cause I was playing with color grading last time I worked on it, and could make it match in the end, if I were to show it off more.
 
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Nice short H44. For a beginner film, it's not bad.

Sometimes the dialogue is a bit unrealistic, and the audio peaks and/or cuts out. In other scenes, the audio pitch was too low. Make sure to set your levels, and check the audio in a loud scene, like when a character is yelling.

Your camera work isn't bad. Many of the shots are lit and framed well. There was a few dark shots in the apartment, but again - not bad. The only thing I would recommend doing is when filming, make sure that there aren't any "black areas". I'm not sure what the correct term for it is, but basically when a part of an image is so dark, two different objects blend together.

Despite a few unrealistic sounding lines and blocking that looks very forced, the acting isn't too bad. If you had better audio and a better script, you're short would improve 100%. You have an interesting idea and some interesting scenes, but the dialogue seems a bit amateurish.

The editing is okay. It's solid. But occasionally characters will be too far ahead or too far behind then they were in the previous shot.

Also, when the guy was falling down the stairs, for a split second "Media offline" flashed on the screen.

Some sound effects in the fight scene would be nice. When one of the characters gets kicked, there is no impact sound. That will make the scene more intense and interesting.

Holy $#!t. That last 2-3 minutes was intense.

I think if the film had better audio, a better script, and less violence at the end, it would have been much better. There were some suspenseful moments, and I think you have a lot of potential. I hope to see improvement and more work from you in the future.
 
Okay thanks for your input. The media offline is weird. I checked the original takes and their are still their, including the one I used. Weird. I should have made a perfect copy of the video before, but I recently decided to do a bit of a re-edit, after not looking at it for a longer while, before posting it. But I fixed the shot, it's back now. I also realize that one line of dialogue went missing too, and I will fix it. Since it was my first short and mistakes are made, I just decided to move onto other things, and practice, research, and help people on their movies. As far as sound effects go. Some I can't get to sound right like the kick or toilet head bang. Their are also sound effects in their, such as clothes making noises, but you can't hear it cause I couldn't figure out how to turn down the music, without it sounding strange.

But I think I may be done with this one now and have moved on for a while, since it didn't turn out well. This is why I want to wait for a DP, PSM, and a whole cast to stick to a project, before it turning out bad, and having the budget be a waste. This was a no budget short, but I'm going to pay next time, so I don't want it to be wasted and turn out badly cause I did too many tasks myself or actors will leave as well, etc.
 
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First of all, congratulations on getting something in the can. So, you just didn't talk the talk, you walked the walk.

At least now you know where you need to focus on your areas that need improvement. And, no one can take that away from you. Other posters here have given you the specifics on where to look to improve.

Getting back on topic, yes a script rewrite is necessary when actors drop out, especially main characters and supporting actors to make the story of the film whole. I had to do a fast rewrite with my cast and crew when the two cyborg villain character had attendance issues. One of the villains gain forty pounds from the time she was auditioned and could not fit into her costume and was to sick to rehearse stunts. The other was late all the time and had no sense of direction finding our shooting locations. So, she was cut too. As I said in a blog, thank the higher powers I wrote a script with layered characters and a layered story. So, I was able to still edit together a film with some sense of story. A layered story with layered characters is the best type of script for independent small filmmakers to use when we have to worry about divas and actors dropping out.

Here's more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Story_within_a_story

http://thewritepractice.com/how-to-use-layers-to-enhance-your-plot/

http://www.fromthewriteangle.com/2012/02/five-ways-to-create-memorable-multi.html

This is WAY more valuable than trying to write a non-linear story like a David Lynch. We don't have his budgets to have topnotch talent who won't flake. Remember, their is a whole greater leval of commitment and professianalism when you can afford to pay talent and your crew $1,000 to $1,000,000 a day over a cast and crew who gets paid $100 a day.

Good Luck.
 
Actually the next short I have in mind is probably a little less complex, in plot, and the locations are far more limited, so it should move along faster, I hope. I have also learned how to plan shots quicker I hope as well.

Right now I am swamped with other people's movies, but when they are done, I will get back to writing something. When you say that I am having blocking problems, could you be more specific? As far as characters being too far ahead than they were in previous shots, which shots are these? Thanks.
 
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Could you tell me the shots exactly? This could help for future shoots. My judgment of is compromised since it's my work and all. The actors were just acting kind of bumbling?

Some things I learned were that some of my shots are a little too high, and I am too tall and should have gotten the camera down more. I also could have used more camera movement. You can also see the lights in a couple of shots.
 
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Whoah. I didn't see that happening. Now I'm not sure if I've been using tough love, or if I'm just a bully. Either way, I'm gonna give you the best constructive critique I can. Gotta re-watch it, and I can't do that right now, but it was daring of you to release the incomplete work and you deserve constructive critique.
 
I visit these forums every once in a while and it seems like there's a lot of chatter going on about people dropping off projects, actors leaving, etc. Is this a normal thing for many people on the forums?

Perhaps it's one of the benefits of Guerrilla filmmaking. Get in quickly, shoot, get out. I used a DP for one project that I wrote and directed. GERMANITY. Haven't used a DP since. I never use lighting. Never use script supervisors. If you ask me, when you add these roles to a project on a small caliber, it just opens up room for failure. Of course that's not always the case... I try to take on most roles of a production and haven't had any issues with that process. My doors always open for people to view my work. Most of my posted work is testing but I have nothing to hide. Fire away boys and girls. https://vimeo.com/theopusfuller/videos

Wait can we post links if we don't have a pro account or is that frowned upon?
 
H44,
I haven't gotten a chance to watch your video yet...but I wanted to take a moment to congratulate you for releasing it.

The 1st movie one I did, a Christmas movie, I struggled for days debating on releasing the trailer..then the movie. Was it a great movie? No. But at least I put it out there. And that's a huge step. So for that, nice job.

Rewrites in scripts... In the film I posted up, we had a character, the inn keeper, never show back up to film what was a critical part. The "touching" scene of Joseph and Mary being shown the manger. I rewrote it on the fly by looking at what the story was...a story about a mans imagination. And created a new scene with a new fill in actor and a little movie magic to try and sell it.. Did it work? For the most part I think it did. No one even questioned WHY the inn keeper was a different actor. They assumed the man in the story was replacing him with a more serious inn keeper, removing some of the humor in his mind.

But the biggest thing I learned...all these "issues" are what makes this so darn fun. If everything went perfect, the excitement of thinking on your feet, adapting, creating would not exist... So maybe try and embrace your challenges as they come. It can add some excitement to the whole process :)

So good luck, and keep posting your work. It's how you get better :)
 
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