Ever read a book by Harry Beckwith called Selling the Invisible? Sundance is my goal. I'm an optimistic fresh new film maker. The movie will be finished by early submission time, and will definately be worthy. I also didn't open up your boo boo website. Do you piss on peoples parades their too?
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When should you start promoting your independent film?
- Thread starter Conroy Films
- Start date
I honestly support your optimism. Seriously, dude, you and I are in the same boat. Shoot for the stars and you might reach the moon, right?
I can't speak for Sonnyboo, but I can say that he's been very helpful to me, as well as a whole lot of other people on here. He has some kick-ass tutorials that you should probably check out.
To speak for myself, I can only reiterate that my honest and blunt criticisms of your strategies are coming from a place of wanting to help. Professionally, I'm just a bartender, but in the context of this thread it is worth noting that I've got a heck of a lot more filmmaking experience than you. I'm trying to communicate the fact to you that filmmaking has a rather steep learning-curve. Your first film is going to be difficult. My advice was given in hopes that you might find a way to make that first film less-difficult.
On the Sundance-note. Forget it. Research Slamdance. That's the festival you want to get into (it worked for Chris Nolan).
There's optimism and realism. Can you, for the umpteenth time, tell me WHY you believe Sundance will program your movie instead of someone like Spike Lee, Kevin Smith, or movies with stars like Shannyn Sossamon, Michael Cera, Jason Ritter, Amanda Seyfried, Edward James Olmos, Lou Diamond Philips, etc.?
Shoot for Sundance, but be ready for rejection and be ready to keep on submitting and trying. Are you prepared for several months of constant rejection letters and STILL think your film is 'worthy'? How much $$$ do you have budgeted for film festival submission fees? With an average cost of $50, 20 festivals is $1,000.
I'm not trying to shit on your parade, I'm trying to prepare you for the realities so you CAN succeed and continue to try when your singular unrealistic goal is not met.
Please don't threaten our members.
To answer the original post as an actual question, as soon as you move from development to pre-production is a great time to start letting the world know about the production. The more excitement you can generate before the project lands, the bigger Word of Mouth audience you'll have when it does.
As for the community reaction you're getting here... dishonesty in your marketing will be met poorly. You came here to a site with an established community and did create spam in a spam free zone (we have places for that - as stated specifically in the forum rules at the top level of the forum). You've also now offered a veiled threat to our members because you failed to do your due diligence on the community here by hanging out for a bit first before posting your promotion.
We would be extremely remiss as filmmakers to not appreciate when folks want to promote their films (what comes around, etc...) but there are community expectations which, when not followed, lead to a negative reception.
So, we'll start again:
Welcome! I'm excited to see how your project shapes up.
And that is a stellar example of wasted promotion. How does that equate to sales? How does speaking randomly to just your circle of influence affect entry into Sundance or distribution with a major company?
And yet cannot discuss the any of these thoughts or speak to the actual issues related to your topic.
I'll ask another question that will be treated as rhetorical... Why will your film be selected for the Sundance Film Festival as opposed to everyone else who submits? What makes your story so much more worthy than theirs?
These are not pointed questions because everyone who ever submits has an answer.
I don't think this was intended as a threat. I think he means he would answer passionately about his project.
Or stare blankly as he cannot formulate an actual answer to anyone who doesn't think he's the next Soderberg or Paranormal Activity just because he's passionate about his movie.
Well, I promote my films out of the gate (although I don't expect that sundance will accept them) ad naseum (no so much here, but face to face out in the world to anyone who will listen). Just now, I'm working on building mindshare that will eventually turn into revenue (hopefully).
I could care less about festival accolades (although they would be a nice addition to my prospectus), my current goal is trying to offset my equipment, budget and time investments I've made over the past 8 years building my craft to an acceptable level -- mind you starting with a feature
... so I fully support you just diving right in... my targets shifted strongly after that experience as the realities of my skillset hit me in the face.
Go for it. Have the big dreams which will drive you forward... we all would be hard pressed to say there wasn't a time when we promoted the bejeezus out of some project that didn't live up to the hype (SB: probably for you something prior to HoW which was really cool so far as I'm concerned).
While it seems like folks are hoping you won't hit the same disappointments some new filmmakers hit just diving in head first... I say go for it. You can't learn if you don't fail. (not intended as a negative statement). I developed and shot a feature... I failed hard, I learned, I'd ABSOLUTELY do it again, in a heartbeat.
I could care less about festival accolades (although they would be a nice addition to my prospectus), my current goal is trying to offset my equipment, budget and time investments I've made over the past 8 years building my craft to an acceptable level -- mind you starting with a feature
... so I fully support you just diving right in... my targets shifted strongly after that experience as the realities of my skillset hit me in the face.Go for it. Have the big dreams which will drive you forward... we all would be hard pressed to say there wasn't a time when we promoted the bejeezus out of some project that didn't live up to the hype (SB: probably for you something prior to HoW which was really cool so far as I'm concerned).
