What movie job should an aspiring director get his start in?

[mfierro31]

Hi everyone, this is Mike F.

I'm from La Puente, CA. It's not really known for being a movie city, but I have managed to start taking film classes at the community college I'm going to and I am also currently making my first short film with a couple of friends. It's really low budget so I know it's not going to be great, but it's my first step to becoming a director. I just need to stop talking about it, and DO IT.

So, I've asked this question many times before...mainly on the myspace film forum...and I guess I just haven't been satisfied with the answers I got. I want to know, if my dream job is to become a successful director for a big movie studio someday, where do you think I should start? What should be my first movie job and where should I go from there?

Is it true that you really don't need any experience to be a director? Because I think someone on myspace told me the only two movie industry jobs that don't require any experience are being a PA and a director.

And if I want to be a director for a big movie studio someday, would I have to start off as an indie director first and just hope one day that my indie movie will get noticed by big studio producers? And then we get into the world of INDIE FILMMAKING! I don't really understand how it works. I mean, I've heard of Indie movie studios, but isn't the whole thing about indie filmmaking is that it's INDEPENDENT?

How do indie directors get the money to produce their movies? That's what I really want to figure out! I mean, right now, I only have a part-time job that's giving me 3 days a week at the most. I obviously cannot now or in the future save up enough money to buy all the equipment and crew neccessary to make a GOOD indie film. So how do most indie directors finance their movies? Do they go to these so-called "Indie Studios" and get financed like that or do they just find someone rich who wouldn't mind spending their money on making a movie?

I appreciate any advice anyone can give me...I know this is a lot! Haha...sorry, but I had a lot on my mind.

Thanks!

 

[Alcove Audio]

So, I've asked this question many times before...mainly on the myspace film forum...and I guess I just haven't been satisfied with the answers I got. I want to know, if my dream job is to become a successful director for a big movie studio someday, where do you think I should start? What should be my first movie job and where should I go from there?

Your odds of becoming the next Ford, Hitchcock, Spielberg, whoever, are astronomical. If your goal is to become rich work for a bank or AIG and let the taxpayers bail you out. If your goal is to become famous do something incredibly stupid and outrageous, but do it colorfully.

If your goal is to be a filmmaker you have three options.

The first is work on projects for free, learn, learn, learn, network, network, network, build up your reputation and use all of that to begin doing your own lo/no/micro projects.

The second is to go to film school, work on projects for free, learn, learn, learn network, network, network, build up your reputation and use all of that to begin doing your own lo/no/micro projects.

The third is to go to film school, start as a PA (competing with thousands of others for the jobs) and work your way up through the system and hope to get noticed.

I may sound cynical, and I guess that I am, but I hear this so often. I may do audio post for a living, but I can tell a good story from a bad one, good acting from bad acting, good direction from bad direction, etc., and I have dozens of terrible projects come through my studio made by clowns who are convinced that their work is Oscar-worthy and will make them millions.

All that being said, your goal should not be to become rich and famous; your goal should be to make great films. If your work is truly great, the fame and money will follow.

So, make your own films and learn from your mistakes. Work on other peoples projects as a PA, grip, gaffer, 1st AD, any job you can, and learn from their mistakes as well as their successes. Stay away from the booze and the drugs. Be on time, be conscientious, and work your tail off. Network like crazy and stay in touch with those people. Don't burn bridges, todays anal sphincter is tomorrows producer.

"Life has been meant for you to enjoy, but you won't enjoy it unless you pay for it with some good, hard work. This is one price that will never be marked down" - Harpo Marx

 

[directorik]

Hi everyone, this is Mike F.

I'm from La Puente, CA. It's not really known for being a movie city, but I have managed to start taking film classes at the community college I'm going to and I am also currently making my first short film with a couple of friends. It's really low budget so I know it's not going to be great, but it's my first step to becoming a director. I just need to stop talking about it, and DO IT.

La Punete isn't too far from "movie city". Not even 30 miles
and you're in the studio district.

Budget doesn't determine if your short film is good. You can
make an excellent short film on less than $10. You can make
a terrible short film with $10,000. You're right. You need to
do it. There is no reason why you can't be making one short
a month.

