What is a realistic boom mic budget?

K

Komitact

I'm producing an independent movie (very low budget, do-it-yourself type film) but I want to have good audio. Something that will sound professional in a movie theater. Usually when you ask for advice about mics, the first response you will get is "what's your budget?" But what I'm wondering is what kind of budget do I need?

What's the minimum budget I'll need for a professional sounding boom mic?

Thanks!
 
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First, there is no such thing as a boom mic; almost any mic can be hung on the end of a boom pole.

The reason people ask about the specific budget is that "very low budget, do-it-yourself type film" is much too vague. I live between two worlds, so to speak; two miles south of me the average income is about $30k a year, five miles in the other direction it's more like $150k a year and many of those families have two of those incomes. Two miles south of me a family will share a 15 year old car, five miles north of me the kids get brand new cars to drive to high school. Which world do you live in?

A basic prosumer kit is about $1,200. It will be a shotgun mic, hypercardioid mic, audio recorder and the needed accessories (boom-pole, cables, cases, etc.). Will it be "Something that will sound professional in a movie theater?" That will depend upon greatly upon the quality of your audio post, because production sound is only half the sonic battle. But the quality of your audio post will depend upon the quality of your production sound; GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Everything comes down to skill, knowledge and experience. A professional production sound person can give you solid production sound with minimal gear. If you are handing the audio recorder and boom pole to whichever PA isn't busy it won't it matter you if have a $50,000 production sound kit; s/he doesn't have the skills, knowledge or experience to use it effectively.

You may find this thread to be of interest:

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=49443
 
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Komitact said:
I'm producing an independent movie (very low budget, do-it-yourself type film) but I want to have good audio. Something that will sound professional in a movie theater... What's the minimum budget I'll need for a professional sounding boom mic?
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Maybe I can draw an analogy to your question, to put it into context because I don't think you realise what you have asked:

"I have a very low budget, what's the minimum budget I need to spend on an engine for my car to enable me to race professionally in a Formula 1 Grand Prix?"

First of all there's a great deal more to a grand prix car than just a powerful engine and secondly, even if you had a proper grand prix car you wouldn't be able to even drive it competently, let alone race it professionally, you would need an experienced professional formula race car driver. You have to realise that theatrical sound is like the Formula 1 of audio-visual content, it is the very pinnacle of audio-visual content with the very highest quality expectations/requirements. In short, there is no such thing as a professional sound boom mic, there are high quality mics suitable for use on a boom, which when connected with other high end recording equipment and operated by a professional will most often result in professional theatrical quality production sound.

Very low budget as far as professional theatrical features are concerned is still well over a million dollars, this is largely because of the high quality of equipment required and the numerous highly skilled professionals which have to be hired to operate it all to achieve professional theatrical quality results.

Your only realistic options are to hire a professional production sound team or to significantly lower your production sound quality expectations.

G
 
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For a DIY indie film operation spend more on your audio equipment than you do on your current camera setup.
Honestly, it will last three times as long as your camera will, so it's worth it.

So, the question now is "How much does your camera, lenses, and support equipment cost?"
Tally that and you'll know what a comparable audio hardware budget will be just North of. ;)


What on Earth makes you think your film will be shown in a movie theater?




PS. Just watched 'Date Thief', that kickstarter campaign, and your recent YT channel videos.
What specific issues were you hoping to improve on on those audio collections?
 
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8salacious9 said:
whatever you do, don't get the Tascam DR-40, iv not had it long and its by far the worse product iv ever had, constant buzzing noises from its own hardware how annoying!
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Interesting, that's what alcove recommended in another thread. are you using an external mic, because i don't think it's intended to be used for film with the onboard ones

I'm curious why this basic audio kit alcove recommended doesn't have a field mixer. I'm new to sound, but some videos i've watched online have made the field mixer and adjustment of gain and level to seem really important for the noise to signal ratio
 
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See if you can return or exchange that one, Salacious.
I've had mine (a factory serviced refurb) for a month and have not had that experience.
Nothing but clean.
 
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sfoster said:
Interesting, that's what alcove recommended in another thread. are you using an external mic, because i don't think it's intended to be used for film with the onboard ones

I'm curious why this basic audio kit alcove recommended doesn't have a field mixer. I'm new to sound, but some videos i've watched online have made the field mixer and adjustment of gain and level to seem really important for the noise to signal ratio
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I use it with a Rode ntg-1

and to RAY I believe its the dreaded Helicopter noise, It starts to come on after 10 minutes use, if you put your ear to the device you can actually hear the electronic signal beeping like mad, you can also hear it on the headphones, I have sent TASCAM a message on their website but they haven't replied to me..

apparently there is a fix which is when you start recording, you press the menu button that makes it go away, I haven't tried it yet though...
 
