When to color grade, when to edit?

W

wheatgrinder

Hi all, I think Im doing something stupid! (you dont HAVE to agree:P)

I took some shots.
Im color grading those shots. (AE)
I plan to cut and trim the shots together to make the scene.(Premiere)

Im wondering if I should be doing it in this order instead...

Take the shots
Rough edit, trimming clips etc.(Premiere)
Color grade the trimmed clips from those shots(AE)
Edit, tweaking etc. (premiere)

I seem to be spending a LOT of time in color grading, and worry that Im wasting time tweaking a few seconds of a clip that are going to be cut anyway! I know I cant avoid that 100%, but seems I could be a bit more efficient.

Iv ALREADY figured out a few things that will help me in the future..
More pre production before shooting. My edits should be just picking out the RIGHT take and trimming off the ends of the take...

Plan the shot for ease of color grading, lighting, set design and wardrobe choices really impact the grading process!

Comments?
 
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Most people grade after the picture edit is locked for that reason, it also makes it much easier to make sure two shots in a scene match each other. If you colour correct first you might find after you edit them together that they don't match.

If its more of a documentary style shoot where you have a handful of long clips some people will grade first. This workflow means last minute editing doesn't require lots of regrading and you can focus on getting the story right.
 
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There's no right or wrong way, my friend. You are like any other artist: do what feels right. You're obviously aware of the perils of doing it in that order. The filmmaking cops aren't gonna bust down your door.

As a learning experience, color grading as you go will give you a mental picture of the images you're looking for, which in turn will help you refine your lighting technique.
 
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Edit first. Lock picture, then color grade.

You can open your premiere project file in AE, and each cut will get its own layer on the timeline, then you can use a script to drop an adjustment layer over each of those, trimmed to the size of each cut..

Use those adjustment layers to do your initial color correction (matching colors, contrast, etc) between shots in a scene.

Then use additional adjustment layers for each scene, or the entire film to give it a 'look'

This workflow preserves image quality until the final render because you won't have done any rendering until that point.

Read the DV Rebel's guide.
 
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Ha!

You can take my mouse when you pry it from my cold, dead, Cheetos dust encrusted fingers!



Define "lock picture" (I can guess, but Im wrong at least 50% of the time:P)

Oh, and when to add the Visual FX's? For example in my little test project I have some muzzle flashes to add. Seems to make sense to do that after I edit, though on the other hand, it would be easier to work with a "flat" VFX shot that was already done (minus color) .. tricksky..

Thanks
 
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Will Vincent said:
Oh no... the dreaded triple cut! *gasp* and crossing the line...

:lol:

The color grading is looking good. :)

It kind of looks like she's trying not to laugh in the first shot
Click to expand...


Strange, I never heard of a triple cut, but now that you said it, I can see how growing up on 1970's TV has inculcated what I assume are film cliches, into my deepest, internal vision.. cool.. Iv never studied movies, or TV, I just consumed it.. in MASS QUANTITIES.. (which explains something about me I think!)


It seems like shot 1 and 2 are on the same side of the line, though number 2 is reversed.. at 0:11 I think I cross to the wrong side... after that, i get confused by the glory of the triple cut!

Hahha.. Me an the actor were having too much fun!

This is both of us just getting started!
 
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I think I get it..

If the actor had exit to the RIGHT of the frame on the first shot, would the 2nd still be on the wrong side of the line? (Iv been assuming were talking about that 180 rule thing..)
 
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wheatgrinder said:
I think I get it..

If the actor had exit to the RIGHT of the frame on the first shot, would the 2nd still be on the wrong side of the line? (Iv been assuming were talking about that 180 rule thing..)
Click to expand...
Exiting on the right of the frame in the first shot might make the second shot feel even more odd.. I'm having a hard time visualizing it at the moment (lack of sleep)... easy way to find out though, just do a horizontal flip on the first shot and see if it feels right

Then you'd be on the right side of the line, but changing screen direction.

The better solution would be to have the actor enter the frame in the second shot from the other side of the camera, skip the first two of the shots with the gun, and cut right to the final shot.

Or, first shot, cut before she exits, show the chicken coop, to show what she's looking at, then cut to the final shot for the gunshots, and final exit of frame
 
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I seem to have discovered a rule of "doubles and halves"

In estimating:
Double your inputs and half your outputs.

Twice as much time behind the camera than expected,
Twice as much time on the computer
Twice as much time in edit
Twice as much time in VFX
resulted in about halve the amount of usable footage as expected..

doh!
 
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You shouldn't expect to be able to use even half of the footage you shoot.. if you are you're either particularly gifted, or holding on to too many babies.. ;)

A realistic shooting ratio is 6:1, and that's on the low end.
 
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2001,
That was the point of this exercise. I tried to run the entire process.. script -> pre planing -> story boards -> shoot ->edit -> color grade -> vfx .. (still have sound and render to finish up this test)

I'm learning the process the hard way! Making lots of mistakes along the way.. But making them on one scene rather than the entire film! (I know, I know, its almost futile, but almost is better than completely futile!)

Im trying to prove (to my self) that I can even get close to something I can be proud of, and so far it feels "doable."

I'm also assembling what I really "NEED" to make something happen. So far Iv stayed away from the "new camera" jones, there was a close call, thank goodness the guy didn't take up my offer to pay via paypal!

As of today I know:
  • My computer can edit SD pretty well
  • What white balance is and how to tweak my light kit to work with it
  • More light is almost always the right answer.
  • I can exercise all features of my camcorder.
  • I can visualize something and with enough hard work, actually SEE it on the screen. This is quite empowering by the way!
  • Show don't tell
  • Flashbacks are cheap
  • ...
  • ellipsis are useful in film (tangent when researching 180 rule)
  • ...
 
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