What's the big deal with ProRes?

MileCreations

MileCreations

So I've noticed a few festivals and such require ProRes as the format for submission. Also I've noticed that people always rave about cameras that record natively to ProRes.

I've done minimal editing on a Mac so have obviously never had a need for it (doesn't work on PC to my understanding..). Is it really just when you're editing in a format like RAW so that the computer can handle it better?

Please excuse my ignorance, but what's so good about it and why wouldn't I just edit in original video format rather than change it?
 
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It's a lossy intermediate codec that allows handling of large video files with relatively small file size and practically 0 quality loss.
It's the same idea ad Avid's DNxHD
 
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jax_rox said:
I'm only a Mac user so I don't know the PC workflow, but I was under the impression that you can read ProRes on a PC but not write..
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That is correct. Which is what pisses me off about all these festivals requiring Mac format (Quicktime being another offender). The programmers are obviously working on Macs, and not considering the possibility of anyone using a PC, regardless of the fact that PCs outsell Macs by something like a trillion-to-one. There are plenty of formats that work cross-platform.
 
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Cracker Funk said:
That is correct. Which is what pisses me off about all these festivals requiring Mac format (Quicktime being another offender). The programmers are obviously working on Macs, and not considering the possibility of anyone using a PC, regardless of the fact that PCs outsell Macs by something like a trillion-to-one. There are plenty of formats that work cross-platform.
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.mov is a pretty standard wrapper used by just about everybody.. And though in general terms, PC outsells Mac, specifically film/tv industry - Mac is the much more dominant platform, and Linux seems to be doing quite well in the post arena as well.
 
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jax_rox said:
I'm only a Mac user so I don't know the PC workflow, but I was under the impression that you can read ProRes on a PC but not write..
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I've never actually tested a file of it on a PC, I just knew that it couldn't be outputted on a PC and assumed it probably couldn't read it either.

jax_rox said:
.mov is a pretty standard wrapper used by just about everybody.. And though in general terms, PC outsells Mac, specifically film/tv industry - Mac is the much more dominant platform, and Linux seems to be doing quite well in the post arena as well.
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Even though my PC can handle .mov it doesn't particularly well. It can a file uncompressed, but I struggle to find compressed .mov specific settings that still retain reasonable quality.
+ any quicktime file takes double the time to load, regardless of quality or file size (and this on a 8gbram 64bit i7 Win7)
 
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What do you PC guys use as a standard video file type?

I guess .mxf is a better wrapper, and much more standardised than say .mov, and is in fact the SMPTE standard; whether you can keep the size down on a .mxf in a similar way to the different flavours of .mov I'm not sure. Is .mxf better on a PC than .mov?
 
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jax_rox said:
What do you PC guys use as a standard video file type?

I guess .mxf is a better wrapper, and much more standardised than say .mov, and is in fact the SMPTE standard; whether you can keep the size down on a .mxf in a similar way to the different flavours of .mov I'm not sure. Is .mxf better on a PC than .mov?
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I've never heard of .mxf I don't think. I've only worked with .mov files from canon DSLRs and similar from Sony XDCams (haven't worked with these for a while so I forget the exact type) and I just work with that directly in premiere, so the only converting I need to do is at the end, which I generally export as an mpg or .mov depending on where my video is going
 
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So I've noticed a few festivals and such require ProRes as the format for submission. Also I've noticed that people always rave about cameras that record natively to ProRes.
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ProRes is a codec that gets an ordinary compression ratio but loses very little in video quality. Where it shines it the minimal CPU footprint when uncompressing, which helps editors view relatively high quality footage in realtime. Similar to Avid's codeces.

I cannot see a good reason why festivals require you to use ProRes to submit. I guess they're just standardising it to the point where there's a good quality output with very few settings that can make it go wrong.