So, I've asked this question many times before...mainly on the myspace film forum...and I guess I just haven't been satisfied with the answers I got. I want to know, if my dream job is to become a successful director for a big movie studio someday, where do you think I should start? What should be my first movie job and where should I go from there?

What answer are you looking for? There are dozens of paths to
becoming a successful director working for the big studios. You
should start by making movies. And your first film movie job
should be any job you can get. A PA, an extra, an intern - any of
those jobs (and others) should be your first job.

But that doesn't satisfy you?

Is it true that you really don't need any experience to be a director? Because I think someone on myspace told me the only two movie industry jobs that don't require any experience are being a PA and a director.

It's true. You can direct a movie tomorrow morning. It might not
be good and it might be amazing. But you need no experience at
all.

But to say you don't need experience to be a director is a little simplistic,
don't you think? You must or you wouldn't be taking any classes or
wanting to actually direct. So while you don't need any experience to
direct, directing gives you the needed experience. Gets confusing, doesn't it?

And if I want to be a director for a big movie studio someday, would I have to start off as an indie director first and just hope one day that my indie movie will get noticed by big studio producers?

You don't have to, but you could.

Some successful director's started in the camera department.
Some successful director's started in commercials.
Some successful director's started in editing.
Some successful director's started in special efx.
Some successful director's started in no budget independent films.
Some successful director's started as associate producers.
Some successful director's started as actors.

And then we get into the world of INDIE FILMMAKING! I don't really understand how it works. I mean, I've heard of Indie movie studios, but isn't the whole thing about indie filmmaking is that it's INDEPENDENT?

This is semantics. An independent film is a film made without a studio.
And a "studio" is usually defined as the major, publically traded companies:
Paramount, Disney, Universal, MGM, Columbia, Fox, and Warner.
There are independent production companies that don't have financing
from studios and don't have distribution from studios.

How do indie directors get the money to produce their movies? That's what I really want to figure out! I mean, right now, I only have a part-time job that's giving me 3 days a week at the most. I obviously cannot now or in the future save up enough money to buy all the equipment and crew neccessary to make a GOOD indie film. So how do most indie directors finance their movies?

Most finance their movies themselves. Most don't buy all the equipment
needed - they rent. Most don't pay their cast and crew - those people work
for free.

But you don't need a lot of money to make a GOOD movie.

Do they go to these so-called "Indie Studios" and get financed like that or do they just find someone rich who wouldn't mind spending their money on making a movie?

Some directors go to these production companies and get financing.
Some find someone rich.
Most make their first few movies for very little money using talented friends
and asking a lot of favors.

You are in for a very difficult journey. There are tens of thousands of directors
who made one or two movies and never did anything else. There are tens
of thousands of film school grad not making a living as directors.

But there are those who make it. They each took a different path. You
can do it, too.

 

[mfierro31]

Okay, for some reason, I always make it sound like I'm just in it for the fame and fortune...the truth is...I'm in it for the love of the art AND the fame and fortune. I mean, come on, is it really too much to ask for both?

No aspiring director wants to end up poor and living on the streets because he spent all his money on making movies...they want to make it big...I think we all do. I look at it this way...I don't want to do ANYTHING ELSE but make movies in order to become rich and famous. I HAVE to be a director...or at least work in the film industry, because there is nothing else I think I can succeed in and I am passionate about. I love movies and I love making them even more...and if I can get rich off of doing something I love...then I'll make that my goal also. Since I am driven by BOTH the love of the art and fame and fortune, I know if I start to realize that I'm not getting paid a lot, I still have that love of the art that will drive me.

So, please, don't get me wrong...I am in it for the love of making movies as much as, or probably more than, the desire of fame and fortune. I completely understand that my chances at making it that far are "astronomical," but I guarantee you, I will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, have a driving force that will make me keep on going...whether it be the dollar signs in my eyes, or the more exhilirating feeling I get when I'm behind a camera yelling "action!"

So, okay, you guys are basically saying that ANY on set job would be a good place to start? Well, then let me ask, would I actually be qualified for any other on set job besides a PA if I've never had experience before? Like you said, a gaffer, a grip, an AD...don't those people only get hired if they've actually had experience in the business?

So, okay, if I were to try and rent professional equipment for a movie...professional cameras, lights, props, etc. etc. where do you recommend I go? Because I don't think there is any place in La Puente/West Covina or surrounding areas that have that kind of stuff. Trust me, I've looked. Would all those places only be located in Burbank/Hollywood/Downtown LA? And also, where do you think I should go (website or physical location) to gather crew and talent? My crew and talent right now are just friends from school and work.