While it seems like folks are hoping you won't hit the same disappointments some new filmmakers hit just diving in head first... I say go for it. You can't learn if you don't fail. (not intended as a negative statement). I developed and shot a feature... I failed hard, I learned, I'd ABSOLUTELY do it again, in a heartbeat.
Well, that makes a good point too. Promotion before you have a movie completed can be a double edged sword. Ask Quentin Tarantino. His first actual film never got finished. He promoted it and promoted it, but since it never got finished because an accidental fire at the lab destroyed the original negatives for more than half the film, it was all in vain. It hurt his reputation until he started selling scripts and made RESERVOIR DOGS.
More than a million things can prevent a feature film from being finished, especially in this tapeless world we now find ourselves in. Won't you look the fool, to friends and family, or worse - the press and investors if, for totally legitimate reasons, cannot finish the movie you tout so proudly? Or even more simply, for reasons beyond your control the movie you haven't made yet ISN'T Sundance worthy, even by your own standards? Seems like a lot of self-destructive time wasting to promote that before you know for sure.
To me, these all sound like better reasons NOT to promote before the movie is finished.
Of course, I'd make exceptions if you have a significant monetary investment and have name stars in your film or known talent on the "above the line". At that point, promotion is simply a part of the business of selling the film, whether it's good or not. You have a product and the marketability of the talent means it has market value. As I oft say, it's the "Business" half of "Movie Business". The quality of the film becomes less important when you have name stars and a marketable product. The market is so over saturated with indie films with no name stars and unknown filmmakers that they have no value, at least not in terms of tens of thousands of dollars, or the misleading millions of dollars.
Not so long ago, we had a poster on this site who claimed he would be a millionaire by now from Video On Demand in November of 2011. It clearly didn't happen and he didn't make really more than a couple nickles he can rub together for heat since he can't afford a gas bill.
The hubris of FIRST TIME FILMMAKER SYNDROME is common. Having a dose of reality is not the same as telling someone they'll never make it. Work hard, do the best job you can, but for heaven's sake - HAVE REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS. Everyone love's their own work to a certain degree. Put it in front of an audience, especially an unbiased, unrelated to friends and family group of strangers and see how they feel about it. Learn from the differing opinions and grow as an artist.
I am not advising anyone anywhere to NOT submit to Sundance. I suggest everyone do it at least once. Just don't be surprised OR discouraged when your movie is more than likely to be rejected. Keep trucking. Keep making movies. Keep submitting to film festivals. Statistically, your movie(s) are unlikely to make it into Sundance or any of the other ____dance festivals. What are you prepared to do then? How long will you keep submitting to film festivals? How much money will you spend on submission fees?
The path of the successful filmmaker is not an easy one or for the weak willed. Sometimes it takes a decade or two and for some people a few weeks. Very few (if any) people who go around on the internet claiming they will get into Sundance actually do.
Have faith in your film. Make it the best piece of cinema you can. Right now I'm searching for a producer of marketing & distributurship. I'm gonna fly my film to Sundance, hand deliver it to someone with 2 hundred dollar bills taped behind it.
"Oh", " Is the indie film "The Lucky Ones" I've heard so much about on the web and news print?" And I would reply "Yeah. It kicks ass. Here's $200 to make sure someone watches it". Wink wink. Please don't tell me it can't be done.
Case closed. I don't see a glass half full or half empty. In my small time in the film industry, it's just the same as any other business. It's not what you know sometimes, but who you know. Funny thing is ,now, people want to "know" me because I'm producing a movie.
The best way to get a man to do something, is to tell him he can't do it.
Filming starts March 24th
Funny tidbit I learned this weekend. On average, the lazy VOD veiwer looks for his films alphabetically. Should I change my film name from "The Lucky Ones" to "A Lucky One"? Could mean thousand over the life of the movie.
Ever heard of this movie coming out soon called "The Lucky Ones"?
Peace.
"Oh", " Is the indie film "The Lucky Ones" I've heard so much about on the web and news print?" And I would reply "Yeah. It kicks ass. Here's $200 to make sure someone watches it". Wink wink. Please don't tell me it can't be done.
Case closed. I don't see a glass half full or half empty. In my small time in the film industry, it's just the same as any other business. It's not what you know sometimes, but who you know. Funny thing is ,now, people want to "know" me because I'm producing a movie.
The best way to get a man to do something, is to tell him he can't do it.
Filming starts March 24th
Funny tidbit I learned this weekend. On average, the lazy VOD veiwer looks for his films alphabetically. Should I change my film name from "The Lucky Ones" to "A Lucky One"? Could mean thousand over the life of the movie.
Ever heard of this movie coming out soon called "The Lucky Ones"?
Peace.