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What lens and aperture should I use for these types of shots?

H

harmonica44

I am going to be doing some make up video tutorials for someone soon and I did a test with my camera to see what would happen. Here is a sample of rough footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp_NxagMd9M&feature=youtu.be

As you can see in the close ups, the lens can easily go out of focus if the subject moves slightly forward and backward. I watched other make up tutorials to see if I could get tips, but as far as I know the others use lenses around 50mm as well. The reason why I use a 50mm is because when I put the camera on the tripod, I have to zoom past the mirror that the woman is using to look down into.

If I use a wider lens with a greater DOF, I cannot zoom past the mirror. I used a depth of field calculator and according to it, if I have the camera two feet away from the subject on an extreme close up, at f8, I have 0.14 feet of depth of field. So obviously that's not a lot of room, but at the same time I do not want to give constant directions for the subject to stay still in a certain spot because then that could make her very pre-occupied with that, when she needs to be concentrating on her craft.

Pulling focus works if it's rehearsed and she knows when to movie foward and when to move back, but if I want to be spontaneous and just let her do her thing, is their anything I can do to get a greater DOF? I watched other similar make up tutorials and they seem to have enough DOF without constantly pulling focus. Is their anything I can do differently?
 
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harmonica44 said:
I am going to be doing some make up video tutorials for someone soon and I did a test with my camera to see what would happen. Here is a sample of rough footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp_NxagMd9M&feature=youtu.be

As you can see in the close ups, the lens can easily go out of focus if the subject moves slightly forward and backward. I watched other make up tutorials to see if I could get tips, but as far as I know the others use lenses around 50mm as well. The reason why I use a 50mm is because when I put the camera on the tripod, I have to zoom past the mirror that the woman is using to look down into.

If I use a wider lens with a greater DOF, I cannot zoom past the mirror. I used a depth of field calculator and according to it, if I have the camera two feet away from the subject on an extreme close up, at f8, I have 0.14 feet of depth of field. So obviously that's not a lot of room, but at the same time I do not want to give constant directions for the subject to stay still in a certain spot because then that could make her very pre-occupied with that, when she needs to be concentrating on her craft.

Pulling focus works if it's rehearsed and she knows when to movie foward and when to move back, but if I want to be spontaneous and just let her do her thing, is their anything I can do to get a greater DOF? I watched other similar make up tutorials and they seem to have enough DOF without constantly pulling focus. Is their anything I can do differently?
Click to expand...

Not really sure why you're not using a longer zoom lens, or at least lowering the f-stop further and compensating with ISO? Because there should be a way to make this work. Although I've mostly seen make-up tutorials done on one's self with a much wider lens facing towards them and away from any mirrors. If you're going to be filming others while applying make-up to them, then you'd likely want to use a longer lens, or turn down the f-stop further and bring in much more light.
 
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Okay thanks. Write now the longest lens I have is a 55mm so I cannot use another one. There has to be a mirror below the woman in though, so she can see herself, and I am not sure how to get the camera in front of her without zooming past the mirror.

As for compensating with ISO, the ISO is already at 3200 and noisy so if I go any higher than I have too much noise. I could go at full 6400 if that's better than having less DOF.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Okay thanks. Write now the longest lens I have is a 55mm so I cannot use another one. There has to be a mirror below the woman in though, so she can see herself, and I am not sure how to get the camera in front of her without zooming past the mirror.

As for compensating with ISO, the ISO is already at 3200 and noisy so if I go any higher than I have too much noise. I could go at full 6400 if that's better than having less DOF.
Click to expand...

I'm a little confused here. What do you mean zoom past the mirror? Are you trying to mount the camera behind the mirror in question and film over it to see your subject?

When you're filming these, where are you, where is the camera, where is the subject, and where is the mirror?

Because I think if you want to make a make-up video the most efficient, you either would want to get a much much smaller HD camera that you set right up on a desk with a mirror mounted on the wall right behind the camera, or get a mirror big enough to sit behind a camera that's set just a tiny bit lower than eye-level. That's the only way I think this can work. Unless you aren't going for the "face-on" make-up videos, and you want to shoot them from maybe a 45 degree angle. That way you can put the mirror right in front of your subject.
 
