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When should you start promoting your independent film?
- Thread starter Conroy Films
- Start date
Um. Nice spam. Thanks.
Was that considered spam because it was on the wrong forum? Either way, gonna be a great film so I'm starting to plan the promotional plan. I am going to try and pre-sell the movie before it comes out. Sorry if this is spam. I've never been called a spammer before. And I like it. Peace.
SPAM SUCKS
When it is available to be seen.
and preferably NOT served with SPAM. Coming to a discussion forum, asking a question, but unabashedly just wanting people to love your movie without a conversation probably isn't good promotion. I didn't look at the link and have now lost all interest in checking it out.
When it is available to be seen.
and preferably NOT served with SPAM. Coming to a discussion forum, asking a question, but unabashedly just wanting people to love your movie without a conversation probably isn't good promotion. I didn't look at the link and have now lost all interest in checking it out.
No offense, but I looked at your website. Having an image of an "Oscar" Statue on an indie film site is probably worse than spamming. It definately makes you a target of harsh critism. Sorry about that. Just my humble opinion 
While I agree with the rest of your post, I disagree with this. Waiting until the film is done to start promoting it is pretty old school and doesn't make sense anymore now that it's so much easier to reach and engage an audience vie the internet. The goal is to have a bunch of people ready to buy as soon as the film is available - which means you have to start finding those people long before the film is complete.
I agree with that for Studio films. If you have an "indie" feature with no name stars, no budget, or any film festival laurel leaves.... what is it that is appealing about the film, the website, or anything to do with it to draw people in?
What specifically engages an audience via the Internet?
Why would the average, non-filmmaker want to see images or updates about people they don't know or a film they have never heard of?
What promotions appeal to the general public for a film with no actors they recognize or behind the lens talent they have don't know?
Of course the GOAL is to have a bunch of people ready to buy the film as soon as it is available, but I think until the film is completed and going to be screened at festivals, I don't understand what the actual point of doing a lot of promotion achieves in this current market for feature length films. I can totally see your point with certain specialty films, IE like a bowling movie being marketed with trailers to bowling leagues, etc. but for most standard narratives there is no niche to cater too. Even then, what goal is achieved by marketing a movie they cannot see or buy? Hoping they remember it a year or two later when the DVD is for sale? What was gained by the early marketing as opposed to when the marketing can directly result in a sale?
I think some films/filmmakers can answer each of these questions because their film can fit the bill, but most never consider these before making a movie or even start marketing. I hope many of the filmmakers on this site who have made or are making a feature will answer the above questions. It would benefit everyone to get your insights.
I love the criticism. I was really tired when I type the original post. As we start collecting actors and locations for our film they will be placed on the site. Putting all the actors' name will hopefully get his/her friends and relatives buzzing. Trying to get some cool free locations. Landed a strip joint for free today, if I do it before hours. All types of cross promotions and marketing. I think my movie is going to be so good, that I want to make sure so many people hear about it.
pro·mote/Verb: 1.Further the progress of (something, esp. a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage.
2.Give publicity to (a product, organization, or venture) so as to increase sales or public awareness.
First step in anything is to believe in what your doing. Thanks for the kick in the balls. Hopefully we'll meet at Sundance.
pro·mote/Verb: 1.Further the progress of (something, esp. a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage.
2.Give publicity to (a product, organization, or venture) so as to increase sales or public awareness.
First step in anything is to believe in what your doing. Thanks for the kick in the balls. Hopefully we'll meet at Sundance.
I agree with all your points, but I think they only underscore the need to start thinking about and actively promoting your film before it's done. All of those questions are equally valid whether we're talking about a work in progress or a finished film; the sooner you start answering them the sooner you're likely to figure out how to sell your film to an audience.
These are the kinds of questions people should be actively answering before they even start shooting - i.e. if you are about to shoot a film, what is it about the script that makes it worth shooting? What is it about the actors you've cast that make it worth putting them on screen? If you can't answer questions like those, or if the answer truly is "nothing", then why are you making this particular film in the first place? But if you can answer them, then you've also got a starting point to begin marketing the film - you just need to figure out how to communicate to a potential audience the things you believe make the project worth doing in the first place.
