What would YOU buy with $6,000 for a travel documentary?

[EverywhereConnection]

Hey guys. Been browsing the forums for hours today learning as I go along. Learned quite a lot and hoping to get more involved with the community. First post here.

I'm making a documentary about technology and how it has changed the way we travel in both positive and negative aspects. I have a IndieGogo project going that is doing fairly well so far and may hit our goal.

So here's the question. We'll have $6,000 more or less to create this. It's not much but enough to make quality. We'll be traveling through South America with all of our equipment. Here's where I need your help. I have a list of what I may need but I'm looking for suggestions on what YOU would buy with this budget.

If you had $6,000USD to purchase equipment for a travel documentary that would be used to travel all of South America with, what would you buy? (MacBook and software already purchased)

Edit--
Well then.. This thread definitely got taken over. A shame as I was only looking for advice. Seems as if everyone assumed the worst by reading a few sentences of everything I may have planned (or did not) instead of asking friendly questions as Papertwinproductions has. This thread was created to be general although I admit I did not provide enough information which could have been easily resolved. Again as I mentioned earlier, I apologize for the miscommunication and not providing enough information. Read below to find out more information on the project.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Hey, welcome to the forums, and I mean that sincerely.

I have to reiterate the sincerity of my welcome, because what is to follow might seem like I shooshing you away. I don't mean to scare you away, but I do think we should discuss the type of question you've asked.

This question is entirely WAY TOO GENERAL. It's almost like asking, "Hey, I like movies, okay, so how do I make movies". I'm exaggerating to make a point, not to make fun of you. Dude, we could go anywhere with this question you've asked.

The main problem with your question is that none of us are associated with your production, and the particular demands of your production are exactly what should determine your equipment purchases(and/or rentals). So, what would I buy? Who the fuck knows?

You gotta do the research yourself. And when you feel like you've got a pretty good grasp, but have found some specific issue that you're not quite sure of, that's when you ask a very specific question.

Cheers, mate. Not trying to shoot you down; just trying to let you know that this forum will be more helpfull if your query is a little more targeted and specific.

 

[Papertwinproductions]

It should have been specified in the budget. If you are campaigning for this certain amount of money, without knowing where it's going, how did you come up with the figure? (Unless that is it's a chunk of the budget, and the goal is higher, still, specifics are vital when asking for peoples' cash)

Tell us a little more about the documentary. What you need of the equipment. What you want to achieve with the equipment. What enviroments you'll have the equipment in. etc

Welcome to the boards!

 

[EverywhereConnection]

Definitely expected that. It's alright.

It's not really rocket science. It's purposely made TO BE GENERAL. I've done my research. Plenty of it. What I'm looking of is THE OPINION OF OTHERS. Looking through other threads in the 'newbie' section, I think my question holds WAY more ground than what's already out there and got much more positive feedback than my thread.

I mention TRAVEL. So what does this mean? That the equipment would need to be used in pretty sturdy to handle constant travel.

More details. Doing interviews and travel related activities that would require me to move around while recording. So this might mean DSLR, camcorder, audio recorder, tripod, boom mic, etc. As I mentioned, it's documentary.

Thanks for the welcome. That's an awesome and interesting way to get more details from a new member and to be helpful.

So how do I make movies?

 

[indietalk]

Wow, asking for thousands of dollars from people, but have no idea of what a budget or a business plan is. You may hit the 6K goal so now you are getting nervous. You should be!

"Give me thousands, I'll figure it out later."

Yeah right. Sorry man, looks like you want to take a trip to SA, that's how it reads. Stop the fundraising until you have a plan and a goal. It's not fair to contributors.

 

[EverywhereConnection]

It should have been specified in the budget. If you are campaigning for this certain amount of money, without knowing where it's going, how did you come up with the figure? (Unless that is it's a chunk of the budget, and the goal is higher, still, specifics are vital when asking for peoples' cash)

Tell us a little more about the documentary. What you need of the equipment. What you want to achieve with the equipment. What enviroments you'll have the equipment in. etc

Welcome to the boards!

Thanks! Good questions.

