What is Required Viewing?

sfoster

sfoster

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How much film should a director have seen in order to be great at his job?

If you make it into a hollywood exec's office, but get lost when someone makes a Jaws reference is that just embarrassing? Or is it damaging to your credibility as a director if you've never seen Jaws.

A facet to the original question, how much film is required viewing?
I personally enjoy watching older b&w films, because it's more like what a low budget indie director could create today.
 
I've been explained it like this: If you don't know current information and references for films within the genre you're pitching, you're an idiot. Current is 5 years. It includes successes and failures, what they cost, made, P&A, who, and so on.

Your knowledge of B&W films won't help do much but connect on a personal level with an older executive that cares for that sort of thing.

I say that it's also helpful to know the influences on the genre as well. Creature feature/suspense films would do well to know the mechanics of Jaws and how those mechanics worked.

Though we're really about the area of producers more than directors.
 
Probably a very volatile topic. I'll chip in my thoughts.

You should probably see as many of the Top 100 Films as you can manage. I guess I've seen almost all of the AFI top 100.

http://www.afi.com/100Years/movies.aspx

You should probably see as many of the "cultural phenomenon" films of each era as you can - such as "Jaws," "The Breakfast Club," "Blade Runner," "Fight Club," "Goodfellas," "The Matrix," "Pulp Fiction," "Reservoir Dogs," etc. Some of these probably fall into film and cultural history category more than actual "great" filmmaking.

You should probably see as many of the AMPAS (Oscars) Best Picture winners as you can. These also might fall into the film and cultural history category, since they are also filmmaking industry political choices. I've seen most of those, as well. Quite a few are on the AFI top 100. If you follow a specific craft you should see as many of the Oscar winners in that category as you can; for me that would be Sound Editing and Sound Mixing. (BTW, I much preferred the "bake-off" format where ONLY sound folks got together in LA to view/listen to all the Sound Editing & Sound Mixing nominees and voted on the sound categories. To me an award decided by your peers was definitely superior. This format was discontinued in 2006.)

http://www.oscars.org/awards/academyawards/legacy/best-pictures.html

Of course, you need to see the top Indie films, although this has been and always will be a hotly debated category.

http://www.filmsite.org/independentfilms.html

After that you need to see the better films in your genre.

My reasons are that these are "representatives" of the filmmaking "language."

I also believe that indie filmmakers especially need to watch older films - 30's, 40's, and 50's - since they were made without all of our wonderful technological toys, and $1 million and lower budget indie films just can't compete with the current hi-tech films, and must rely on story and characters as did those older films.
 
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Sweetie said:
Your knowledge of B&W films won't help do much but connect on a personal level with an older executive that cares for that sort of thing.
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Interesting. The first thing I did when I decided I wanted to try my hand at film making was make sure I'd seen the top 50 films for AFI and IMDB at least. Also watched some from time magazines list as well.

I thought it too foolhardy to make a film without knowledge of the classics.
i rate everything and track it, review it, and i keep asking myself what makes a film great
 
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I think watching bad films . . . even the so-so kind that just make you look at your watch tops going to film school. What you seeing/just saw? DON'T DO IT! Click on 99% of the films posted in IT for a nice sampling of bad films.

People want new and different. Not stuff they've seen before.
 
I've only seen 41 of the AFI 100, and 35 of the top 50 indies. But, for me, that's a nice sample. There's a lot of films on those lists that I have no interest in watching, despite the fact that I'm sure I could learn a lot from them.

I want to watch films that I enjoy and I want to make films that I enjoy. I feel I'm better served watching films in "my" genre, which, incidentaly, is horror. Actually, I watch a fair number of no-budget horrors, the sort of thing I'm quite hopeful to be making one day soon. I don't think there's an official top 100 no-budget horrors, but if there was, I might give them a go!