The simplest example I can think of would just be having a link on your site where people can sign up to be notified when the film is screening/available for purchase. Once you've got their email it doesn't matter if they forget for a year - you can send them an email to actively jog their memory.
And it goes back to your earlier question about why someone would have any interest in a film with no known quantities. By making them aware of the film early on - before you are asking them to buy anything - you are starting a process of familiarity so that it hopefully IS a known quantity to them when you do get around to asking for their money.
OH, FUCK! You're using a child as your lead?! This is your first feature, as a producer or anything else, no? And your director is completely new to filmmaking, no? Plus, he's kind of an asshole?
Child actors are very difficult to work with.
You're not making it easy on yourself. I promise -- I'm not hating on you; I only wish for the best. I just don't think this is going to work out so great. If you want to be a filmmaker, my honest advice is that you scrap this project, and figure out a new one.
Child actors are very difficult to work with.
You're not making it easy on yourself. I promise -- I'm not hating on you; I only wish for the best. I just don't think this is going to work out so great. If you want to be a filmmaker, my honest advice is that you scrap this project, and figure out a new one.
You guys here are all a bunch of Debbie Downers! Guess thats part of the process. I never once said my director was an asshole. I had an original post asking to explain the director/producer relationship. It's all been worked out. He's very a good director and one reason this film will succeed. I'm not going to go on much further defending myself. Oppinions are like assholes, and it seems like a lot of them stink on this site. If you truly believe in your project, you'll promote it to anyone who will listen. Someday, maybe you'll change your mind, and become one of "The Lucky Ones". www.theluckyones.biz
To answer the question that you weren't really asking, I think somewhere inbetween sonnyboo and ItDonnedOnMe's opinions...plan for promotion now, but start doing it when you have something to show. Teaser or a trailer? Get that out there. Production stills? That's a great time to begin. Haven't cast yet? Well, you might not want to blow your opportunity for "first looks" when there's nothing to see. First impressions are VERY important in promotion, and right now there's nothing to distinguish your project from a thousand others that never actually get made. I'm not saying yours won't, but from an outside observer's perspective, it doesn't seem promising. All that said, promotion isn't my strong suit, so take that with a grain of salt. Or a shaker, I don't mind 
This site can be harsh. Most of the people here are speaking from a degree of experience, and we all want to see everyone do the best they can. So people tend to treat other's films as they would their own; tearing into it in order to shape it into the best it can be. It's coming from a good place though. We're all in this together, and we really do want everyone to reach their goals, whatever they are.
With that in mind, I have observed a common mistake new members have with this site. We are not your market. We are your peers. "Donate to my film" doesn't work as well as "help me improve my donation campaign" (after all, most people here are using their funds for their OWN films). "Buy my film" doesn't work as well as "watch this scene and tell me what I can improve on." In fact, the latter seems sort of implicit in the screening room!
These are not mutually exclusive; often the people who give you feedback and criticism today WILL end up watching and/or buying your film when it's done. We are all film fans here, with taste that leans towards the indie. However, the purpose of the site is CREATING film, not consuming it, so that's where the focus of the discussion usually is.
Good luck with your film! I do agree with Cracker; getting children involved is not easy. Hopefully you or your director have experience working with children!
This site can be harsh. Most of the people here are speaking from a degree of experience, and we all want to see everyone do the best they can. So people tend to treat other's films as they would their own; tearing into it in order to shape it into the best it can be. It's coming from a good place though. We're all in this together, and we really do want everyone to reach their goals, whatever they are.
With that in mind, I have observed a common mistake new members have with this site. We are not your market. We are your peers. "Donate to my film" doesn't work as well as "help me improve my donation campaign" (after all, most people here are using their funds for their OWN films). "Buy my film" doesn't work as well as "watch this scene and tell me what I can improve on." In fact, the latter seems sort of implicit in the screening room!
These are not mutually exclusive; often the people who give you feedback and criticism today WILL end up watching and/or buying your film when it's done. We are all film fans here, with taste that leans towards the indie. However, the purpose of the site is CREATING film, not consuming it, so that's where the focus of the discussion usually is.
Good luck with your film! I do agree with Cracker; getting children involved is not easy. Hopefully you or your director have experience working with children!
