What makes a good film good?

R

RED ROBOT

There are probably a lot of threads like this but I was wondering what makes a good short film good for you personally?

Frankly I've made one or two shorts and everybody loves them , but once I sent them to 2-3 people who study at film school they tell me that I'll never become great director if my shorts doesn't have special meaning behind them and have symbolism in my shots. They told me that a great short leaves you thinking for hours and hours and mine just doesn't .

A friend of mine who I worked with told me that they are just pretentious douchebags but maybe they are right.


Do you like simple short films like the ones from Red Giant , like Plot Device ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKZfAQ7L_WM ) or you think good short films must be deep etc.

What's your opinion on this topic?

Thanks.
 
I love screenwriting and I'm a director too.

Good screenwriting is all about the STORY. Sorry for the uppercase.

It's story, story, story.

Think Think Forrest Gump, The Shawshank Redemption, Sixth Sense, Fight Club, Memento etc...

Obviously the examples above are all features but you get the idea.

Can you capture a great story in a short film? Sure you can.

Here's an award winning example:

http://vimeo.com/29392606

I have not seen many of the Red Giant shorts but your example was CGI heavy with no story really so I was not a fan - the CGI tech was good though.

RED ROBOT said:

Frankly I've made one or two shorts and everybody loves them , but once I sent them to 2-3 people who study at film school they tell me that I'll never become great director if my shorts doesn't have special meaning behind them and have symbolism in my shots. They told me that a great short leaves you thinking for hours and hours and mine just doesn't .
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Many directors cannot write well. They get others to write their screenplays - or shorts. There are many screenwriters who will write a short for you, or make their short stories available.

Some CGI gurus have created CGI-heavy shorts (with little story) that got them noticed by Hollywood and they got additional high paying work, even director gigs on big budget features.

A short does not have to have a special meaning to be good. But a great story, for me, that's key.
 
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IndiePaul said:
I love screenwriting and I'm a director too.

Good screenwriting is all about the STORY. Sorry for the uppercase.

It's story, story, story.

Think Think Forrest Gump, The Shawshank Redemption, Sixth Sense, Fight Club, Memento etc...

Obviously the examples above are all features but you get the idea.

Can you capture a great story in a short film? Sure you can.

Here's an award winning example:

http://vimeo.com/29392606

I have not seen many of the Red Giant shorts but your example was CGI heavy with no story really so I was not a fan - the CGI tech was good though.


Many directors cannot write well. They get others to write their screenplays - or shorts. There are many screenwriters who will write a short for you, or make their short stories available.

Some CGI gurus have created CGI-heavy shorts (with little story) that got them noticed by Hollywood and they got additional high paying work, even director gigs on big budget features.

A short does not have to have a special meaning to be good. But a great story, for me, that's key.
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Hello and thank you for your input.

I don't think the short was CGI heavy as it almost didn't had any CGI whatsoever. Sure , the Sci-Fi had some ,but overall it was not CGI heavy in my opinion .

I don't consider myself a bad writer , I have huge imagination and I come up with new stories all the time .

But I get what you're saying.

Thanks.
 
yes, story is the essential foundation of any good film, symbolism is great too, pretty camera work really helps..

But what makes a good film good? How it makes you FEEL!
It doesn't matter what or how they did it, if I walk away absolutely thrilled and excited because what I saw was just really awesome or got a rise out of me in some way.. well that is what the magic of film making is all about. the emotional manipulation (in a good way) of the audience

if you set out purposefully, and make them feel something strongly, then you've done your job and are an amazing director / story teller
 
RED ROBOT said:

I don't think the short was CGI heavy as it almost didn't had any CGI whatsoever. Sure , the Sci-Fi had some ,but overall it was not CGI heavy in my opinion .
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True, if you cut the Sci-Fi scene, 90% of the CGI would be cut with it.

RED ROBOT said:

I don't consider myself a bad writer , I have huge imagination and I come up with new stories all the time .
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That's great. Two big positives - the ability to write well, and a good imagination.
 
To me, music is the single most important factor in a film's enjoyability. I compiled independent lists for my favorite films and my favorite film scores, and they were nearly the exact same lists.