And another question I had is where do you suggest I go (website or actual physical place) to get my first movie job? I've been to mandy.com and craigslist...and I even signed up for this thing called talenthunter, but I have to pay them to respond to messages...BASTARDS! But are there any better sites than those or are those the best you can go to? The reason I haven't applied for any of the PA/intern positions on those websites is 1) I don't have a resume and cover letter ready and 2) I have a transportation problem. The car I'm driving right now is really crappy and I know if I have to drive out to Burbank or Hollywood more than once a week my car is going to break down on me.

But I have seen PA/intern positions that only last a weekend or something like that...sometimes as short as one day! And I think to myself, "that would be perfect!" but I am ALWAYS too late on the draw.

 

[directorik]

So, okay, you guys are basically saying that ANY on set job would be a good place to start? Well, then let me ask, would I actually be qualified for any other on set job besides a PA if I've never had experience before? Like you said, a gaffer, a grip, an AD...don't those people only get hired if they've actually had experience in the business?

You might not start with a paying job. Almost no one does. You
might have to start on no budget films like most of us did. That's
a great way to get the experience. Volunteer on student films.

So, okay, if I were to try and rent professional equipment for a movie...professional cameras, lights, props, etc. etc. where do you recommend I go? Because I don't think there is any place in La Puente/West Covina or surrounding areas that have that kind of stuff. Trust me, I've looked. Would all those places only be located in Burbank/Hollywood/Downtown LA? And also, where do you think I should go (website or physical location) to gather crew and talent? My crew and talent right now are just friends from school and work.

Most rental places are in the Los Angeles area. But you can slow down
just a little. I get the impression you aren't ready to rent professional
cameras, lights, props, etc. etc. in the next few months.

Spend the next six months or so making small, short films with what
ever equipment you can put together. Make six movies. Then you can
spend some time researching equipment rentals.

It's okay to leave the 15 or 20 mile radius from your house to rent.
Check mandy.com under "Services" You'll find you live within 30 miles
of the best camera, lights, grip and prop rental places in the world.

And another question I had is where do you suggest I go (website or actual physical place) to get my first movie job? I've been to mandy.com and craigslist...and I even signed up for this thing called talenthunter, but I have to pay them to respond to messages...BASTARDS! But are there any better sites than those or are those the best you can go to? The reason I haven't applied for any of the PA/intern positions on those websites is 1) I don't have a resume and cover letter ready and 2) I have a transportation problem. The car I'm driving right now is really crappy and I know if I have to drive out to Burbank or Hollywood more than once a week my car is going to break down on me.

You are going to have to drive to where the work is. And as you point out
there isn't much work in the La Puente/West Covina area. Since you don't
have a reliable car you may have to wait for a few years until you have one.

There is a LOT of competition for even no paying jobs. Last September I
put an ad in Backstage West for two unpaid PA positions. I got just over
200 resumes.

So during the next six months, while you make your six short films, you
should put together a resume and cover letter.

Are you going to do it? Are you going to direct six movies in the next six
months? Are you THAT serious?

 

[Alcove Audio]

Okay, as I said, fame and fortune are byproducts of being the best at what you do. I personally don't care about fame and fortune (although the fortune would be nice, and I wouldn't mind an Oscar or an Emmy on my shelf), I just want a satisfying career that will support my family and myself. I enjoy my work most of the time - there are a few jerks out there that manage to take all the fun out of it.

I spent over 25 years as a working musician. I paid my dues doing crappy gigs, worked my way up and finished off as musical director for an internationally known oldies band. I made a lot of money and had a lot of fun. I also did a lot of recording sessions. I was always kibitzing with other musicians, arrangers, musical directors and recording engineers.

Arthritis curtailed my performing career, so I started working as a recording engineer. I didn't care for it much as I wasn't allowed to be creative very often, I was just a button pusher (or mouse clicker later on). So I went back to school to get my Pro Tools certification in an effort to at least work in better studios. I took the audio post track as well, and my instructor recommended to me that I might enjoy audio post a lot more.