It is cool to get the harsh critiscm. You should see what I would do if we were face to face. I have tossed these thoughts through my mind on each issue. Shooting will begin March 25th, over Spring break and the child will be more of a pretty face than a shakesperean actor. Being the producer, I'm trying to organize everything and get the best of everything. Example, asking for the first location yesterday, strip club for my bar scene. Knots in stomach, never done this before, asks the door man if they ever did a movie shoot in here before? "Oh yeah, all the time, let me get Dean." Dean rolls out, friend of a friend, 2 free days of shooting in a strip club. All by asking. This "bizness" is made on dreams and hustle. Can't wait to ask more questions, I love to get beat up. It teaches you to get up and try again.
My film's goal: To be self distributed in my home town theatres, to atleast recoup some of the money I'm putting out to make this master piece. We are having pre-production meetings daily and first auditions on Friday. I'd like to push the envelope as far as possible, it's an R-rated film. Was gonna try and make it different than everybody else's film. How else would it get noticed? World premiere at Sundance in the NEXT category. The rest of the films in the category mysteriously dissappear, Team Lucky Wins. Ballsy! Why not?
Thanks.
www.theluckyones.biz
My film's goal: To be self distributed in my home town theatres, to atleast recoup some of the money I'm putting out to make this master piece. We are having pre-production meetings daily and first auditions on Friday. I'd like to push the envelope as far as possible, it's an R-rated film. Was gonna try and make it different than everybody else's film. How else would it get noticed? World premiere at Sundance in the NEXT category. The rest of the films in the category mysteriously dissappear, Team Lucky Wins. Ballsy! Why not?
Thanks.
www.theluckyones.biz
Excellent post.
And honestly, once you have nice images and such to share with outlets that would be interested in the material regardless of names, you SHOULD start doing it.
I thought the same thing, that nobody would really care, but I think that's just from hearing other filmmakers talk. We started sending little clips and stills to blog outlets and different people while we were shooting, by the time the trailer was out several of them--one major film blog, a few very serious comic fan websites, ran it with positive words.
That is a huge promotional tool, and from that we did get a lot more opportunities. We compiled what we've gotten so far to help out with pushing it later on. Now it's just a matter of finishing up and creating a new, tighter, more polished trailer.
I think Donned's advice is right, you should be figuring out these questions before you even shoot, and then you do need to start contacting people to get the word out, even if you think noone will care.
If nobody knows who you are or what you're doing, then you're just talking to yourself. =T
I'm sorry you think my opinion smells like poo-poo. I guess that's a fairly natural reaction to such blunt words. I see that you're married to this project, and I understand that -- I've been there. So, I'll discontinue with my advice to scrap the project and start a different one. If I can explain where my advice is coming from, perhaps I can convince you of something less drastic than starting over.
I know you never called your director an a-hole. But the way you described him in your other thread, he sure does sound like one. If the producer (the boss) comes to the director (his subordinate) and asks to go over blocking, and the director responds by saying, "The director does that", yep, that director is an asshole. Communication is arguably a director's most important skill, and he seems to be seriously lacking in that department.
You say that he is a great director, but what are you basing that on? He's never directed a film! Directing theater and directing film are NOT the same thing. Of course there's cross-over, as far as working with actors is concerned, but there's a whole lot more to it than that. He might turn out to be a great director, but he is not one. He is a rookie director.
You are a rookie producer. So your #1 and #2 people in charge are rookies, making a feature film. Some people might say you should hone your skills by making a few shorts, first. And by some people, I mean myself and almost every other filmmaker I know. If your first project is to be a feature, fine, so long as the only reason you're doing it is for the experience/fun/learning.
Knowing all of that, I chose not to say anything, especially since I know full well what it's like to make a movie that goes against the odds. But when I learned that your lead actor is to be a child, that was just too much for me to stay silent. I don't think you realize how much more difficult this is going to make shooting your film. I hope you've budgeted a WHOLE bunch of time for shooting.
So, my revised piece of advice is this -- you should at least consider the possibility of re-writing that lead character as a plucky teenager, then cast a young-looking college freshman. Seriously, this would make things SO much easier for you.
You've already got a lot on your plate -- much more than you now realize. Why confound it with a child actor? I think your odds of success will be much greater with an older actor/actress.