Watch whatever you want. You want to be a filmmaker? I can only assume you're a fan of films. Watch as many as you can from all over. It's probably not necessary to have a Tarantino-like encyclopedic knowledge of film history, but watching, perhaps, your own, peesonal, top 1000 might be the best place to start.
 
There was a list of films on the internet of the 200 or so films Steven Spielberg expected you to have seen if you wanted to work with him. Most of them were oldies. I think the list was debunked as being a fake though. :hmm:

I have heard him say in interviews though that the best thing you can do if you want to make films is to watch as many old films as you can get your hands on. I don't know whether it would be 'expected' of you, but it certainly couldn't hurt from a personal development aspect.
 
Just to clarify: not my favorite films, just films that are often referenced and/or considered "essential".

Citizen Kane
Casablanca
The Godfather
Apocalypse Now
Annie Hall
Taxi Driver
Raging Bull
Psycho
Goodfellas
Jaws
Pulp Fiction
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
Gone with the Wind
The Shining
Star Wars
The Dollars Trilogy
Fight Club
The Big Lewboski
The Wizard of Oz
Dirty Harry (and Sudden Impact)
The Silence of the Lambs
ET
Dr. No
Midnight Cowboy
A Few Good Men
When Harry Met Sally
The Terminator
Forrest Gump
Bonnie and Clyde
The Graduate
Some Like it Hot
Scarface
Dr. Strangelove
Die Hard
Chinatown
The "Classic" monster movies (Dracula, Frankenstein, The Wolf-man, etc.)

I quote these films on a daily basis

Someone insults me:

"That's just like - your opinion man"

I tell a lie, and someones trying to get me to tell the truth:

"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

Some really p!$$#$ me off:

"You're entering a world of pain"

When I wake up:

"I love the smell of _____ in the morning."

When someone talks about the movie Fight Club:

"The first rule of Fight Club, you never talk about Fight Club."
 
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ChimpPhobiaFilms said:
"Play it again Sam"
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Although Bogie never said that.

When Ilsa first enters the Café Americain, she spots Sam and asks him to "Play it once, Sam, for old times' sake." After he feigns ignorance, she responds, "Play it, Sam. Play 'As Time Goes By'." Later that night, alone with Sam, Rick says, "You played it for her, you can play it for me," and "If she can stand it, I can! Play it!"
 
sfoster said:
Interesting. The first thing I did when I decided I wanted to try my hand at film making was make sure I'd seen the top 50 films for AFI and IMDB at least. Also watched some from time magazines list as well.

I thought it too foolhardy to make a film without knowledge of the classics.
i rate everything and track it, review it, and i keep asking myself what makes a film great
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As a filmmaker, yes. Though your post highly suggested towards the executives office, which usually means pitching. For that purpose, there's no real need to go back that far.

I personally find a lot of value in the top 250, but you really need to know what you're looking for. There are movies in the top 250 that aren't that good, so you'll also need to work out why those movies also succeeded. At the same time, it's also important to have the data for movies that were in the same time line, and other movie greats that didn't do so well at the box office. It's all interconnected.

That all being said, knowledge of the classics really holds a back seat to knowing the basics of filmmaking. It really comes down to great storytelling and getting it on the screen.

As a director, your abilities are determined by what you've made, not what you watch.
 
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Sweetie said:
That all being said, knowledge of the classics really holds a back seat to knowing the basics of filmmaking. It really comes down to great storytelling and getting it on the screen.

As a director, your abilities are determined by what you've made, not what you watch.
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where does great storytelling come from? that is what i ask myself over and over as i watch these old movies. I felt i learned a lot from the experience but still plenty to learn about audio and other technical aspects.. to actually get it on the screen as you say
 
Sweetie said:
knowledge of the classics really holds a back seat to knowing the basics of filmmaking.
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Those classic films established the basic language of filmmaking, and those lessons apply to this day. The cultural context may be different, but the filmmaking language remains the same. That's why they deserve study, not to mention the fact that they are great films.

