What lens do I need for this shot?

I guess it would be the lens. I tried with my 50mm but a person's hand looks too close to the camera. The kind of shot where if you extend a pistol towards the camera, it will not have any barrel distortion. In fact, it will look really close the actor's face even though it's not.

What lens would I need for this type of shot, 3:29 into the clip, and again at 3:39 into the clip, at a more distant angle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un5nYQ6smgw

I also wanted to get this shot when an actor is pointing a gun up towards the ceiling, but I assume there is no way to get it with the camera looking down, unless the ceiling is really high, right? I have the Canon T2i camera.

Thanks!
 
It's only going to work shooting from above if you do it in a stairwell.. or maybe a 3-4 story mall or something like that.

You'd need a long lens, I'd guess at least a 200mm, maybe longer even. That will compress elements in z-space bringing the foreground and background much closer together. It's more difficult to see because the background is entirely out of focus, but it's very compressed. I've got a 400mm that'll do this.

Here's a couple examples, I'm fairly certain these were both taken with the 400mm lens.
 

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Okay thanks. I want to try out lenses in the store to pinpoint the exact focal length, but the camera store isn't even big enough to try it out on someone. Is there any other way of achieving, rather than a starewell, such as using a barrel distortion corrector in After Effects or perhaps making it look like it is a long lens, but the actor is holding the gun right up to the fair, but you cannot tell, cause the gun is out of focus and you cannot see that his arms are that close to his body? I have tried that too, I can tell, but that's because I am aware.
 
It's not about barrel distortion, it's about the foreground/background compression you get with a long lens. There's really no good way to fake that that I can think of. ... unless you greenscreen your actor, and composite in the BG, and maybe the gun too, but I really can't see this shot being so necessary that it look this way being worth that hassle.
 
I might do that for sure, thanks. We'll see how big the location is too. I might have it so the character does not shoot up, and we will see how big the location is. But I should rent the lens to do tests anyway, and see if the store has one available. Thanks.
 
Okay thanks. If I rent though, I will have very little time to practice with the lens perhaps. Hopefully I can get the hang of it quick.

Usually a new lens isn't that much more difficult to learn for tripod shots like the ones you're referencing. Pretty much just figure out the focus, usually.

Also, if you want to get a decent estimation of your shot setup and the lens you need, consider either an adjustable viewfinder, or at least an app that can approximate the lens crop like this one.
 
Okay thanks. What do you mean by crop, does the image get cropped, compared to the other shots?

Eeeh, really I rather ambiguously used a term that's often associated to an entirely different thing in the modern times (not going into Sensor Crop, it's not relevant to the topic at hand). I more meant that the app can put marks on a picture that can approximate (based on the known parameters of the lens settings of the iPhone) how much a longer lens would zoom into the picture, and draws a box on the photo approximating that.

screen568x568.jpeg


^ Like that.
 
Will is right on. I tried to repro this shoot
Replacement_Killer_Orig.jpg


with a 200mm on my GH2 and this was the result..


replacement_Killer1.jpg

(note the dead eye stare of a stone cold killa' .. er I mean grumpy 9 year old who was dragged away from minecraft to take the test shot)


The hand\gun is still too big for the shot your trying for.. at 20mm on my gh2 the compression isnt quite enough, a 400mm would probably rock it..

I do note that the second shot is a different angle and the hand does seem bigger and shows shes holding a tiny gun...

Replacement_Killer_Orig2.jpg


doesnt look like the same gun in this shot..

Replacement_Killer_Orig3.jpg


Switching to the smaller gun in the log shot was probably just for the reason your discovering.. it looks too big... Also not the posture in the first shot.. her arms are low, pulled in a bit not straight armed out like my 9 year old did it, ....the color of the jacket makes the arms seems smaller.. also note that in the first shot the gun\hand is flagged in the lighting, another thing to make it seem smaller..

I guess it shows that a lot more goes into the shot then just lens choice..

EDIT: I could be wrong about the gun switch, might just be my imagination.. your thoughts??
EDIT: Forgot that I was using a speedbooster like device on my gh2 so the gh2 crop factor was reduced some..
 