I know you never called your director an a-hole. But the way you described him in your other thread, he sure does sound like one. If the producer (the boss) comes to the director (his subordinate) and asks to go over blocking, and the director responds by saying, "The director does that", yep, that director is an asshole. Communication is arguably a director's most important skill, and he seems to be seriously lacking in that department.
You say that he is a great director, but what are you basing that on? He's never directed a film! Directing theater and directing film are NOT the same thing. Of course there's cross-over, as far as working with actors is concerned, but there's a whole lot more to it than that. He might turn out to be a great director, but he is not one. He is a rookie director.
You are a rookie producer. So your #1 and #2 people in charge are rookies, making a feature film. Some people might say you should hone your skills by making a few shorts, first. And by some people, I mean myself and almost every other filmmaker I know. If your first project is to be a feature, fine, so long as the only reason you're doing it is for the experience/fun/learning.
Knowing all of that, I chose not to say anything, especially since I know full well what it's like to make a movie that goes against the odds. But when I learned that your lead actor is to be a child, that was just too much for me to stay silent. I don't think you realize how much more difficult this is going to make shooting your film. I hope you've budgeted a WHOLE bunch of time for shooting.
So, my revised piece of advice is this -- you should at least consider the possibility of re-writing that lead character as a plucky teenager, then cast a young-looking college freshman. Seriously, this would make things SO much easier for you.
You've already got a lot on your plate -- much more than you now realize. Why confound it with a child actor? I think your odds of success will be much greater with an older actor/actress.
Aside from blind optimism, can you answer more specifically each of my questions above?
I haven't seen your site, mostly because the fake spam in the guise of an actual discussion that someone could learn from doesn't appeal to my sense of wanting to see what it is about.
So, maybe you can explain to me WHY with specificity someone should actually pay attention and give a hoot about your specific movie.
FIRST TIME FILMMAKER SYNDROME is alive and well. You're excited about your first film and even though statistically, you have a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance of getting INTO Sundance with no connections to anyone in the selection committee and no recognizable, marketable names associated with your film - you believe it's gonna make it. Yes, you genuinely have a chance, but it is very remote. Your optimism is not preparing you for the possibility of other outcomes. Have realistic goals and expectations and you can find better successes.
I think his focus may be on the wrong outcome too - you have to start with your focus on making the absolute best film you can, and any further success will generally be dependent on how successful you are with that. You don't make a winning film by planning to win festivals.
And there's a hard truth in that for the first-time filmmaker - the absolute best film you can possibly make is probably not very good. That's no reason not to make it, in fact quite the opposite - you've got to make the bad ones to learn the lessons that enable you to make a good one. I think it was Robert Rodriguez who said everyone's got about 30 bad films in them, so the sooner you get started making films the sooner you can get past the bad ones. The actual number may be debatable, but I think the point is absolutely valid, and it's also the reason most people start with short films rather than features.
As an aside - I think it also bodes well for the future of quality filmmaking, as we're hitting the point for the first time in history where there's a critical mass of up and coming filmmakers who will have had the opportunity to get their 30 bad films out before they unleash their work on the broader public.
Ballpark figures- 9000 entries- 200 make it. Let's say 2% make it. So, I don't even need connections and I have already upped my odds from 1 in a million. Ironically, it will be edited up around submission time and you probably get a yes or no by December. So, Sundance here I come. I shoot for greatness, in reality, I'll take very good. Thanks for your thoughts. Peace.
And if you truly believe that the selections for Sundance really are simply send in the DVD and everyone is given equal chances, I have a bridge for sale with a really affordable interest rate. You are competing for slots against SPIKE LEE, KEVIN SMITH, and that caliber of recognizable, bankable names. I think you may want to include those probabilities in your calculations. You really have less than 1 in a million odds with the Sundance Film Festival.
SUNDANCE PROGRAMMER "Hey guys, which movie will sell more tickets, is more likely to find distribution, and get us more press.... a new 'indie film' from SPIKE LEE where Chris Rock will come see it or some guy from wherever?"
SUNDANCE DECIDER PERSON - "I feel like seeing empty theaters, so lets go with the guy with no name and no stars, but a lot of confidence. Money and fame are over rated and we don't really need to worry about sponsors feeling they got their money's worth so I don't need to keep my job".
So... aside from your blind optimism, why would someone want to see promotions about your movie with no name stars or established talent behind the camera again?