There's constant moving around. Currently using a Vixia HFM31 because of its size and easy to move around while we travel. We do not own a dSLR but looking to purchase one for interviews (D70?) and still recordings. For interviews, we'll definitely be using a ZOOM to record. Our documentary may take us into the mountains or into a small room with one person. Since it's travel related, there is no limitation of what we may bring our equipment to. I'd imagine that many environments will be noisy passing by markets, people, and wind though.

 

[EverywhereConnection]

Wow, asking for thousands of dollars from people, but have no idea of what a budget or a business plan is. You may hit the 6K goal so now you are getting nervous. You should be!

"Give me thousands, I'll figure it out later."

Yeah right. Sorry man, looks like you want to take a trip to SA, that's how it reads. Stop the fundraising until you have a plan and a goal. It's not fair to contributors.

Sorry to mislead you. It's definitely not like that and I think this thread definitely came out wrong so I apologize.

1. I'm not nervous. I'm confident in our project and what we have. We have a strong following and I know we'll do just fine. Not to say there won't be mistakes but I do think you're assuming the worst. This has been a year in the planning before anything was announced at all.

2. The entire trip is paid for by my own funds. Not a single dime is being used IN South America. The funds are for the equipment.

3. We have a plan and goal. The little information I've provided in this thread does not do this entire project justice. Sorry that you feel that we are not prepared but we are definitely prepared to tackle this on. And while I may not be an award winning documentary maker, may not be the admin of a film website, and may not have been doing this for years, or go to university for it, I definitely have have faith in this project, what I'm doing, where I'm going with it, and the end result.

If you feel you want to know the answers to EVERY detail about the project, then I can make this into a MUCH larger thread displaying every single item we have purchased, going to purchase, where we going, who we are filming, who is sponsoring us, how many times I take a shit everyday, and why I think this forum has put me off.

 

[Cracker Funk]

So how do I make movies?

Well, I'm glad that you have a sense of humor about this. Cheers to you.

The difference between the responses you're getting here, vs. the responses that total noobs get, when they ask, "which camera is best", is the level of production. The fact that you're undertaking such a huge production, and that you're asking for crowd-funding, puts you in an entirely different class from the new kids who have absolutely no clue what they're doing, and need heavy guidance.

Like you've stated, you HAVE done the research. Good. And it's not that we're resistant to answering your question. It's just that, in my opinion, for your level of filmmaking, the question is too general. If I were planning a documentary in ___________, my plans would be very specific, and the equipment demands could be matched accordingly.

That being said, based on your last couple posts, if you want DSLR, I would think that weatherproofing would be an important issue. 7D probably your best bet.

Okay, I'm out! This turkey is toasted!

 

[gpforet]

Find a DP and a sound person who want to go to South America and cover their expenses + a little pocket money and let them worry about the techical while you get your plan and script together.

 

[EverywhereConnection]

No worries. I understand. Makes sense what you're saying. I'll be sure to be more specific next time. Don't worry. You haven't scared me off (yet). Plus, there's WAY too much good information on these forums for me to stop talking to you guys!

(Jealous of your turkey... Been in China for the last year and finding turkey is nearly imposible...)

 

[LastChancey]

Hey man. I understand your plight.. Two months ago I was working on a four-month-long project in East Africa and Germany -- we were a two man crew for about half the trip, the other half was only me. Sony Handycam, dirt-cheap microphone, Macbook and Final Cut. Complete company budget of $300 USD. I put wayyy more personal money into it than I ever got out, but had a total blast doing it. If you're interested, here's the Indietalk Thread: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=32049

My advice to you... don't even RISK wasting people's money. I'm all for taking risks here and there to get the best possible products, but you should NEVER do it on other people's time or money. If you want to make a documentary then you should either A) KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND DO IT DAMN WELL, or B) EXPERIMENT ON YOUR OWN TIME AND BUDGET UNTIL YOU DO. If this doesn't apply to you, then awesome! Make you film! I'd recommend getting secondhand equipment and/or gear that you wouldn't terribly mind losing to a pickpocket, greedy luggagehandler, or a customs official who's son has a birthday next week. That's my personal experience from 2 years and counting of filmmaking in third world countries. I'm not saying you shouldn't get nice gear, but always remember that it can disappear in the blink of an eye, and if you're as poor as I am, you don't want that to be the end of the world.

