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What is the relationship with a story and film?
- Thread starter Whoops
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Not sure I follow you. Are you asking why a film should tell a story? Well, it doesn't always have to. Just like there is abstract art, there are abstract films that don't necessarily tell a story, but can sometimes move you emotionally. That's usually the goal of any artistic medium.
Well, film is a storytelling medium, I don't really get the question because you would know that if you have seen at least one movie, so maybe this is not what you mean. Film is a medium period. It doesn't always have to tell a story. Been to an installation or seen experimental films? Is this helping? Please elaborate on your question. Thanks
to me... the story is just another tool in the filmmaker's box... it's not the whole point of the film... it's not "everything"... (i know many will disagree with that)... but to me, if all that someone cared about was story... they would read a book.... to me, not EVERYTHING has to support the story... to me, everything has to support the experience of the film... including the story (supposing there is one).
akira kurosawa said that he makes a film because of a certain "cinematic moment" that he envisioned for that film... in reading or writing the story.. there was something in there that he thought would be an amazing "cinematic moment"... or cinematic experience.... and THAT is why he made that particular film... everything else had to support that...
so to me... movies are about a particular kind of experience.... that experience is brought about by light and shadow... color... mood... acting... music... dialogue.. .. and yes, story.... two films by two very different directors can have exactly the same overall "story"... and yet be completely different experiences... in my filmmaking, i work towards a particular kind of experience that i am attempting to shape/create/mold for the viewer and for myself... everything else has to support that...
dunno if that helps... but those are my thoughts on it...
akira kurosawa said that he makes a film because of a certain "cinematic moment" that he envisioned for that film... in reading or writing the story.. there was something in there that he thought would be an amazing "cinematic moment"... or cinematic experience.... and THAT is why he made that particular film... everything else had to support that...
so to me... movies are about a particular kind of experience.... that experience is brought about by light and shadow... color... mood... acting... music... dialogue.. .. and yes, story.... two films by two very different directors can have exactly the same overall "story"... and yet be completely different experiences... in my filmmaking, i work towards a particular kind of experience that i am attempting to shape/create/mold for the viewer and for myself... everything else has to support that...
dunno if that helps... but those are my thoughts on it...
how are you defining story? how are you defining film? Depending on your points of definition film could be more or less a story-telling medium than books. I personally consider "story" to be a much broader category than "film"... but my definition of story is meaning centered not plot centered.
That's some pretty interesting stuff there lewis886. Sorry about not being clear in the first place, i had the question in my head then i lost it, I just put this thread up to see what answers i could get, and i found lewis886 comment to be interesting and more of what i'm looking for. I often day dream of some cinematic moments myself which usually excites me to make something BIG out of it.
You see, during the beginning of the year 2009 i sort of felt that i had lost my purpose/passion for filmmaking. During my time i read up articles about film, what is it about and what makes a good film, they say that a good film/movie has to have a good story. So i looked up about writing stories and saw the video "Jack Black Story Wizard" which teaches you about story structure. And so with his lesson i began practicing story writing and wrote a story which 8/10 people loved. I also began noticing story structure in many movies like "Get Smart", so i thought story was something MAJOR i should focus on when making movies. But then i started to doubt myself, i thought i was losing my passion for filmmaking, i didn't know why and it was driving me crazy (i'm still in highschool in 12th grade thinking of filmmaking as a career). I guess, thanks to lewis886's comment, i realize i was forgetting about my main motive; day dream of some cinematic moments myself which usually excites me to make something BIG out of it. I guess for SOME people, filmmaking is not about story telling, it's about sharing your cinematic moment with others, right???
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Well, without a compelling story to tell and engaging characters,"some" people will perhaps give you a warm fuzzy feeling that you've made art, and they'll validate you as an artist. But if your goal is to make a career out of it and make money doing it, you'll want a larger audience that will actually pay to see your film. So story is extremely important, and structure is only a small part. We humans have a structure, too. Take away all the clothes and flesh, and our skeletal structure looks pretty similar. That's the analogy you really need to keep fresh in mind. Format, spelling, structure, etc., are only half the battle. Learn to generate the desired emotional responses in your readers and in your audience. Flesh out your story and put some clothes on it.
I'd agree with most of that. Even "abstract" art (film, painting, whatever) either (1) tells a story, (2) elicits a powerful emotional response, or is (3) the artist jerking off for his own benefit. I'll look at something pretty that has no "content" for about 5 minutes, or read it for a couple of pages, but if you are expecting me to sit through a feature, it better tell a story, with a beginning, a middle, and an end.
thanks.... glad i could be of some help....
and don't think that i'm trying to say that story isn't important.... or that a good story isn't necessary... because that's not it at all.... i agree with others here that many movies today suffer from story and script problems.... so many of them could use another rewrite or 2... but they just go ahead and jump into them anyway... so yes... having a good story is incredibly important.... and having a good script is incredibly important... you should definitely work your butt off to get your story and your script as perfect as possible... but as i said... to me, the story isn't the whole point of the film.... the story is a framework, a structure (as VPTurner said in the post above) that you can build upon.... this framework is part of how you build the experience of your film... make the best story you can... and make the best use of it you can... but just don't neglect the other tools in your toolbox either... all of these different tools and methods and parts come together to create an experience for the audience... in my opinion, that experience is what you're working towards... everything (including the story/script) should be working towards that particular kind of experience that you are wanting to elicit in your viewer.
EDIT: oh, and one other thing... a "cinematic moment" doesn't simply mean something that looks cool... don't focus only on some scene or shot that looks cool.. and neglect the rest of your film... and cinematic moment is an "experience"... which has more to do with meaning and emotion than visual flash... it can definitely involve something that is artistically and aesthetically cool... but that's not all... concentrate more on the depth of the cinematic moment than the flash of it... and the experience of the film as a whole is what is important... not only the "cinematic moment"
and don't think that i'm trying to say that story isn't important.... or that a good story isn't necessary... because that's not it at all.... i agree with others here that many movies today suffer from story and script problems.... so many of them could use another rewrite or 2... but they just go ahead and jump into them anyway... so yes... having a good story is incredibly important.... and having a good script is incredibly important... you should definitely work your butt off to get your story and your script as perfect as possible... but as i said... to me, the story isn't the whole point of the film.... the story is a framework, a structure (as VPTurner said in the post above) that you can build upon.... this framework is part of how you build the experience of your film... make the best story you can... and make the best use of it you can... but just don't neglect the other tools in your toolbox either... all of these different tools and methods and parts come together to create an experience for the audience... in my opinion, that experience is what you're working towards... everything (including the story/script) should be working towards that particular kind of experience that you are wanting to elicit in your viewer.
EDIT: oh, and one other thing... a "cinematic moment" doesn't simply mean something that looks cool... don't focus only on some scene or shot that looks cool.. and neglect the rest of your film... and cinematic moment is an "experience"... which has more to do with meaning and emotion than visual flash... it can definitely involve something that is artistically and aesthetically cool... but that's not all... concentrate more on the depth of the cinematic moment than the flash of it... and the experience of the film as a whole is what is important... not only the "cinematic moment"
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I think story is the most important thing, really, but that it's far from being limited to the screenplay. I think the brilliant thing about filmmaking is that it requires so many other elements to tell a good story. This can include the music, the cinematography, the editing, the performances. You need that strong script, but I'm sure we can all think of films done in by a good script but with nothing to support its storytelling ambitions.
