What are the issues with using real weapons on set?

S

stef

I will assume all responses come with the "I'm not responsible for your idiocy or accidents, and I don't advocate weapons on set" disclaimer. I would certainly rather use action replica guns, but those replicas are not that cheap (and the ones that are cheap, look cheap).

I realize that things like knives you have to be ultra-careful with, especially if the talent starts getting excited. I've always considered knives much more dangerous to video than guns, since guns can be turned into a simple chunk of metal (basically a rock), while knives always remain dangerous in range of other talent. I have used a real knife on set and we were extremely careful, making sure any stabbing action done was out of frame while the actor had an empty hand.

I'm asking how many people have used real weapons (unloaded and made as safe as possible) on set, and anything inobvious I might need to worry about, besides obvious issues like some idiot bringing ammo.

What about things like removing the firing pin, or somehow occluding the chamber (like a ball of gaffer tape)? Or is it just a horrible idea at pretty much all times?

(Some background: firearms are completely legal where I live with no issues, and I'm well-trained in use, breakdown, and maintenance. I'm worried about safety, as I have a HUGE aversion to allowing anyone to point even an unloaded firearm at someone else without serious protection in place.)
 
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directorik said:
I have never had a gun mishap on a set I've worked on. I
have, however, had accidents with bladed weapons. So in
my, personal, experience having a gun on set is far safer
than having a bladed weapon. Got a few "doh!" stories
involving the Freddy's hero glove...
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I remember reading about how Jimmy Smits accidentally stabbed a stuntman a few times when a real knife somehow got switched for the prop on the set of Dexter. The stuntman was actually in restraints on a table and realized at the last second what was happening, but was helpless to stop it as he yelled out. Apparently, he fortunately had a plastic chest plate on, (I guess that is standard) and it saved him from serious injury.

There are many stories of knife injuries on stage. In Austria a few years back, an actor accidentally slit his own throat during the climactic moment where his character commits suicide - in front of a live audience.
 
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I imagine knife incidents are more common because they're seen as 'less dangerous' than a firearm - whilst most would employ an armourer and take proper procedure with a firearm, there's generally a much more lax feeling about knives. I've never worked on a set where we've had live firearms without an armourer, but I've worked on a few sets where we've had knives without anyone necessarily 'looking after the safety' of it.

On the topic of guns, I was fired at on a set about a year ago - I was Focus Pulling and the four heros were shooting blanks 'past' the camera. I felt pretty safe only because there was a highly experienced armourer on set who briefed the actors, spent a lot of time with them, and ensured the safety of the entire set. If there were no armourer, I would've walked before putting myself in the firing line, regardless of whether they were even loaded.
 
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jax_rox said:
On the topic of guns, I was fired at on a set about a year ago - I was Focus Pulling and the four heros were shooting blanks 'past' the camera. I felt pretty safe only because there was a highly experienced armourer on set who briefed the actors, spent a lot of time with them, and ensured the safety of the entire set. If there were no armourer, I would've walked before putting myself in the firing line, regardless of whether they were even loaded.
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Wise call.

Blanks are dangerous too...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTMpKjBe9Mc
 
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if any producer bought real guns on to any set i was working on i would
turn the lights off, pack them back in the truck and drive away.

when i got home i would still invoice him for the full day.
 
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darty said:
if any producer bought real guns on to any set i was working on i would
turn the lights off, pack them back in the truck and drive away.

when i got home i would still invoice him for the full day.
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People have different views on firearms. I live in the "old west" where it is largely rural, and firearms have little more emotional impact than a hammer. They are merely useful tools, but they've also become useful political tools. Where you are and where I am are completely different, and if a producer brought real guns to your set, he'd probably be breaking the law.

Reread your quote, and then substitute in some dangerous-when-misused tool like "Skil saw". That's how it sounded to me. (BTW, I'm not picking on you, I'm trying to give you an idea of my perspective.)

if any producer [brought] real skilsaws on to any set i was working on i would
turn the lights off, pack them back in the truck and drive away.
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skln5480-01.jpg



In any case, I simply didn't know *why* it was such a bad idea, but I have a pretty good idea now.

I found some pretty nice airsoft guns, some pellet guns, and some blank guns and could probably get several replica AR-15s and 9mm pistols for the cost of a single "real" firearm.
 
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jax_rox said:
On the topic of guns, I was fired at on a set about a year ago - I was Focus Pulling and the four heros were shooting blanks 'past' the camera. I felt pretty safe only because there was a highly experienced armourer on set who briefed the actors, spent a lot of time with them, and ensured the safety of the entire set. If there were no armourer, I would've walked before putting myself in the firing line, regardless of whether they were even loaded.
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I'm curious, did you have a piece of plexi in front of you or at least goggles to protect against stray fragments?
 
