watch Virtue - First Short Film - Looking for Criticism

[JacketFilm12]

I made my first short film over the summer. I did not have good cameras, sound equipment, or very much lighting equipment. I simply did the best I could with what I had was good interested friends, a script I felt passionate about, and some great young to-be actors. Please let me know what you thought, please don't hold back. I know it isn't perfect obviously, but I would like to hear what I could improve on (outside technical aspects) for the next short I plan on making.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkYulEdxPz8

 

[ZackandJoshvideos]

I'm impressed! If this really is your very first short, then you got a lot more coming. For a first try at a short, you guys did very well with what you had.
Just a few things...
The first shot of the flashback, where the girl opens the door, cutting to a camera angle in front of her before she spoke her line wouldve been a good idea. Not really a big thing, just something that kinda nagged at me.
Also I thought the acting by the intern was great! But, I couldn't tell what kind of accent the man had, if any at all. Otherwise, I think the acting on his part was pretty good.
And the shot of the picture at the end, I really couldn't see it that well at all.
And I liked the story !
Overall, for a first attempt, extremely well done man. Looking forward to more.

 

[JacketFilm12]

Thank you so much! I did realize how hard it was to see the picture at the end because our shot was extremely underexposed. I may however re-edit this to attempt to include some additional scenes that weren't put in due to not-so-great acting from some other supporting roles. I believe I can alter the final shot to make the picture a bit more clearer to see.

(The picture is of the prisoner and his two daughters.)

 

[punee]

You're saying this is your first Short film...its like more than decent.

 

[jrsmithson]

You really need to work on sound on your future projects. I had to turn my heater off to hear it.

"where is jacob"-"his son is in the hospital"?? This dialogue doesn't make any sense to me.

@2:29 the guy's voice trails off and it's hard to hear him

That accent is inconsistent- stick with it or lose it, pick one.

@3:03 the reaction seems unrealistic.

The last scene is too dark, there are ways of shooting darkness without actually using a room with no lights.

I think the story is good enough, but the execution needs work. Hope this can be of use to you, good luck on your next film.

 

[JacketFilm12]

Yeah I'm thinking of re-editing a few things. I definitely noticed the accent shifts while I was shooting it. When I brought it up to the actor he didn't think he had changed it that much. It was mostly a problem of having not so experienced actors.

How did you feel about the dialogue? I was very curious if it would come off over the top seeing that shorts don't allow much time to invest in characters so you are less prompted to care about what happens to them.

 

[GabrielM]

I'm especially amazed at the location. Did you guys shoot that in an actual jail? It looks authentic (although it would make more sense in a dungeon from medieval times).

I thought the best part of your film was the dialogue. Not really the script because the story is flawed, but the dialogue was especially good. Who wrote it?

Some of the shots didn't feel filmic. I give you credit considering the small number of crew members and the limited budget, but there are inexpensive ways to make some shots more cinematic. For instance, you could have shot the actress though the jail bars, his POV. She was at least one stop overexposed, which made the lighting feel artificial. The flat angle on her also doesn't help.

Lighting and camerawork need a lot of improvement. Your actors were awful, but I understand how hard casting can be in your level. The guy would play a comic role better than a dramatic one. Were they your friends?

For a first film, you showed a lot of potential. Don't stop learning and don't stop filming.

Best,
Gabriel

 

[GabrielM]

"where is jacob"-"his son is in the hospital"?? This dialogue doesn't make any sense to me.

It made sense to me. Basically that first line establishes that the inmate was expecting someone else. And since the intern is meeting him for the first time, there's enough motivation/reason to justify the dialogue that ensues. Is that right?

 

[JacketFilm12]

I wrote it myself. It was not based on any other material, but a story I heard in the news a few years back about a man who was executed and then found out later that he in fact didn't cause a fire that killed both of his children. What did you find about the story to be flawed? I originally had a script that was 2 or 3 pages longer but I could not find the resources to gather those sets.

I built that set myself. This was a big collarboration of myself and my friend who attends University of the Arts in Philadelphia, and I found his basement especially creepy. So I found a pretty solid corner to place a bed, a toilet and a few bars to make it look authentic.

What would you reccommend for learning how to light scenes better? I chose those shots because I felt the tone to be very simple and it could be done through simple shots. I didn't wanna have a shot of her through the bars cause it felt cheesy to me. I understand it may have looked better but I didn't like it.

 

[chilipie]

If this is your first film, you should be proud of it! The dialogue worked well, but the acting (and sound quality, to a certain extent) let it down. The editing was solid, but not that adventurous, and I think the man's emotions could perhaps have been emphasised more with different cuts - but as a beginner, you've evidently already covered a lot of ground and will only get better.

