Want to eventually become a writer/directory

[JRy]

To give a little background on myself: I'm 23 years old, I've written 7 screenplays, sold one to an indie filmmaker (long story, big mistake -- I was young and naive). I absolutely love writing, but ever since I was 6 years old, watching the first Tim Burton Batman movie, I've known I wanted to be a director.

I've finally came to the point in my life where I've decided to stop dreaming and make it happen. I'm going to do whatever it takes, if it means I have to start at rock bottom and work my way up, I'm more than willing to do it.

I haven't put any of my other work "on the market" so-to-speak, since I want to at least hold onto it long enough to see if there's a chance I can direct them one day.

I have zero directing or film experience, but quite a good bit of acting and stage experience. I consider myself a good actor, but I hate appearing on camera, I'd rather be the one behind it.

I'm torn between the idea of going to film school, some people say it's worth it, some say it's better to avoid it. If it's possible to get into film without a paying for a ~$50 - 150 thousand dollar education, I'd much rather prefer that route.

I live all the way across the country from Hollywood -- I'm actually considering selling everything I own and making my move out to Hollywood.

Currently, as a profession, I work as a freelance programmer. So, I have plenty to fall back on if it takes awhile for things to get started in LA, or I'm out of work for awhile.

I've looked into becoming a production assistant, but a lot of people say that's not the route to go if you're looking to work your way up as a writer or director.

So, what is the right route? I know it's going to be a long process, but I want to one day write and direct my feature film own movies on a major distribution (don't we all).

Any help anyone can give me is more than appreciated. Thanks!

 

[clive]

So, with zero experience in the industry, you want to sell everything and move across the country?

And you guys are saying that's a good idea???

Er... No.

If you re-read this thread you'll see the main weight of advice has been... stay where you are, make sure your writing is up to industry standard... and make some films, before you even think about approaching Hollywood.

Is it realistic for an untried, unproven writer to be able to expect to get an agent in Los Angeles with no work on tape and nothing to show?

It's entirely possible for an unknown screen writer to get an agent, without having had anything produced, simply on the strength of the writing and the concept they are pitching.

What isn't possible, is to do that if you also haven't written the script to industry standards... merely having a great idea won't do it... or even a great idea and a showreel.

Most people show their faces and their work in Hollywood far too early, before they are really up to the job.

 

[Unknown Screenwriter]

I don't normally go back and reread threads because I just don't have the time and not that it's even that important here but I was actually worried that I might have given out some bad advice...

I didn't.

Neither did anyone else... LOL.

Rik pointed out right away that JRy didn't have to move out to Hollywood to start making movies... i.e., nobody is or was telling JRy to drop everything and head out to Hollywood – he was already considering that himself and I didn't read anything from anyone telling him that he SHOULD.

I think we were pretty much leaving that decision to JRy but trying to give him the best advice we could give him IF he did decide to go.

Upon my rereading, I don't think anyone said selling everything and moving to Hollywood was a good idea – in fact, he was already getting info on why he DIDN'T have to go.

I fuckin' hate Los Angeles yet I have to go there at least once a month because of the screenwriting... Sometimes more and I normally end up staying there at least a week – so no, not even as a screenwriter would you HAVE to go to Hollywood/Los Angeles in fact, if you were telling me that you wanted to take your 6 screenplays and head to Hollywood, I would have told you to absolutely NOT do that... LOL.

And, you don't even need an agent – most agents are worthless anyway when it comes to finding work for their screenwriting clients... Only the very upper echelon of screenwriting agents really try to find work for a screenwriter.

Even WITH an agent, most screenwriters with limited success are on their own trying to find work where they can... i.e., networking and grooming a contact list. You can certainly do that online and from where you currently are. In fact, I seriously doubt an agent would even talk to you at this point.

Having said that, get those screenplays up to professional snuff and start querying producers... Be ready to fly to Los Angeles at a moment's notice if a producer wants to take a meeting with you. If, as I pointed out before, you're able to get a few producers to read your stuff (have your stuff read for them), and they PASS, always ask for a referral i.e., “Do you know of another producer that might be interested in this script?” --OR-- "Can you recommend an agent?"

You should always do this because it's very likely that you'll either get an actual referral because the script is actually good and they simply passed because they don't want to do that kind of movie right now OR (as is usually the case) they go ahead and tell you that the script really isn't up to snuff.

