What to do when...

C

chenjie108

This one non-actor is playing an important part in a couple scenes.
This guy is psychologically/physically just like the character I want in the film, but I've been meeting him one on one before group rehearsals to go over his lines, and it's somehow hard to get him to just be himself and say his lines in the moment.
Any opinions?
 
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chenjie108 said:
This one non-actor is playing an important part in a couple scenes.
This guy is psychologically/physically just like the character I want in the film, but I've been meeting him one on one before group rehearsals to go over his lines, and it's somehow hard to get him to just be himself and say his lines in the moment.
Any opinions?
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Yes. Let's say this non-actor's name is Joe. You tell Joe not to act. Tell him, "whoever this character is in your head, I want you to get rid of that character. You know the line. you know the story. You've read it. You know it. Now forget the line. Just respond to the other character like Joe would in that situation. Change it up. Be natural. Respond to the other character like you're responding to me right now as I'm talking to you, relaxed like you are right now, as you're thinking about what I'm saying, with one hand in your pocket and the other one rubbing your chin and scratching your nose, like you are right now. Just be yourself man. I don't want you to act. I want Joe. F**k the character I wrote. F**k that guy. I want you. You. Joe. Give me Joe."
 
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trueindie said:
Yes. Let's say this non-actor's name is Joe. You tell Joe not to act. Tell him, "whoever this character is in your head, I want you to get rid of that character. You know the line. you know the story. You've read it. You know it. Now forget the line. Just respond to the other character like Joe would in that situation. Change it up. Be natural. Respond to the other character like you're responding to me right now as I'm talking to you, relaxed like you are right now, as you're thinking about what I'm saying, with one hand in your pocket and the other one rubbing your chin and scratching your nose, like you are right now. Just be yourself man. I don't want you to act. I want Joe. F**k the character I wrote. F**k that guy. I want you. You. Joe. Give me Joe."
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Yeah ok, Canadian, that's terrible advice. This guys a "non-actor", so your big sport movie speech isn't going to land. He's probably gonna fuck it up and it's going to come out like "Why can't we make this work? I really need you.", something terribly pathetic, which the rest of the cast and crew will find very amusing. Check and mate right there and he no longer has control, just cue up the remaining cast doing Pacino and DeNiro impressions for 90 minutes. "You looking at me? You looking at me?". I think you understand.

My advice, if it's not working out- let him go- now or on the first day. Be nice about it (sounds like he might not care already, he's a "non-actor"). You haven't even started filming, don't start compromising your vision and let nobodies walk all over you and your work. Take control and fire his ass, make it big- make it personal and make sure everyone watches him cry. Then bring in his replacement immediately, many will gasp, how did he have time to recast? This guy's a machine! They will fear you and give you everything you want.
 
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Sasa said:
Yeah ok, Canadian, that's terrible advice. This guys a "non-actor", so your big sport movie speech isn't going to land. He's probably gonna fuck it up and it's going to come out like "Why can't we make this work? I really need you.", something terribly pathetic, which the rest of the cast and crew will find very amusing. Check and mate right there and he no longer has control, just cue up the remaining cast doing Pacino and DeNiro impressions for 90 minutes. "You looking at me? You looking at me?". I think you understand.

My advice, if it's not working out- let him go- now or on the first day. Be nice about it (sounds like he might not care already, he's a "non-actor"). You haven't even started filming, don't start compromising your vision and let nobodies walk all over you and your work. Take control and fire his ass, make it big- make it personal and make sure everyone watches him cry. Then bring in his replacement immediately, many will gasp, how did he have time to recast? This guy's a machine! They will fear you and give you everything you want.
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Okay Sasa. You can be the expert. But if you're going to keep talking like an expert, and not want to get called names, you're going to have to show us your expert movies, so we can evaluate your brilliant advice as the gospel that I'm sure it is.

And don't malign Canadians because of my crap advice. I'm only an immigrant :)
 
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Nothing you can say to a non actor will get them to be an actor.

Lets say you need an expert martial artist, and I've got a friend that isn't a martial artist. What can I say to him to perform the fight scenes like an expert martial artist?

The answer is nothing. Nothing I can put into words is going to transform him into something that he's not.
 
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Some/Many people become overly self-conscious in front of the camera and therefore cannot just be themselves. There may be something you can say/do to make them feel less self-conscious and act more naturally or there may not. Some people just aren't cut out to be actors. Likewise, some people, no matter how much they want to be, just aren't cut out to be directors. Being a good director is in large part about psychology, knowing what to say, how to say it and when, to get the performance you require (and not just from the actors!). I've seen the same professional director be harsh and demanding with some actors, "baby" others and use all kinds of psychological tricks/ploys to get what they need.

Sasa said:
Yeah ok, Canadian, that's terrible advice.
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Not necessarily, it might be the perfect advice for some and terrible for others.

Sasa said:
They will fear you and give you everything you want.
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Your advice is just as terrible (or not) as Trueindie and for exactly the same reason! Fear is one psychological trick which works sometimes, other times it's completely counter productive.

sfoster said:
Nothing you can say to a non actor will get them to be an actor.
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That's not true or at least, not always true. I've seen performances coaxed from children and other inexperienced or poor actors which you wouldn't have thought possible to start with. There is of course nothing you can say to an actor to suddenly turn them into an expert martial artist or indeed any other kind of actual expert, the best you can aim for is for them to act/behave like an expert. Your analogy isn't appropriate in this case however, because the actor in question is already an actual expert! The difficulty in this case is not getting the actor to act like an expert but getting him not to act.

G
 
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Hmm, good advice from all. Here's what I get from all your feedback. Two choices:
-"I want Joe" speech / allow him to ad-lib a bit
-cut him out of the picture and get an actor

I may just have to drop him, but we're getting down to the wire on shooting. In case that is not an option, the purpose of this post was to find out if there are any specific 'directions' or 'psychological tricks' I could use. Any exercise to engrain his objective into him? Teach him how to maintain an interior monologue? Put a rock in his shoe?

Something like that... I have little acting experience myself.
 
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chenjie108 said:
Hmm, good advice from all. Here's what I get from all your feedback. Two choices:
-"I want Joe" speech / allow him to ad-lib a bit
-cut him out of the picture and get an actor

I may just have to drop him, but we're getting down to the wire on shooting. In case that is not an option, the purpose of this post was to find out if there are any specific 'directions' or 'psychological tricks' I could use. Any exercise to engrain his objective into him? Teach him how to maintain an interior monologue? Put a rock in his shoe?

Something like that... I have little acting experience myself.
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I know why you want this guy. Because you want a real person. I know exactly how you feel. The problem with some actors is that they're acting. And you can tell they're acting. So the audience also knows they're acting. So the whole thing sucks sometimes, because you want a real person.

The main problem with the "I want Joe" speech is that it doesn't always work with non-actors, because they get self conscious and stiff, and then they look like they're acting. You're back in the same mess. The only way to determine if this is going to work is to get this guy to rehearse with you and see how he reacts to your direction. Make sure he knows the thrust and direction of the scene and the conversation, then he can ad lib.

But personally, at our level, I'll take a non actor, or better yet, a comedian to regular actors. Comedians are truly great people. They're in tune with how other people react to them. Their facial expressions and timings are perfect. Just a thought :)
Good luck!!
Edit: ps. as you can see though, I am the minority opinion. So take my advice with a bucket of salt.
 
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