Sweetie said:
It really comes down to great storytelling and getting it on the screen.
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Getting a great story onto the screen requires an instinctual knowledge of the filmmaking language, a language defined by those classic films. There are "rules" and "clichés" that "must" be used because A) they work, and B) the audience expects it

And yes, I know; rules are made to be broken. But those times that the rules are broken they are broken with a full knowledge of how to break them within the established filmmaking structure to cause a specific emotion in the viewer, not because you just say "F*<k the rules.". You lose your audience if you "speak" in a language they don't understand.
 
sfoster said:
How much film should a director have seen in order to be great at his job?
A director must be good at managing resources to shoot the film he/she wants shot and released with the available resources to do so.

How many films or which types of films almost doesn't even matter.

If you make it into a hollywood exec's office, but get lost when someone makes a Jaws reference is that just embarrassing? Or is it damaging to your credibility as a director if you've never seen Jaws.
No one sitting in a Hollywood exec's office will be having a conversation about past films unless it's in direct relationship to the one you're trying to get financed and produced at the time in which case you should have done your homework already.

Conversational knowledge of film is fine for cocktail and pool parties, but not getting your film financed or produced.

A facet to the original question, how much film is required viewing?
No such criteria.

Before even launching into attempting to make an indie film for production you should have a very good handle on what has been made in that double genré's immediate and legacy history so that you can provide a valuable product for current consumers.

I personally enjoy watching older b&w films, because it's more like what a low budget indie director could create today.
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Umm... that's a fairly erroneous POV.
You should seggregate your personal interest in older B&W films as just that - a personal interest, maybe even an artistic style to pursue professionally.

The marketability of that older style is extremely limited today.

And don't assume technology has come so far since then that it could be sensibly reproduced for a lot cheaper.

The whole process is so much more complicated than just cheaper cameras and DIY digital distribution.


FWIW, analytically and deconstructively watch as many films as you have time for, preferably on DVD where you can also get the writer/director/producer/actor commentaries to learn more about the process.

Cabin Fever & Fight Club have the best DVD menu of commentariess and BTS I've seen.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303816/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0137523/?ref_=sr_1

At some point you'll get sick and tired of seeig the same stupid mistakes (for me it's often in story construction) and you start really chomping at the bit to just make your own d@mn movie.

Heh, heh, heh... :evil: then the REEEEEEAL fun begins.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Those classic films established the basic language of filmmaking, and those lessons apply to this day. The cultural context may be different, but the filmmaking language remains the same. That's why they deserve study, not to mention the fact that they are great films.

Getting a great story onto the screen requires an instinctual knowledge of the filmmaking language, a language defined by those classic films. There are "rules" and "clichés" that "must" be used because A) they work, and B) the audience expects it

And yes, I know; rules are made to be broken. But those times that the rules are broken they are broken with a full knowledge of how to break them within the established filmmaking structure to cause a specific emotion in the viewer, not because you just say "F*<k the rules.". You lose your audience if you "speak" in a language they don't understand.
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I think you're getting caught up in the words instead of the meaning.

You're saying watching the lessons teaches you the rules. I'm saying, it's less important to watch the movies so long as you know the rules and can implement them. You're arguing a similar point from a different direction. Though I don't claim to know every directors viewing list, I'm sure there are talented directors who are capable of achieving the results who haven't seen each and every movie on that list.

Does anyone know of any ways outside watching the classics that you can learn the craft of filmmaking. ;)
 
Sweetie said:
You're saying watching the lessons teaches you the rules. I'm saying, it's less important to watch the movies so long as you know the rules and can implement them.
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I'm actually not sure learning the rules by watching is particularly efficient, but I'd still argue that watching films is equally important to knowing them. It's easy to get a book and memorize "the rules" of filmmaking - but the reality is there's a lot of wiggle room in those rules when it comes to implementation. Watching a wide variety of films helps to inform those rules in terms of what the range of implementations may be, as well as when & why they are commonly broken and what the effect of that is.
 
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