When do you decide that enough is enough?

Clive,

Making it in the movie business is tough. It takes three things: talent, patience and luck. The first two make the last one, but there's no timetable on luck. For some it happens in days or months and others it's years or even decades.

I took a break from filmmaking (ok, not a fulltime break, I did shoot one feature during my break) for two years when I took time off, moved back to Ohio for family reasons. I ended up teaching video production and found it very rewarding, but something said come back to filmmaking, so I moved back to LA. I was geared up to make movies, but the big project I came back to shoot was pulled out of my hands (a long story.) I was throw out of wack. The next year was tough. Then at the start of this year I was up for a $800,000 movie. After two months of heavy pre-production, the whole thing went belly up. There was no money. I had $8000 worth of rubber checks written to me. I was ready to pack it in, but got an offer to shoot a micro budget horror feature. Then I ended up shooting 6 features (3 on DV, 1 on Super-16, 1 on HD and the last one on 35mm) in the last 8 months.

So life sounds great, but at the end of all that work, I'm still not where I'd like to be money wise. Everyday I ask myself what the hell am I doing? I love the work, but wonder when I'll be financially sound. I'm nearing 20 years in the biz with over 20 features and numerous other credits. Some days I think I shoot because I don't know how to do anything else, but I know that's not true.

There are lots of options for you and me. If you need a break, I say take it, but don't make it a permenant change yet. Take some time to taste different things. If they please you more than filmmaking, then you may have your answer, but if you're still hungry for filmmaking, then you have to make a tough call or maybe you can find way to still make movies and make a living. Nobody can make that decision for you.

Happy travels on whatever road you choose.

Scott
 
You guys are right. This is a tough business and also you never know when things are going to change either for the better or for the worst.

Personally, this year has been tough. With No Place not selling or even picking up a sales agent yet, the investment that I put into that now appears unlikely to bring any return. This is a situation I could have lived more easily if the selling of the film was in my hands and my responsibility, but with the breakup of my business partnership, the film remained in the hands of my ex-business partner. I not only have no control over what happens to my film, I'm also not informed as to the film's progress or what's being done about selling it. This film, if sold, owes me nearly $100,000 in ROI and defered payments.

With my business partnership dissolved this year I've had to start from scratch with all my capital tied up in No Place, $200,000 worth of debt and no income. I've picked up some work this year, but not enough and so last month I effectively had to go bankrupt in order to clear the debts. This involved selling my home and pretty everyhting else I had to get the debtors off my back. Something that has taken all year to achieve.

Don't get me wrong, I've made some bad business decisions and as a result am paying the price. I'm not whinging, I'm just saying that as it stands right now I've got no capital to fund another production, not even a camcorder movie. For the last year I haven't even have the funds to get an NTSC conversion of my digibeta tape so I could send it out as showreel material in the States.

I learned a lot making No Place, but it's been an expensive education. The thing that's annoying me is that even before we made it I knew that from a business point of view it didn't make sense. I knew that a no name, mid budget, art house drama was going to be a nightmare to sell. And yet I still alllowed myself to be talked into it.

I think it's important that people understand that I'm not depressed; not in the least. I'm just taking stock of my business and saying "Hey, this isn't working financially, I need to do something else." Now whatever that somehting else is is either going to be a "working for the man, food on the table job" or maybe a completely new direction. I don't know.

Anyhow, enough. Thanks for all the input.
 
This is a blast from the past, and it brings up a good point; when do you decide enough is enough?

My first though when re-reading this thread was "where are all these people?". Did everyone give up?

This thread is from 2005! 12 years later and I'm still kicking. So are some others that I recognize...