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Okay thanks.

Well I have been thinking about the shot I want, and I would actually like to get closer to the actor, to the point where his whole face fills the frame, while he is pointing the gun, but still have it look the same, where it's very close to his face. So I will probably need a 400mm for that, but most rooms cannot fit that in!

It's not just the shot from the ceiling I wan though, I could use this in other shots too of a gunfight. I have been trying to mathematically research this but no luck: How many meters or feet, would I need in a room to fit this shot into? There is a location I have in mind, but will have to use a tape measure to see if there is enough space. It's a parking garage. How can I tell, since the rental shop is booked up for now as far as testing one now goes? I could try measuring how many feet for a 50mm, and then multiply it by 8. But a 50 cannot fit the whole face in the frame if someone is extending a gun so I do not how to tell how much I would need quite.

I may have to settle for 200mm if the rental store cannot get me a 200mm by that day. I know I was told that there is a store in Vancouver that ship equipment for any shoot day you ask, but I stil want a back up plan if they cannot deliver the 400mm for some reason. Here's a 200mm zoom lens for under $1000. Does this look like it's a good quality lens for filmmaking, or is it more on the cheapside, and I should strive for something better?

http://www.thesource.ca/estore/prod...z6kYC4kdrhCw3NJ2gip-fVfQW9QvNnujrEaAjQY8P8HAQ

Or how about this... What if I did that same shot, but with a 50mm, and I had the actor wrap his arms around the camera, so his face is close up in the shot, but you cannot see the gun he is aiming, cause the point of view, has moved past the gun, onto his face? Would the audience understand the shot, or does the audience have to see the gun for continuity purposes, and it will all of a sudden look like their is no gun that the man is using to aim with his eyes?

I don't have a gun prop right now, but here's a test I did on my bro using his extended hands:
 
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I have been thinking about the shot I want, and I would actually like to get closer to the actor, to the point where his whole face fills the frame, while he is pointing the gun, but still have it look the same, where it's very close to his face.

If you're going to push in that tight, you can cheat it a bit, have the actor actually hold the gun much closer to his face. You'll still want a longer lens to get that compression of z-space a bit, but a shot that tight you're not gonna see his arms to know that he's cheating it. If you don't have the compression you get with a long lens though, then it'll just end up looking like he doesn't know how to hold a handgun properly. :lol:
 
I think you're really overthinking this.. The best thing to do would be to go shoot some tests. My advice would be to hop on ebay and find a fast 200mm that'll work with your camera.. which I believe is a canon T-series, so EF mount. Then, to give yourself some flexibility with it and all the other lenses you have, pick yourself up one of these bad boys: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Kepcor-MC-2X...pters_Mounts_Tubes&hash=item2a40405c56&_uhb=1

What's that you ask? It'll multiply whatever your the focal length of your lens is by two.. So, in other words, if you get it and a 200mm, you'll have a 200mm lens, and when you put that teleconverter between the lens and the camera, you'll have a 400mm lens that's just a bit slower than your 200 (you'll lose a bit of light to the teleconverter, shouldn't be more than a stop or two). Same will hold true for all your other lenses.. if you have an 18-70 zoom, slap the teleconverter on to turn that into a 36-140 zoom, etc. It's a handy thing to have on hand, and at $50 or so, pretty darn cheap.
 
Okay thanks. I will research the teleconverter. I can buy one used, but I am afraid it will be scratched or something and you won't get your money's worth, or it will be broken. I should stop worring and just buy it.

What about this shot I did with my bro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dho-8oWK9vg&feature=youtu.be

He is not aiming a handgun since I don't have one, but the point of view is close enough to his face that you don't see the gun. Will this work with the viewer or does the audience need to see the gun, for it to look proper?

I could have an actor hold the gun that close to his face, to cheat it a bit, but I was told before on here, when I tried to cheat an OTS shot, by having the actor's closer, that that doesn't work and you cannot cheat space compression without the actors knowing. Can I cheat OTS shots too, and have the actors get closer than they are in the master shot, or what I am doing wrong?
 
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