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rayw said:
Ah. I've not recorded anything for any longer than about five minutes.
Interesting.
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I believe its a firmware problem, but with the 60d out I doubt they will be focusing much on the dr-40 anymore

quite sad as its features are really really good.

My first thought was that the battery had to be kept above 70% charge, do you use any external power supply with yours ray?
 
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sfoster said:
I'm curious why this basic audio kit alcove recommended doesn't have a field mixer.
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Because it's a "basic audio kit"! Most no budget indy film makers want professional audio quality but have a budget of a few hundred rather than the tens of thousands that a pro set of production sound equipment costs, not to mention the skills required to operate it. In the end they settle for anything better than the extremely crap audio recording capabilities built into DSLRs which, with a budget of just a few hundred, is; a low budget prosumer recorder, a low budget prosumer mic and the cheapest or even DIY accessories (boom, etc.). No where near as good a setup as having a decent field mixer but including a field mixer is going to require a total budget well over $1k and is beyond what many indy film makers have to spend.

G
 
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sfoster said:
I'm curious why this basic audio kit Alcove recommended doesn't have a field mixer. I'm new to sound, but some videos i've watched online have made the field mixer and adjustment of gain and level to seem really important for the noise to signal ratio
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My "basic" production sound kit is $1,200. If you get some good deals and DIY a few things you can get it for under $1,000.

As to why I don't recommend a mixer...

First, adding a mixer substantially increases the price. At $500 the PSC ProMix 3 is the least expensive mixer I would recommend; now the "basic" production sound kit is $1,700. That's a serious chunk of change for indie types.

Secondly, how many indie audio newbs would even know how to properly use a mixer?

Third, 98.7% of the time the notional PSM is also the boom-op; how can s/he mix while booming?

Fourth; these folks are audio ignorant, and despite protests to the contrary, most of them could give a rodents anal sphincter about production sound once they get on the set.

So my fifth reason is KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. My basic kit is as close to "set it and forget it" as is possible considering the situational circumstances. I can't tell you how many times I've been on a set where the director and DP will spend two hours setting up the visuals, and less than two minutes setting up the audio. I mean, c'mon; let's get real here....

sfoster said:
I thought there were some reasonably priced field mixers out there, but I have no idea what real-world difference any of them make
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Most budget mixers are aimed at musicians. The dB levels are much higher than in film/video production sound, and you can usually get the mic within an inch or two of the sound source. So noisy preamps are nowhere near the problem that they are/would be with film/video production sound. And the preamps in the budget mixers are NOISY!!!!!! You just don't notice it - until you try to use one of them on a film/video set (or record something quiet and subtle). Then the hissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss becomes VERY noticeable. Now add that hiss to the hiss of the micro-budget audio recorder, then add more hiss due to improper gain-staging. Oh, and now let's add in the on-set noise because the mic is not aimed properly.

Professional field mixers aimed at film/video production sound have extremely quiet preamps, and can run for very long periods of time on quality batteries. That costs a great deal of money; the Sound Devices 302 - entry level professional equipment - is $1,600, $400 more than my entire "basic" kit. Even the Sound Devices MM-1 (which is not really a mixer) is $500.

So I come back to KISS; plug a mic into an audio recorder, hit record, and hope for the best. If the filmmaker really wants it done right s/he will hire a professional.
 
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Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me!
There's so much misinformation out there.

Alcove Audio said:
Third, 98.7% of the time the notional PSM is also the boom-op; how can s/he mix while booming?
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Definitely not trying to argue this point, but yes I saw a website with a drawing of a boom-op using a field mixer at the same time. The mixer was strapped to his belly.

Places like that are where my confusion comes from
 
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You mean like this?

index.php


Or this?

index.php


Or this?

index.php



Yup, you'll see "one-man-band" professionals who have the entire kit slung around their neck. They know exactly what they are doing all the time. They are also using very pricey professional gear, where audio recorders do nothing except record audio and you have no choice but to use a mixer. S/he also probably has several wireless lavs running at the same time - not to mention sending a feed to the video village.
 
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It would be cool if they invented a wire that connects to the mixer, and plugs into a remote control, that is strapped onto the boom, so you can turn dials that are on the boom while you are holding it. It would be just like a wire follow focus, but for audio.
 
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harmonica44 said:
It would be cool if they invented a wire that connects to the mixer, and plugs into a remote control, that is strapped onto the boom, so you can turn dials that are on the boom while you are holding it. It would be just like a wire follow focus, but for audio.
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But how do you watch the actors and the audio levels at the same time? How can you adjust levels and boom at the same time, since both hands are on the boom-pole? That's why you need to know the script intimately and have worked the blocking and rehearsals, so you know when to back the mic off a bit.
 
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