So, what have I done in the past 12 years? Not much. Mostly research and practice. I wrote a few scripts, became a stereoscopic film expert (according to me), finished raising my 2 sons, got divorced and remarried and divorced again. Bought and sold a half dozen cameras, microphones, sound boards, tripods, a steadycam and other equipment.... But in the end, I didn't really produce anything. Just filled my time.. I don't regret one minute of it though. ... There is a character in the book The Alchemist who made plans every single year of his adult life to go on a religious pilgrimage but he never actually went. He had no regret for never actually going though. He said ther is value in the preparation and having something to look forward to each year. I agree with him, however, I really don't want to be 90 years old in my rocking chair remembering all the fun I had planning to make movies and wishing that I actually made one. The guy in the book wasn't what I would call delusional. he just accepted that sometimes life gets in the way of the things we would like to do.,, I don't know.... is that true or is it just an excuse.

2005 was a long time ago. Anyone else want to tell what they've been doing and their thoughts about when enough is enough?


For the record: I did produce 2 short films, created CGI shots for a feature, worked on a major theme ride at Universal and a few others, and did some commissioned make-up fx work,,,, but I did all of that prior to 2005 :)
 
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Velusion said:
My first though when re-reading this thread was "where are all these people?". Did everyone give up?

This thread is from 2005!
Click to expand...

You know, with the email notification that comes from you responding to this thread, it would be cool if anyone from back then would chime in. Several names that I recognize
 
It was also the pre-Netflix-era, 2005 was the year YouTube was founded.
Production and distribution were both very different.
Are less people making features?
Or are less feature makers on IT?
 
I'd imagine more people are trying to ease into the business via webseries, more diverse options are available for people in areas like youtube content creation, and independent features have become less lucrative
 
WalterB said:
Are less people making features?
Click to expand...

Feels to me like there are more features being made these days, but there are also more avenues for distribution. It feels easier than ever to get your feature on some sort of streaming service, but harder than ever to get it into a wide theatrical run...
 
...it brings up a good point; when do you decide enough is enough?
Click to expand...
I guess if it caused him bankruptcy that's a pretty good time to do it.
I'm curious though, he said he knew it was a bad move to put so much of his money in it, so why did he? Excitement? Faith? It's a tough lesson but sometimes the only way to learn it is to go through the consequences. I know how that goes.
I hope he & his family are in better shape now, whether he's still involved in film or not.
 
Producer/director Roger Corman, who has made over 400 films, once gave the following advice at a filmmaking seminar..."don't make films to make money, make films for the love of making films". So we have to ask ourselves the question, do we make movies because we like the process of making a film, or do we do it to make money?... Corman knows that it's the MONEY part that can depress you. If we can take the money part out of the equation, we love what we do. Why does a blues singer sing in a church choir? Answer: He/she realistically cannot make money as a professional singer, but you can sing your heart out for free on Sunday...and do one hell of a good job...and love every minute of it. No money is involved. Filmmaking is the same. If we really like the craft of filmmaking (and can take away the money part), we can volunteer to work on other people's films...shoot, edit, write, score...without worrying about a profit or debt. Or we can make our own no budget film where everybody works for free, and EVERYBODY (including ourselves), has a wonderful time. If the film is not sold, or doesn't make any money...WHO CARES. You did it for the love of the craft. If our goal to making films is all about making money, then we should consider working on other people's films, using THEIR money and not ours...like working as a freelance cameraman, editor, location scout, wardrobe person, or whatever we are good at. As for me?...I've done all of the above.
Other people paid me for over 30 years to work as their cameraman/editor, and since I have "retired" my wife and I have produced over a dozen "no budget" feature films, and have enjoyed every moment of it. None of the films have made back the cost of feeding a cast and crew, but...we don't care...we make films because we "love making films". Everyone has a different story. That is ours. Hollywood is a dream, just like singing, or writing a novel. Everyone wants to do it, but few are called. But you can still call the shots with a different plan...
 
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I wasn't active on this forum at that time but, damn, 2005 was when I graduated high school and when my group started getting really active in the indy stunt community. We were still using a Sony Handycam Hi8. We then graduated to a Panasonic DVX100b in 2008. Now we're using a Canon 60D DSLR which we started using in 2011. And we recently picked up a DJI Osmo is which a badass piece of equipment.

My cousin now does stuntwork in Los Angeles and theme parks (Universal/Knotts). We rarely shoot anymore other than for 48 Hour/4 Points Film Fests.
 
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