However, if your screenplays aren't up to snuff, you really REALLY need to know that way before you ever start attempting to query producers and light years before you ever actually move to Los Angeles.

As for getting an unpaid internship...

Every month I read the UTA hotsheet and I am absolutely amazed at how many outstanding unpaid internships are available. At least 10% to 20% of them are with producers and or agents who need an assistant. If you can write a professional level screenplay AND you are a producer's assistant, the chance of you getting your stuff in that producer's hands is very high... And as an assistant, you'll very likely end up becoming friends and associates (if you're smart) with assistants of other producers. Again, if one did this and one can write a pro level screenplay, one could easily parlay an internship into one hell of a string of opportunities... In fact, I have suggested this to 7 people I know within the last several years who are in their mid to late 20s who did in fact make the decision to move to Los Angeles... None of them had any kind of experience in the industry. The only requirement they had to meet was that they could work for FREE.

2 of these people are now producers albeit lower level producers learning the ropes, 2 are still assistants because they haven't even been out there a year yet – 1 is an agent, 1 got married to a producer and the last one hightailed it back home because the industry was too tough for her.

I think you are young enough to easily hang back where you are and keep saving some bucks – make several shorts – keep learning and writing screenplays. There's absolutely nothing wrong with as much experience as you can gain.

If, on the other hand, you wake up one day and feel Hollywood calling you and you can no longer ignore the call, just be sure to be smart about it.

And it sounds like you already are.

Again, good luck!

filmy

 

[JRy]

Filmy, thank you as well! You bring up a lot of really great points, from all of the feedback here, I think I've figured out my goals:

1. Make sure I think my best screenplays are as perfect as I can make them.
2. Hire a professional writer to go over each one, and provide extensive feedback.
3. Rework the screenplays based on the feedback.
4. Keep repeating steps 1-3 until each script is considered "ready"
5. Start recording shorts -- As I said, I want to have at least 8 shorts before 2008 is over. Some shorts will be pieces from my feature length screenplays, others will be new pieces written specifically as a short.
6. Release each short online, YouTube, MySpace, Stage6, OurStage.com, Break.com (for comedy stuff) and maybe get a little marketing behind them to see if I can create a buzz.
6. Keep writing as always, keep hiring writers to critique my work when I have the extra finances
7. By the end of 2008, I should have at least 5 great screenplays (including the 3 good ones I have now).
8. I'd like to start my first feature length independent film in 2009, either out of pocket -- or through private investors.
9. With at least 5 of my best-to-date screenplays, 8 shorts and a feature length film behind me -- it should make things a bit easier for me to get noticed.
10. From here, my path completely depends on my previous success. If my little indie film was a hit, I'd have people coming to me.
Otherwise, I'd either take the route that Filmy mentioned and move out to LA and start as an unpaid intern and network like crazy -- or try to get a good agent. Or Both... I'll know when the time comes.

These are just a basic outline of my goals. I'm not expecting things to work out perfectly, but I'm going to try my hardest.


As for hiring writers to critique my work, can anyone here recommend someone? What's the average cost for a writer to look over and critique a standard 110-120 page screenplay? I imagine it's hard to find a good writer that even has the time to review anything -- With the writer's strike going on, it may be a perfect time to commission one.

 

[spinner]

I don't normally go back and reread threads because I just don't have the time and not that it's even that important here but I was actually worried that I might have given out some bad advice...

I didn't.

Neither did anyone else... LOL.

Rik pointed out right away that JRy didn't have to move out to Hollywood to start making movies... i.e., nobody is or was telling JRy to drop everything and head out to Hollywood – he was already considering that himself and I didn't read anything from anyone telling him that he SHOULD.

I think we were pretty much leaving that decision to JRy but trying to give him the best advice we could give him IF he did decide to go.

Upon my rereading, I don't think anyone said selling everything and moving to Hollywood was a good idea – in fact, he was already getting info on why he DIDN'T have to go.