Second to music, I find originality important. I hate watching a films and being reminded often of another film. References and homages can be wonderful, but only if they are spread between lots of different works and the audience as to figure out what is being referenced.

Good films also have original events or settings, have complicated but not convoluted plots, interesting shots or lighting, believable characters, and humor. Or some mixture of some of those. If there is dialogue, keep it concise and logical. If characters talk too much, I feel like I could just as easily be reading a book. Films have to be about the marriage of visual and audio images.

While symbolism (eg the baseball represents love!) isn't necessarily needed, subtle metaphors are amazing.
 
RED ROBOT said:
... I was wondering what makes a good short film good for you personally?.
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A good story is one in which even if I've already seen it and know pretty much just how it goes I still want to watch it over again, maybe days or weeks or months later, but still I wanna watch it again. :yes:
Something better than a "one shot view." :no:

Also, If I think it's cool enough to recommend to someone else to watch then it's gotta be good.
Friends don't recommend cr@p to watch. :no:


... but once I sent them to 2-3 people who study at film school they tell me that I'll never become great director if my shorts doesn't have special meaning behind them and have symbolism in my shots. They told me that a great short leaves you thinking for hours and hours and mine just doesn't.
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Pfft.
No.

Agree with the d-bag assessment. ;)
 
I don't consider myself a bad writer , I have huge imagination and I come up with new stories all the time .
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There's a huge difference between "Don't consider myself a bad writer" and a someone who can write good stories. It's all about the execution.

I also agree, it all starts with the great script, but there is so much more. Audio design, great visuals, compelling performance from the actors, great sets, fantastic editing and so on. You get any of those parts too wrong and you run the risk of ruining a perfectly good story.
 
There is no single element that makes a film good - or great for that matter.

Filmmaking is the confluence of many interlocking disciplines. Great acting won't save a poor script, wonderful cinematography won't improve poor acting, a terrific score won't rescue a poorly shot film.




Solid sound helps a lot, though.......:D:D:D
 
What makes a film great is went everyone in the production work together to make the best film of their lives. Team work is key. Also a decent budget can bring in the right people to make the film great.

Maverics and divas can kill a small production. Choose your people carefully.
 
What makes a film great is went everyone in the production work together to make the best film of their lives. Team work is key. Also a decent budget can bring in the right people to make the film great.

Maverics and divas can kill a small production. Choose your people carefully.
 
GuerrillaAngel said:
What makes a good film good?

Answer: When people are willing to PAY to see it.
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A profitable film is not necessarily a good film but I get and understand your point.

My ideal: a profitable film that's also high quality/acclaimed. :)

But you raise a good point: Hollywood is all about $$$$$. To the investors and industry in general if your film makes a profit, it's a 'good' film.
 
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That brings up a good point, what is a measuring stick when it comes to determine a good film? Whether you like it is rather subjective.
 
A good story. Filmmaking is a form of storytelling, which is something that many people forget. Filmmaking isn't about gear and money, it's about telling a story you think people need to be told. Also, you'll know you have a good screenplay when you can tell the story in one or two sentences and get people interested. Any good film can be told in one or two sentences and grab your interest.

Not only do you have to have a good story, but that story has to be written well. A poor screenplay means a poor film. So either take the time and effort to write an amazing screenplay, or hire a great screenwriter.

The acting has to be good. Hire actors that will not only play the part well, but are easy to work with. Brando and Daniel Day-Lewis are some of the greatest actors of all time, but they would probably ruin the production of an indie film. The only reason Apocalypse Now was made was because Coppola had money and time. But Brando pulled off an amazing character. Lewis has had severe mental breakdowns and full out raging panic attacks, as well as thinking he is the actual character in the film. During the production of the film, he would sharpen knifes and mumble to himself. While playing Hamlet in a play, he had a metal breakdown and was taken to a hospital. But he has delivered some of the greatest performances on screen. But the directors of those films had millions of dollars and countless days to shoot. We don't. They would ruin the film.

AUDIO.

Bad cinematography is somewhat forgivable. AUDIO IS NOT. I have a DVD of student films that came with a guerrilla filmmaking guide. The audio was horrible. I stopped watching because of the unpleasant hissing and hollow sound. It's always important to have people knowledgable about audio working good audio gear.

BYE...
 
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