Make sure that you're solid on the language angle. Don't walk into South America with a two year high school education in Spanish and expect to get all the interviews you want. If you don't know people who will reliably translate for you in as many tribal languages and/or dialects as you'll need, then FIND SOME. This is super-important. I speak English, German, Swahili, and a bit of Sudanese Arabic, but none of it came handy when I found myself in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, doing an interview in Congolese French slang, and without anyone to translate properly... needless to say, that didn't make it to the final cut.

Bottom line: BE PREPARED.

But above all, don't waste people's money. Don't put yourself out on a limb that you're too heavy for, and if you need to experiment a while until you are absolutely confident in your ability to NOT waste people's money, that's great fun as well. Best of luck!

 

[EverywhereConnection]

LastChancey
That's great advice and I think that really applies for ALL products, services, etc where people are trusting quality when money is involved. I'd like to think this is common sense to anyone starting this type of business but we all know it's not always like that. Having been running my business for over two years, I know exactly what you mean though. The only reason I have this much funding at all is because people trust what we are working on because of our history in quality. We have put on short films already and although that's nowhere near the quality that a full documentary will be like, it's to send out a message that we got the filming part in good hands.

I'm location independent traveler and just work on the road. I've been to South America several times and fluent in Spanish. I'm half Argentine. It's definitely true that language barrier can be a b*tch. I experience it all the time in Asia. I'm learning Mandarin right now and can only get by with small talk.

I know there's a ton of more work to do and I really appreciate all the advice all of you are giving me. Just to let everyone know, we are as prepared as we could be while still learning and developing to make a fantastic film.

 

[indietalk]

Sorry to mislead you. It's definitely not like that and I think this thread definitely came out wrong so I apologize.

I don't feel misled...

If you had $6,000USD to purchase equipment for a travel documentary that would be used to travel all of South America with, what would you buy? (MacBook and software already purchased)

You raised 6K to make a film, and spent around 1/3 of it already on a nice shiny computer. Buy more equipment and you'll have nothing left. Excpet for new equipment. What did you say? Need 6K to make film? Need 6K to buy new computer and equipment to possibly make film? Curious.

You have no formal budget and are spending other people's money on shiny new toys. Did the contributors know you would end up with a new Mac and editing software?

Your only concern in this thread is what new equip to buy with other people's money. That's not filmmaking.

Who's your producer? Why did he not come up with a budget? Why are you buying new equipment? Since the investors own the equipment are you going to give it to them when the film is done?

I'm sorry but if this is what these new fundraising sites are allowing it needs to be looked into! I'm not saying you're full on scamming but it is not the way to make a film.

I'm not trying to be harsh but this really upsets me.

 

[cameronchapman]

I don't feel misled...



You raised 6K to make a film, and spent around 1/3 of it already on a nice shiny computer. Buy more equipment and you'll have nothing left. Excpet for new equipment. What did you say? Need 6K to make film? Need 6K to buy new computer and equipment to possibly make film? Curious.

You have no formal budget and are spending other people's money on shiny new toys. Did the contributors know you would end up with a new Mac and editing software?

Your only concern in this thread is what new equip to buy with other people's money. That's not filmmaking.

Who's your producer? Why did he not come up with a budget? Why are you buying new equipment? Since the investors own the equipment are you going to give it to them when the film is done?

I'm sorry but if this is what these new fundraising sites are allowing it needs to be looked into! I'm not saying you're full on scamming but it is not the way to make a film.

I'm not trying to be harsh but this really upsets me.

They're clear in the IndieGoGo listing exactly what the money will be used for: equipment and flights. They're paying everything else out of pocket. As long as they're being up front about it, what's the problem? If they'd said, we're spending our own money on equipment, but need people to donate to cover the cost of travel, and raised the same amount of money, would that be acceptable?

Also, sites like IndieGoGo aren't for investors, they're for people who want to donate to a project and don't expect anything in return other than the perks each project offers.

ETA: Nine times out of ten, the people who fund projects on these sites are friends of friends or people in a person's established network. They're not complete strangers.

 

[indietalk]

That's why I asked how it was worded. I don't like the shopping spree idea though. Ask for thousands without even knowing what to get, then ask later.