I went back over the posts as well to make sure I didn't get the wrong idea. My reactions came from this:


If you look at the first 9 posts, you will find that rik did say that moving out to LA was:
"not a bad idea."

rik DID go on to say:
While "Hollywood" isn't the only place you can make movies,
it is where a lot of movies are being made. And where movies are being made,
connections can be made.

the exchange of the next few posts did not at all re-interate the fact that he needs a reel and some produced works of some type in order for an agent to give him real consideration. I reacted to what appeared to me to be the lack of "slow your roll" and I did say that my post should not be viewed as discouragement.

When you start getting all this great advice about how to do something to make all your dreams a reality, I think it can be very exciting and you want to get started right away. I know I feel that way. I think that all the information he was getting was really good and I still think that. I only felt that it was alittle premature and that it might lead to JRy putting the cart before the horse. That is what I was reacting to.

All that being said, I think that JRy has received alot of good advice here and sounds as though he's looking at all sides, which is the best piece of advice that I could give anyone.

-- spinner

 

[Unknown Screenwriter]

It's all good...

I went back over the posts as well to make sure I didn't get the wrong idea. My reactions came from this:


If you look at the first 9 posts, you will find that rik did say that moving out to LA was:
"not a bad idea."

rik DID go on to say:
While "Hollywood" isn't the only place you can make movies,
it is where a lot of movies are being made. And where movies are being made,
connections can be made.

the exchange of the next few posts did not at all re-interate the fact that he needs a reel and some produced works of some type in order for an agent to give him real consideration. I reacted to what appeared to me to be the lack of "slow your roll" and I did say that my post should not be viewed as discouragement.

When you start getting all this great advice about how to do something to make all your dreams a reality, I think it can be very exciting and you want to get started right away. I know I feel that way. I think that all the information he was getting was really good and I still think that. I only felt that it was alittle premature and that it might lead to JRy putting the cart before the horse. That is what I was reacting to.

All that being said, I think that JRy has received alot of good advice here and sounds as though he's looking at all sides, which is the best piece of advice that I could give anyone.

-- spinner

Just to clarify... My previous reply wasn't directed at anyone... I just wanted to clarify that I thought all the advice was good and that the "opposing views" weren't really that as much as they were additions to what was already being said...

Ultimately, a move like this is going to be up to the person because you never know what can set you off... One day you wake up -- somebody says just the right thing to you -- or the wrong thing -- and that's it.

Time to get the hell out of Dodge no matter how crazy it sounds and you KNOW you'll make the best of it.

Finally... I would never want to stand in the way of someone's dreams because going here or going there is too hard or too expensive. If you want something bad enough, you find a way to make things happen and do it.

I ended up putting my own dream off for over 20 years, so I know how that goes... LOL.

Ah... To be 23 again and know JUST spec of what I know now!

JRy...

A reputable script analyst will run about $500 per screenplay -- give or take a $100 but remember... Most of these people don't write and sell screenplays so while their tweaking advice isn't all that bad, many of these "consultants" have no friggin' clue what SELLS.

It's like many screenplay competitions... The screenplays that win never sell -- never get made into films. Why? Because they are very small, character driven pieces -- WRITTEN WELL -- but not a high enough concept to get a producer interested because in the end, it just isn't going to make MONEY and that's the bottom line.

Again, good luck!

filmy

 

[clive]

Spinner, I owe you an apology... I've just re-read my early posts. I thought I'd made it clear that a move to Hollywood wasn't necessary. But actually I hadn't got onto the page what I was thinking. (classic script writer's error...Doh)

I also agree with Filmy. Networking producers is much more important than finding an agent. I'm a firm believer that agents are there to negotiate deals, not for finding work. Sorry, if I was misleading earlier.

I'm not quite as busy as Filmy... but I'm not that far off

 

[directorik]

So, with zero experience in the industry, you want to sell everything and move across the country?

And you guys are saying that's a good idea???

Yep I'm saying it's a good idea.!!!

It's going to be very difficult to get a job in the business no matter what
so I see it as a good thing to be where the jobs are. And I've found that
there are opportunities for jobs and contacts in Los Angeles that aren't
found in cities where there isn't a lot of film production.

I don't believe you need experience before you move to Los Angeles, but I
do agree that you will have to work hard. Real hard.

You have experiences with classmates who didn't make it - so I see why
you would think my advice is a bit crazy. But I have experience with many
co-workers (I never went to film school) who moved out here with nothing
and have done very well.

I look at those who have made a career and figure that others can do it too.