I've done minimal editing on a Mac so have obviously never had a need for it (doesn't work on PC to my understanding..). Is it really just when you're editing in a format like RAW so that the computer can handle it better?
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Yeah. It does compress the files to be a lot smaller than raw with minimal loss of quality.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what's so good about it and why wouldn't I just edit in original video format rather than change it?
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If your system can handle the raw format without pausing, there's no real reason. Lets say you're working with h.264 (no one does, but just say you did) your computer would be working a lot harder just to decode what its showing you on the screen than if you used ProRes.

Just be aware that when you compress (encode) video, you're typically losing some quality somewhere. If you're doing compositing, having a clean data can really help you make it work better, especially if you're working with people who have long blonde hair.
 
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In addition to it being a good codex, one of the reasons festivals ask for it is because it has become an industry standard format. Even if you don't use a Mac, the industry usually does. PCs only outsell macs 3 to 1 overall now days, and strictly video/audio use I wouldn't be surprised to see the number flipped thanks to a prior decade of FCP being the NLE king. Also, there are several hardware encoders/recorders/cameras that write to ProRes.

Pretty much every festival gives you options for submission, not just "_____ only." If you absolutely have to get a ProRes copy to them and you have no way of making it, it should be pretty cheap to get an editor or duplication house to convert a file to ProRes for you.
 
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PaulGriffith said:
In addition to it being a good codex, one of the reasons festivals ask for it is because it has become an industry standard format. Even if you don't use a Mac, the industry usually does. PCs only outsell macs 3 to 1 overall now days, and strictly video/audio use I wouldn't be surprised to see the number flipped thanks to a prior decade of FCP being the NLE king. Also, there are several hardware encoders/recorders/cameras that write to ProRes.

Pretty much every festival gives you options for submission, not just "_____ only." If you absolutely have to get a ProRes copy to them and you have no way of making it, it should be pretty cheap to get an editor or duplication house to convert a file to ProRes for you.
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I've only had one so far that specifically wanted prores as the format, and so I had to go into my old school where I still have good contact with my media teacher and borrow one of their computers.
No such thing as a duplication house where I live, not for at least two hours
 
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PaulGriffith said:
Pretty much every festival gives you options for submission, not just "_____ only." If you absolutely have to get a ProRes copy to them and you have no way of making it, it should be pretty cheap to get an editor or duplication house to convert a file to ProRes for you.
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You might be surprised how many don't - most ask for a DVD or secure digital screener via withoutabox. Now, normally there's no real specification on the file type, jsut that it's a secure screener format.

Exhibition is similar, and most only accept one or twp formats for exhibition. Many only accept digibeta or HDCAM if your film makes to an exhibition stage. Many still accept a 35mm print. Many only accept HDCAM or DCP as digital screening formats - Sundance is a great example that accept only HDCAM, DCP or 35mm print.
 
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jax_rox said:
You might be surprised how many don't - most ask for a DVD or secure digital screener via withoutabox. Now, normally there's no real specification on the file type, jsut that it's a secure screener format.

Exhibition is similar, and most only accept one or twp formats for exhibition. Many only accept digibeta or HDCAM if your film makes to an exhibition stage. Many still accept a 35mm print. Many only accept HDCAM or DCP as digital screening formats - Sundance is a great example that accept only HDCAM, DCP or 35mm print.
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Of the higher level festivals I've entered, all wanted the final version in Digibeta. Unfortunately I've never made it to that stage. Yet.

The smaller ones barely cared, just a DVD or similar, as you've said
 
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FWIW, when I first started editing my feature on FCP back in 2009 I experimented with a number of different codecs, comparing them to each other. I'd shot on HDV, and had no prior experience with computer-based editing or knowledge of codecs.

Without question, ProRes stood out from the rest. I paused each clip on the same close-up of a particular actor. On other codecs, in one frame the actor's eyes would be sharp, but the next 2 frames would be muddy. With ProRes, I could count the actor's eyelashes in every frame.

Just my 2 cents from totally non-tech perspective. :)
 
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