At about the same time I went to an audition for extras on a local community film project associated with the Directors View Film Festival. It was just for fun, I had no intentions of becoming an actor. On finding out that I had audio experience I was asked to be the production sound mixer for the project and I accepted. The only pros on the project were the director - he's the dean of film and theatre at a local college - and the 1st AD/line producer; she had done a few films and documentaries. Everyone else was either a local or a student.

After the project and my Pro Tools course were completed I tooled up my home studio for audio post. I did a few shorts and a feature for free to gain experience. The director of the community film project asked me to do a few jobs for him and spread my name around a bit. Then, the 1st AD/line producer from the community film project also contacted me. I do a few jobs for her each year now, and the people associated with them also hire me on occasion. I do a few nice projects each year, lots of junk, do radio spots, record local musicians, and also freelance for other audio post facilities & recording studios, and the occasional gig as a production sound mixer or boom-op.

So take all the gigs you can get, get networked, get educated. Doing all those other jobs on the set will give you an understanding and appreciation of all the crafts that you will have to manage as a director. I'm going to a seminar about cinematography next month, and an editing seminar in May. I don't want to do either job, but I do want to expand my knowledge. "Any day you learn something isn't a total waste."

 

[mfierro31]

Yeah, I'm totally not ready for renting professional equipment yet. I honestly don't think I can make a short each month. I mean, the short I'm doing now has already taken about two months...and we're still not done shooting! It's just all my actors have schedule conflicts and so we can only shoot on fridays. Not to mention, I have to work and go to school too, so most of the week is not open for me.

I mean, don't get me wrong, if I could make a short each month I would, but honestly, I don't think I have the manpower to recruit actors. I don't really need a crew yet. I, alone, really act as the crew. I mean, right now all I really need is lighting and props...so I am the director, gaffer, and propmaster...and editor and producer...I guess. But yeah, getting actors is actually pretty tough. Especially RELIABLE actors. I can't tell you how many of my actors dropped out of the project or I had to drop from the project because they kept telling me they couldn't make it.

I even posted bulletins in my community college in the acting/theater department and I still got no replies. I guess what I should've done was just go in person to the classes while they were on breaks or something and aked them in person. I actually had an experience the other day where I was doing a project for one of my film classes and I was carrying around an expensive, fancy camera around campus and people were just flocking to me...eager to be in front of the camera. So maybe I should just take my camera with me and maybe people will be more eager to be in my film. Haha! I don't know...I have a really tiny JVC camcorder which doesn't look impressive at all, so maybe it won't work.

But yeah, as for the renting, I'm just looking ahead, maybe after college. But don't rentals also cost an arm and a leg? I thought I saw an ad for a rental for just a camera and it was like $1,000 A DAY!!!!!!!!! I'll never be able to afford that too!!!!!!!

I guess I'm just going to have to find financing...or at least someone to HELP me finance someday. By the way, I do work in the movie industry already...or at least I like to think so...I work at a movie theatre in West Covina. Haha! Does that really count? I mean, could I put that on my resume as movie industry experience?

 

[Zensteve]

I'll probably come off as being a **** with this, but... oh well...

...these twelve points are not excuses.

It's really low budget so I know it's not going to be great
I only have a part-time job that's giving me 3 days a week at the most
Yeah, I'm totally not ready for renting professional equipment yet
I honestly don't think I can make a short each month
It's just all my actors have schedule conflicts
I have to work and go to school
most of the week is not open for me
I don't think I have the manpower to recruit actors
I don't really need a crew yet. I, alone, really act as the crew
getting actors is actually pretty tough
I guess what I should've done...
it was like $1,000 A DAY!!!!!!!!! I'll never be able to afford that too!!!!!!!

There are solutions for every single one of these "problems".

Half of them are solved by being open to networking, and the other half are solved by actually putting in some elbow-grease.

I don't want to do ANYTHING ELSE but make movies in order to become rich and famous.

I don't believe you.

You live 15 minutes from where the industry lives. (Well, okay... maybe allow an extra hour for traffic)

If you cannot pull together your own projects, get involved with other projects. You'll likely start off with a crap job (yay PA!), but you'll be meeting contacts that you can network with, and work with in the future.

I think to myself, "that would be perfect!" but I am ALWAYS too late on the draw.

You just don't have your priorities straight, if you're really wanting to move ahead.