 

[spinner]

Spinner, I owe you an apology... I've just re-read my early posts. I thought I'd made it clear that a move to Hollywood wasn't necessary. But actually I hadn't got onto the page what I was thinking. (classic script writer's error...Doh)

No apologies necessary, Clive.

You and others in this thread--and outside this thread-- give so much good advice. I know that if I have an issue or if there is something I don't know, I can always come here for insight. I can only come at things from the standpoint of a beginner, and I know that I am a pretty cautious person. I also know that some of the contributors are much further along in knowledge and experience and sometimes I can't make use of the advice....YET.

The one thing I do know for sure, all information here is given with the very best of intentions, even if the opinions are opposing. I, for one, believe all the opinions here are valid. This is a very unique community in that everything can be discussed civilly for the most part even if we don't agree.

That is why I love it here. I do hope no one ever thinks I am fighting with them, its a discussion. And tone does not translate online. Later....

-- spinner

 

[DeceptionA]

I was probably coming off too harsh, I apologize.

It just seems like everyday some kid fresh out of school with some vague interest in production calls our office looking for work. Literally, 2 or 3 times a week we'll get a call or a random resume.

And that's in Detroit.

 

[directorik]

Imagine what my tiny, little prodCo gets - based in Hollywood.

Every day, some kid fresh out of film school or right off the bus
comes here wanting to break in. I remember when I was that guy.
I had finished a couple of little super8 movies and I thought that
made me an experienced filmmaker. I wanted to write and direct
so I thought that was enough.

I moved to Los Angeles with nothing and no experience - not even
film school. I met a lot of people who wouldn't give me the time of
day - but I met a few who did. Those are the people I remember
most. The people who took this kid (me) with some vague interest
in production and
helped me find my way.

When I can, I try to take time to meet with the kids who come to
my little office - I give special attention to those who haven't gone
to film school - and I spend some time on messageboards trying
to give back a little.

I understand your harsh reply, Deception. But kids fresh out of school
are going to keep trying - just like you and I did.

 

[imsodope78]

Dude, you want to write and direct right?

Here's my two sense for what it's worth.

First off all film school is good for only a few reasons.
A) Gaining access to expensive equipment you would normally have to buy to make your own shit.
B) Gaining access to other "just starting" students who will work for free with you on their projects in order to create a reel.
C) It says to producers...."Hey, I know how to make a film." But who cares if you really do know how to make a film.

So, there are your reasons to waste 4 years and spend way too much money.

The other route which I have taken is that I decided similiar to you that I wanted to produce,write, and direct.

I got an internship with a big name female producer in the industry. I read every script I could get my hands on (including ones that have been made) and I read them. I tried to figure out what got tossed and why. I studied and volunteered to do everybody's job in the company and figured out how all of it worked.

When I had it all figured out, I got to work writing both indie projects and what I call "sell out scripts" so that I had the option of both getting signed and selling one of these things to prove my worth. I also wrote stuff that I planned on producing and directing myself "pet projects" and it's all quite simple actually.

I just started my own production company LLC out of Nevada for tax purposes. Then you network with both other indie people and A-listers. You try and get signed if you have a way in the door as it won't hurt it will only help, but if you don't get signed screw it, you have your own production company. You do need a foot in the door, trust me they will toss your shit. You are nobody to them. All you need to do is make a reel by creating a few short films on a low-budget. If you need some more funding go to angel investors and shop your stuff at film festivals. If it's good you'll get it picked up and bam your on your way. Now, they are banging down your door to sign you. All you need is a good entertainment attorney who makes his money off the money you make and makes sure you don't get in legal trouble, as you are still green. You don't pay him unless you get paid, get it?

Also there are 48 hr. film festivals and such which are great avenues for you to create your reel as a director on a low budget. All you need to be in LA or NY for is that internship if you determin that you need it. You do not have to live in LA, but it helps if you want to network. You can live in NY, South Flordia or Orlando, Las Vegas, or LA. LA being the best option for both networking and getting an internship. Do not EVER listen to the word NO! Get your foot in that door whatever it takes. I did and with no formal film education.

You just have to be dedicated and believe in yourself and never buy into the idea that you can't do it. Also, networking with others is the key. Talent as well. There are your options....plain and simple. Just decide what to do.

Hope that helped.

Amber