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stef said:
I'm curious, did you have a piece of plexi in front of you or at least goggles to protect against stray fragments?
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We all had earplugs or ear muffs and safety glasses. When I say 'at', the actors were during at ~45 degree angle to the camera where I was.

Call time for us was 7:30pm, with a wrap of 3am. The armourer was on set training and briefing the actors from 4pm
 
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darty said:
if any producer bought real guns on to any set i was working on i would
turn the lights off, pack them back in the truck and drive away.

when i got home i would still invoice him for the full day.
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And what if there was a cop that had a gun on set
would that make you pack up and drive away too :weird:

is there any kind of agreement people enter into where you can sue them for just abandoning the project on a whim like that and losing all of your money since the production can't continue? I know for something like SAG if an actor did that they would probably never work again
 
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jax_rox said:
I imagine knife incidents are more common because they're seen as 'less dangerous' than a firearm - whilst most would employ an armourer and take proper procedure with a firearm, there's generally a much more lax feeling about knives. I've never worked on a set where we've had live firearms without an armourer, but I've worked on a few sets where we've had knives without anyone necessarily 'looking after the safety' of it.

On the topic of guns, I was fired at on a set about a year ago - I was Focus Pulling and the four heros were shooting blanks 'past' the camera. I felt pretty safe only because there was a highly experienced armourer on set who briefed the actors, spent a lot of time with them, and ensured the safety of the entire set. If there were no armourer, I would've walked before putting myself in the firing line, regardless of whether they were even loaded.
Click to expand...

We used a real knife 5 inches from the actor's eye :x
 
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i grew up on a farm and have been handling guns since i was 12 years old.
air rifles, 222 hornet, 22 and shot guns
i was a member of the field and game association (aussie version of the NRA)
I was a member of a trap shooting club and a member of a pistol club.
i know and understand guns.

all that being so, if you walk on my set with a real gun i will pack up and go home.

sue me for abandoning a contract if you like but i know whose side the judge would take......

i work under a working conditions contract in which i have a final say on the safety of the
cast and crew.

if the only way to keep the cast and crew safe is to remove my lights and services so be it.

if there was a cop on set i doubt if there would be any real guns bought out.

real cops have a sense of responsibility unlike the person who brings a real gun on set.
 
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If you've done something that warrants a cop on your set, you've probably not got the greatest on set practices to begin with... Just sayin ;)

Unless of course, you're shooting a promo for the cops.. Or something :P
 
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jax_rox said:
If you've done something that warrants a cop on your set, you've probably not got the greatest on set practices to begin with... Just sayin ;)

Unless of course, you're shooting a promo for the cops.. Or something :P
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There are plenty of reasonable situations to have a cop on the set

Maybe you have a road blocked off for filming
Maybe you're staging a fake kidnapping in a public area. and a bystander gets worried. Maybe you have a fake prop gun, and you want a real cop on the scene just in case someone see's an actor waving the prop gun and things escalate.

Maybe the cop is an actor himself!
 
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And then the noob asks: So, is that what you do with the orange, or whatever, tips on airsoft and other fake guns, paint them black? Is that Kosher?

I've been wondering that for a long while. Sorry to say, there was an indie film I saw not long ago in which a villain waves his fake gun and you see that fluorescent tip. Needless to say, not so good for the suspension of disbelief we want. =(
 
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i think you are being pedantic with your formulae.

the subject was guns on set and i think you know my views on that.

on the subject of safety on set generally i would rise my concerns with the 1st ad
if i was not satisfied with his/her response i would approach the producer and discuss
the situation.
if the producer was not interested in dealing with my concerns i would advise him/her
that i will pack my lights away and wrap.

i have been a gaffer for 20 years and i am good at my job and take filmmaking very seriously
and i also take the safety of the cast and crew seriously.

the reason fake guns have orange tips is so that when the cops are called, as they will be
the officer doesnt put a bullet through the chest of the person holding it.
 
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if you need a history lesson on how easy it is to get injured or killed on
a film set visit the wikipedia page on "list of film accidents".


after you read that you will understand why i have a working conditions contract.
 
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darty said:
if there was a cop on set i doubt if there would be any real guns bought out.
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Why?

darty said:
cops have a sense of responsibility unlike the person who brings a real gun on set.
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That's a generalization that doesn't seem to apply so much anymore. There are a lot of awful cops, beating the crap out of people, shooting dogs, etc. not much "sense of responsibility" there.. Personally, I'd probably be more comfortable with my own sidearm if an armed cop were on set.. :lol:


Anyway, there's clearly a cultural difference going on here. You live in a country that has banned guns for the general public (which is a shame). We do not -- though "they" continually push to do so.

While it's in everyones best interest, especially on a low/no budget project to use airsoft/replica/rubber weapons, a blanket statement that essentially says that any real gun presence makes a set unsafe is false.

I agree with stef's skilsaw comparison.
 
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