I also don't like the idea of asking for money to buy equipment without a budget in place for film, if a film is the goal. They have no idea of what it will cost to make the film, yet they have no problem asking for money for equipment they will end up owning.

 

[cameronchapman]

That's why I asked how it was worded. I don't like the shopping spree idea though. Ask for thousands without even knowing what to get, then ask later.

I also don't like the idea of asking for money to buy equipment without a budget in place for film, if a film is the goal. They have no idea of what it will cost to make the film, yet they have no problem asking for money for equipment they will end up owning.

From the IndieGoGo page, it seems like they have a decent idea of what they're doing and how to make the project work. I won't post a link, but all someone has to do is search for Everywhere Connection on IndieGoGo and it'll come up.

I think a lot just got lost in the way the original question was phrased. I can understand wanting to ask what someone else would purchase, without influencing that with what you already plan to purchase. It doesn't mean they don't have a plan, just that they want to get alternative perspectives from people who might be coming at the project from a different angle, in case they've overlooked something major. Sometimes you get so involved in a project that you stop being able to look at it objectively.

 

[indietalk]

Well owning a new Mac and editing software, to me, says they care more about equipment than a film, because you don't use any of a 6K budget to buy that. You find an editor. You also don't go buy everything or ask "what to buy we have this $ people gave us" when you can beg, borrow, and rent to get your film made. The film should be the goal in mind here, and it comes across as someone wanting to own some cool new stuff. If that's how they worded it, fine.

 

[cameronchapman]

Well owning a new Mac and editing software, to me, says they care more about equipment than a film, because you don't use any of a 6K budget to buy that. You find an editor. You also don't go buy everything or ask "what to buy we have this $ people gave us" when you can beg, borrow, and rent to get your film made. The film should be the goal in mind here, and it comes across as someone wanting to own some cool new stuff. If that's how they worded it, fine.

I can definitely see your point there.

 

[freedom crusader]

So here's the question. We'll have $6,000 more or less to create this. It's not much but enough to make quality. We'll be traveling through South America with all of our equipment. Here's where I need your help. I have a list of what I may need but I'm looking for suggestions on what YOU would buy with this budget.

If you had $6,000USD to purchase equipment for a travel documentary that would be used to travel all of South America with, what would you buy? (MacBook and software already purchased)

I had to go through a similar process when I researched the equipment I would need. Eventually in doing research the same products come up repeatedly and you have to weigh their features against your needs and budget. As the research progresses, the parameters change. At the same time the camcorder industry is evolving as the big companies try to outdo each other in bringing products to market.

The major companies all make a shoulder-mounted camera that is really a consumer grade but is meant to look like a pro camera. The markets are ENG (which I am guessing is your niche) and the wedding market. The camera is beefed up so the photographer will be taken seriously but the quality is the same as a vixia.

Being taken seriously is an important consideration, but I rejected this model because I travel extensively and airline companies are charging us for overweight baggage.

If you are doing documentary, then you do not need "cine" features some cameras are including.

The major difference between the under and over 3000 USD cameras is whether they have MOS/CMOS, OR 3 CCD chips. My sense is that CMOS (or just one as opposed to 3 chips) is good enough for political documentaries but that CCD is required for nature work, and that would also require chips giving the best rendition of color. CMOS, as you probably know by now, distorts verticals during horizontal panning and causes ridiculous wobble in other situations when the camera is moving. This also argues for CCD in your work which may involve fast action shots.

Another important feature is the mic jacks. An indy filmmaker has to have higher quality sound, but a documentary maker may not because he will not have time to pose his subjects for perfect sound.

A third feature is manual controls. An artiste has to have maximum control over his images, but a documentary maker may need only good auto focus because he is shooting random and moving subjects.

You can get certain effects with an ND filter, concerning how fast you want your lens relative to the subject. But if an otherwise good camera has no buiit-in ND, you might be able to get an external attachment if you decide this is important for you.

Another issue endlessly discussed is the low-light ability of the camera With an indy filmmaker this is important, so if there are budgetary constraints, he has to make up for it with lighting and post-production. In documentary, viewers are more forgiving, in fact it gives a sense of authenticity if the shadow scenes are grainy.

 

[EverywhereConnection]

freedom crusader - thank you! Exactly the kind of input I was looking for.