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Okay thanks. I already tried shooting 45 degrees but it doesn't look near as good as face on in comparison. Face on just seems to look better for these tutorials.

What I did was is I placed a mirror in front of the woman on a table below in front of my camera. My camera is behind it on a tripod only a few inches a way, with the lens long enough to go past the view of the mirror. I could put the camera directly above the mirror but it's only a few inches different and not sure if that would make much of a different in depth of field.

If I put a bigger mirror behind the camera, the woman said she will have to get closer to see what she is doing around her eyes, if the mirror is further away. So I have to get the mirror in closer than that, according to her.
 
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3200 ISO?
You need more light to lower ISO and increase f-stop.

What is the minimum possible focal distance of your lens? I hope it's less than 2 feet.
How close you you want to film? 1 eye only? (In that case a 100mm macro would be great, but you're right: you got to use what you've got.)
 
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Well if I open at f8, the aperture is already not very much open. I can get brighter lights but even at f8, you need really bright lights. I can get them though. I am not sure this solves the problem though because even though the noise will go away, I still could use more DOF.

With the 55mm, the mimimum distance of focus from the lens at f8 appears to be about 2/3rds of a foot away from the subject.
 
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I was trying to film myself in front of a mirror just now. I don't have a wide enough angle lens to put it on the counter by the mirror facing me.

And if I put it behind me to look at me through the mirror I keep blocking the shot with my back.

A bit of a tricky shot.
 
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So I ended up placing a large mirror on the floor with the tripod & camera in front of that. Then I sat on my meditation padding on the ground and filmed myself that way.

24mm on a t2i.
Good close up of just my face. Tripod was just a few inches off center so I could look ahead into mirror.
 
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Okay thanks. I can try that. It's just the further away the mirror is from her, the more closer she will have to look into it perhaps? I will do tests. As far as using a 24mm, it will give me more DOF but there is a lot of barrel distortion in the face in the extreme close up shots, and the eyes are more bent and harder to look at when watching someone do make up.

Is barrel distortion at that close to face kind of amateur looking perhaps?
 
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harmonica44 said:
Okay thanks. I can try that. It's just the further away the mirror is from her, the more closer she will have to look into it perhaps? I will do tests. As far as using a 24mm, it will give me more DOF but there is a lot of barrel distortion in the face in the extreme close up shots, and the eyes are more bent and harder to look at when watching someone do make up.

Is barrel distortion at that close to face kind of amateur looking perhaps?
Click to expand...

You're getting barrel distortion at 24mm?
I get that with an 8mm but I haven't noticed it at 24.

I personally only own 2 lenses so it's not like I had a wide array to trial and error test with.
24mm got the job done though. Filmed myself dying the mustache.
 
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There is no barrel distortion with wide shots with the 24mm but if I am doing an extreme face close up of a person's eyes for make up, then yes there is a significant amount. I mean you can still see the eyes but it makes the face look ugly which is not good for a make up tutorial where you want the subject to look better on camera.
 
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Yeah close up with a wide lens creates big noses :P
In that aspect a 50mm looks more natural :)

Lower ISO is helpfull, because noise is not beautiful either.

What about a low mirror with the camera peaking over it?
Or a camera looking through the mirror.
It takes some building: a dark cabin (painted black on the inside) to put the camera in with a window.

Plus lights all around the mirror like make up mirrors tend to have?
 
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If you go online, many of the top makeup tutorial YouTuber's have videos detailing their lighting and camera setups, some of them right down to the lens and ISO.

To be perfectly honest, I watched your video you have linked and I don't find the focus issue to be as distracting as you might think it is. Indeed many of the makeup tutorial folks seem to use the 50mm, too. And watching some of the top videos, I see that they occasionally drift just a little in and out of focus when doing the the really close up eye work as well. However, they seem to be a little more disciplined at staying really still while doing it. So it may be something you want to work on with her when you are doing the real close up stuff.

I will say this. Those other makeup tutorials are using a LOT more light than you seem to be using here, pretty much across the board.
 
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