 

[directorik]

Yeah, I'm totally not ready for renting professional equipment yet. I honestly don't think I can make a short each month. I mean, the short I'm doing now has already taken about two months...and we're still not done shooting! It's just all my actors have schedule conflicts and so we can only shoot on fridays. Not to mention, I have to work and go to school too, so most of the week is not open for me.

All excellent reasons to not make movies. The difference between you
and those that make it in this business is they don't have any reasons
to NOT make movies - they find all the reasons they CAN make movies.

Pretty harsh, isn't it?

I mean, don't get me wrong, if I could make a short each month I would, but honestly, I don't think I have the manpower to recruit actors.

If you really wanted to, you would. You would find the actors. Nothing
would stop you.

I even posted bulletins in my community college in the acting/theater department and I still got no replies. I guess what I should've done was just go in person to the classes while they were on breaks or something and aked them in person. I actually had an experience the other day where I was doing a project for one of my film classes and I was carrying around an expensive, fancy camera around campus and people were just flocking to me...eager to be in front of the camera. So maybe I should just take my camera with me and maybe people will be more eager to be in my film. Haha! I don't know...I have a really tiny JVC camcorder which doesn't look impressive at all, so maybe it won't work.

Sure looking impressive with a fancy expensive camera helps.

I remember those guys when I was just starting out. A fancy
expensive camera, people flocking around them, telling everyone
about their projects and how famous they were going to be. While
I was in the background with my small, cheap camera making
movies all the time. At the end of the school year I had seven
finished films and the guy with the camera had talked a lot about
someday doing a film when he could get the right money, cast and
locations.

If you were actually making a good short film every month
that would be even MORE impressive. But that's really, really
difficult to do. Very few aspiring directors can do it. Those that
do, are the ones people remember. It's too bad you have so
many excellent reasons to not make movies.

But yeah, as for the renting, I'm just looking ahead, maybe after college. But don't rentals also cost an arm and a leg? I thought I saw an ad for a rental for just a camera and it was like $1,000 A DAY!!!!!!!!! I'll never be able to afford that too!!!!!!!

Making movies is expensive.

You could start by using cheaper equipment and saving
money like the rest of us did. Or you can wait - hoping
you can get someone to pay for everything.

Which ever way works best for you.

When you start finding the reasons to make movies
instead of reasons why you can't, things will turn
around for you.

 

[mfierro31]

Hmmm...okay. You gave me a lot to think about...

I'll probably be back with more questions...and THANKS for being harsh. I think that's what I need.

 

[David.rhsc]

All excellent reasons to not make movies. The difference between you
and those that make it in this business is they don't have any reasons
to NOT make movies - they find all the reasons they CAN make movies.

Pretty harsh, isn't it?


If you really wanted to, you would. You would find the actors. Nothing
would stop you.


Sure looking impressive with a fancy expensive camera helps.

I remember those guys when I was just starting out. A fancy
expensive camera, people flocking around them, telling everyone
about their projects and how famous they were going to be. While
I was in the background with my small, cheap camera making
movies all the time. At the end of the school year I had seven
finished films and the guy with the camera had talked a lot about
someday doing a film when he could get the right money, cast and
locations.

If you were actually making a good short film every month
that would be even MORE impressive. But that's really, really
difficult to do. Very few aspiring directors can do it. Those that
do, are the ones people remember. It's too bad you have so
many excellent reasons to not make movies.


Making movies is expensive.

You could start by using cheaper equipment and saving
money like the rest of us did. Or you can wait - hoping
you can get someone to pay for everything.

Which ever way works best for you.

When you start finding the reasons to make movies
instead of reasons why you can't, things will turn
around for you.

Thank you for posting this. No, seriously. It's WAY too easy to find all the reasons that one "can't" get short films done (ask me why I was an IT admin for 4.5 years immediately after college); when things look impossible it's good to remember that there is always a way - maybe not the super-perfect-mind-blowingly-amazing way you envisioned - but a way nonetheless.

Anyway, thanks for the reminder (and to others with similar remarks).

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

Directorik touched on it, make movies, with the highest production values you can. That might not be very high initially, but always strive to make the best possible movie with the resources you have.

 

[CDCosta]

Damn, you ugys covered it all pretty well.

To recap, all you need is:

Luck, Contacts, and hard work.