What do you guys think of this camera?

Yodaman

Yodaman

Hey everyone,

I should state beforehand that I don't have the money to buy a camera, but I'm still looking to get an idea and I know I could afford it within the next year. :)

Anyway, here's the product information page: http://pro.jvc.com/pro/hm100/index.jsp

For an independent filmmaker, do you think that would be a good start, or is it perhaps too much power? Also, do you have any recommendations for any specific kind of camera?

Thanks to any and all who respond!

-Yodaman
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
It's a really nice camera. Of course, on the other hand you can get the basically the same image quality and whatnot for 1/3 the price with one of the new canon's... like the HFS10
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Thanks for the response!

All of the Canon Vixia camcorders don't have 3 CCDs, which is becoming pretty necessary for me. A camera with one CCD doesn't work as well for chroma key work. ;)

One thing that does attract me to Canon, though, is that it claims to have a 24p "Cinema Mode". It says that you can change the frame rate to 24fps, but it's recorded at 60i. What does that mean, exactly?

I'll continue shopping around and comparing. Perhaps the vixia will be nice in the long run, but I'm thinking I may need to go with something more professional.

EDIT:

After watching several test videos shot with the Vixia HF S10 (or 100), I think I'm sold on it. :) I'm still confused on what it means by 24p being recorded in 60i though. Can anybody fill me in on what that means please? Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
I own that camera. And it’s big brother.

I like it much better than the HFS10 which I have used several
times and is a fine camera. I think it’s a great staring camera
for an independent filmmaker.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Yodaman said:
All of the Canon Vixia camcorders don't have 3 CCDs, which is becoming pretty necessary for me. A camera with one CCD doesn't work as well for chroma key work. ;)
Click to expand...
You're right, the vixia cameras use a CMOS chip, not multiple CCD chips. there are advantages to both, but for what it's worth the Red uses a single CMOS sensor too, a much higher end one, but still..

Yodaman said:
you can change the frame rate to 24fps, but it's recorded at 60i. What does that mean, exactly?
Click to expand...
That means the 24 frames per second are wrapped into a standard 60 interlaced fields per second video stream using a process called pulldown. In editing, pulldown is removed, either automatically by your NLE or using a third party solution (like the products from cineform) leaving you with the 23.976 progressive frames per second, or 24p, to edit and do post production with.

While I'm certain that JVC is a very nice camera, if it's out of your price range then it's out of your price range, and the hfs10 or something similar will give you plenty of bang for your buck to get going making films without having to wait to start because you can't afford it..

"It's too expensive" was one of the excuses that caused me to put off pursuing anything toward realizing my filmmaking aspirations for ~20 years.. don't be like me. Get something you can afford, and start making something. Upgrade when you can in the future -- if you find that you need to.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
I own that camera. And it’s big brother.

I like it much better than the HFS10 which I have used several
times and is a fine camera. I think it’s a great staring camera
for an independent filmmaker.
Click to expand...

I'm confused. Do you mean you own the JVC GY-HM100 and like it better than the Canon HF S10, but you still like the HF S10 and think it's okay for independent filming?

EDIT:

Will, thanks for posting that! Do you know of any editing software that offers pulldown (that doesn't cost more than a few hundred bucks)?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Yodaman said:
Do you know of any editing software that offers pulldown (that doesn't cost more than a few hundred bucks)?
Click to expand...
Let me fire a question your way..

why are you willing to spend $1-3k on a camera but not buy a decent editing package?

Are you planning to use only the on camera mic and available lighting too?

Seriously. I would recommend nothing less than Sony Vegas for editing. I *think* it does the pulldown removal, but I'm not entirely certain. I personally use the cineform intermediate codec, which handles the pulldown removal, and I edit my HV20 footage with Premiere.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I was willing to save up enough money to buy the JVC camera because I thought I'd have to buy a camera that expensive to record decent HD video (decent enough for small films that actually look like films). I wouldn't want to spend more than a few hundred dollars on editing software because I also want to purchase lights, green screen material and external microphone without spending greater than a couple of thousand dollars on top of the $1200 Canon HF S10.

In the future I plan to buy an iMac for video editing, but I wasn't sure if I should get Final Cut (either Express or Pro) or Adobe (both of which would cost roughly the same). Sorry that I didn't mention that earlier, that's my bad.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I see... so you don't want to spend a bunch of cash on PC editing software when you'll be switching to mac and buying final cut or adobe in the future..

That makes a bit more sense. ;) Sorry, but that's a pet peeve, people blow a ton of money on a camera and then expect it'll automagically take care of everything else for them or something.. lol

Incidentally, if you go to final cut route, I'd recommend final cut studio, since it gives you all the other stuff important to creating a polished final product that just final cut along doesn't..

I'm a fan of Adobe (and not a fan of mac) .. rumor is that CS5 will be entirely 64bit, not just the pc version of photoshop being 64bit as it is currently with cs4.

At the end of the day they both do the same thing, it's just more which tool works better for you.

So, in the meantime.. inexpensive editing software.. you might be able to get by with something like Ulead (which is going for under $100 these days). I'm not certain if it does the pulldown removal, but you can get NeoScene from cineform for just over $100, and they'd probably let you switch the license over to mac in the future... so that wouldn't be a wasted investment.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Yeah, that's pretty much it. I actually plan on buying the iMac first, then the camera, but with how much I want this camera...I may buy it several months in advance. :P That would give me time to learn its secrets as well.

Thanks for recommending Final Cut Pro. That makes you like the fifth person to recommend it to me. :)

EDIT:

Just looked at the Vixia HF S200, which offers native 24p recording. I'm assuming it means that it records it in true 24p and not in 60i. Link. :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
Yodaman said:
I'm confused. Do you mean you own the JVC GY-HM100 and like it better than the Canon HF S10, but you still like the HF S10 and think it's okay for independent filming?
Click to expand...
Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I own the HM100 and the HM700.
I like the JVC better than Canon.

I've found that cameras can be a lot like cars - and even soft
drinks and beer. People who love their Ford don't like a GM car.
Doesn't make the GM a bad car and doesn't make ford a good
one. People who like Pepsi or Bud might not like Coke or Miller.

All the major manufacturers of cameras make fine cameras for
independent films. My producing partner owns Canon cameras
- I own JVC. When he shoots and I direct, we use the Canon.
When I shoot and he directs we use the JVC. The audience
watching the final movie have no idea at all, nor do they care,
what camera was used. You will be happy with the HFS10 and
you will be quite happy if you buy the HM100. I suspect which
ever one you buy you will become a convert to that brand for life.

I'm with Will; the camera isn't what's going to make a small film
actually look like film. No video camera alone will make your
project look like it was shot on film. Don't easily dismiss the skill,
talent and experience of the people who make movies look good.
They make the difference - not the camera.

That said, I love the JVC. I used it as my "B" camera when shooting
"The Amazing Race". The footage is wonderful! But is seems you
need to spend less on a camera so you can buy other, much needed
items. So I think the Canon is better for you.

Are you a Coke or Pepsi guy?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I understand that it's not just the camera that creates the style of the movie. Sorry if it came across like I didn't. Sometimes I'm not very clear at expressing what I want/need to say. :\

Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm going to go with the Vixia HF S200. It's very similar to the JVC pro camcorder in that it has dual-SDHC card recording capability and a pretty decent image sensor (it doesn't have 3 CCDs, it has an RGB Primary Color Filter that simulates the effect of 3 CCDs very well), as well as native 24p. It's perfect and exactly what I need.

So, to answer your question directorik, I think I'm a Pepsi guy. :)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Ahh yes, the as yet unrelease HFS200.. I think the only difference between it and the HFS100 is that it lets you record true 24fps, not 24p within a 60i wrapper.. (it does that as well as an option).

So, I guess the HFS200 would basically be the sd card version of the HV40, with a better lens.

Incidentally the only difference between the 200 and the 20 is that the 200 will not include internal flash memory. That's probably not an issue since you'll likely want several SDHC cards to swap out as needed anyway, and the cost will probably be $100-200 less than the HFS20.

I'd expect the street price for the HFS200 will probably be in the neighborhood of $1500-1700 when it becomes available in April.

I think you'll be quite happy with that camera, and it should serve you well for many years. :)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Well here I was, thinking I'd be happy with the Canon Vixia, when I stumbled upon this stunning video on Vimeo. I highly recommend viewing it, it's simply beautiful. I could swear it was shot on film!

Anyway, would you believe that that video was shot on this DSLR camera (also from Canon)? The fact that it's also cheaper than the JVC I was originally looking at and can take beautiful images is really convincing me that I want to try out a DSLR camera. However, I'm wondering if any of you know about things like frame rates and such. I can't find any list of supported frame rates for it. Do you think it offers native 24p recording? And do you think purchasing a DSLR camera for use in filmmaking would be wise?

Thanks for all the tips and advice so far guys, and sorry to bother you again! It's just that that video amazed me. :)

EDIT:

Never mind, I found another video that was shot with a different camera (this one), and the details says it shoots in 24p. :D

Here's the other video.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
directorik said:
I've found that cameras can be a lot like cars - and even soft
drinks and beer. People who love their Ford don't like a GM car.
Doesn't make the GM a bad car and doesn't make ford a good
one. People who like Pepsi or Bud might not like Coke or Miller.
Click to expand...

I'm a total heathen. Right now I own video cameras made by Panasonic, JVC, Sony and Canon. All good.

(Also don't give a damn if it's Pepsi or Coke as long as the rum is decent. :D )
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I dunno, they all look like digital to me. Nicely shot, but digital. ;)

There is an issue you should be aware of with the dSLR.. it's mic has auto gain control that cannot be disabled, so you'd most likely be forced to record audio externally to ensure that your levels aren't all over the place.

I know for certain this was an issue with the 5D, and I'm pretty certain I've read that it's still an issue with the 7D
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The mic doesn't really bother me as I know I'll be using an external mic for all the things I plan to shoot with it. In fact I've been looking up ways to create a cheap boom mic pole for no more than $30, since I don't really feel like spending $100+ on a metal pole. I mean, I'll have to eventually, but right now I need to save all the money I can. ;)

I dunno, they all look like digital to me. Nicely shot, but digital
Click to expand...

Yeah, after watching it a couple of times I could tell it was digital, but when I first saw the video I thought it looked remarkably like film, at least in terms of sharpness and depth of field effects. It's truly amazing what one can do with the right filters and knowledge. :)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Yodaman said:
The mic doesn't really bother me as I know I'll be using an external mic for all the things I plan to shoot with it. In fact I've been looking up ways to create a cheap boom mic pole for no more than $30, since I don't really feel like spending $100+ on a metal pole. I mean, I'll have to eventually, but right now I need to save all the money I can. ;)
Click to expand...

The issue isn't the mic, because nobody in their right mind would try to shoot something watchable with an internal mic.. The issue is the mic circuit has auto gain that can't be disabled. So you would need an external unit to record to, along with you boom, mic, etc..
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top