The prison set looked really good but I'm not sure if the lighting setups and camera angles you choose made the most of it. While I understand how difficult it is to work with minimal crew and equipment, in some cases you could have shifted the light and/or camera a fairly small distance and achieved much more cinematic shots.

I'll post a couple of examples to show you what I mean…

What I would do: move the camera round to the right slightly, so the man's head isn't being cut off by the pillar, but leaving more room behind him than in front as you have done (intentionally or not) to show he has been cornered, so to speak. I'd kill the light on the front of the bars, leaving them in silhouette, as otherwise they take attention away from the actor. This would also leave the intern in silhouette when she enters, letting the audience ask a question, and answering them in the next shot.

If you move the intern across the screen (about a third from the right) and make her face slightly to the left (her right), the shot will seem much more natural. It's good that she stands out from the background, but she's a bit overexposed. You could move the light further away, put it on a dimmer or put something in front of the light to reduce its intensity.

I like what you did with the intern on the wide shot - it doesn't match up with the close up, but it looks good. Perhaps a combination of the two - lit from the side/behind on both but with a piece of white card/foamcore to reflect some light in the closeup would've been a good compromise. Finally… that dolly shot from the doorway was really smooth! Nice work on that.

I've rambled on a bit, but I think you've done really well for a first film and I look forward to seeing you get even better on your next project

 

[JacketFilm12]

I like what you did with the intern on the wide shot - it doesn't match up with the close up, but it looks good. Perhaps a combination of the two - lit from the side/behind on both but with a piece of white card/foamcore to reflect some light in the closeup would've been a good compromise. Finally… that dolly shot from the doorway was really smooth! Nice work on that.

Could you elaborate a little more on why the close up doesn't match the wide shot of her?

Thanks on the doorway shot comp, I actually was in marching band in high school and played the baritone so I constantly had to keep my horn at the same position a handy cam is, so I just used an effect on final cut to help smooth out a few bumps. No Dolly Required

 

[chilipie]

Could you elaborate a little more on why the close up doesn't match the wide shot of her?

Thanks on the doorway shot comp, I actually was in marching band in high school and played the baritone so I constantly had to keep my horn at the same position a handy cam is, so I just used an effect on final cut to help smooth out a few bumps. No Dolly Required

Wow, that was completely handheld?! Very impressed (and a bit jealous that I'm never that steady).

I can indeed:

You can see on that shot that she's lit from a light behind her on the right-hand side. Whereas on the close-up…

…the light is very definitely in front of her. That's not to say that lights aren't moved between shots in big productions - what looks good in a wide shot can be too dark or simply unflattering in a close-up. Changing a lighting setup or moving the position of an actor to make a shot look better (or sometimes to make it match up with the wide shot) is often called "cheating" a shot, and it's often essential, but - to my eye at least - you can't get away with a change that drastic. The fact that you've touched the lighting at all between setups puts you miles ahead of many beginners, mind

 

[JacketFilm12]

Ahhh I see what you're talking about now. I didn't notice that while shooting. We only had two lights to use (one of which broke at the very end, which didn't cause any problems) so we were constantly shifting them around to keep every shot as balanced as possible.
Thanks for the tip on the silhouettes of the bars/intern. I keep picturing that visually and it would have been a fantastic look for the beginning.

I probably wouldn't have noticed that even if I did have an adequate amount of equipment. So I appreciate that very much.

 

[guidelinefilm]

Hey man...

that particular moment at 1:50 is strong. And it's a key-moment also...
I like the lighting and the look on the actor's face (who btw looks a little like that warden in "lock up", Jordan Lund). You kept the frame close to the actors' faces.
Sometimes you cut just in the middle of a camera movement, or towards the end of a tilt or pan. Well I would suggest to just barely let the camera come to a halt, when you plan on cutting to a static shot.

But hey....I think the acting (and the direction) was great and, once again, particularly your leading man carried a lot of the weight of the story, I think!

Cheers from Bavaria
A.

 

[JacketFilm12]

Could you specify on some specific examples of when I let this happen? This may have been an issue with someone cutting too early or abrupt motions that weren't anticipated and we didn't do enough takes to make up for an error of such significance.

 

[GabrielM]

I said the story was flawed because the script doesn't feel whole, complete. You don't have acts, or plot points, or conflict. The script has too much exposition/cause and not a whole lot of consequence/effect. It has a "so what?" feeling to it. Think about it.

Although you could argue that the girl's discoveries are the plot points, remember that the guy doesn't suffer/grow because of them, so they are not twists to the main character. They are, perhaps, twists to the viewer, but not to the protagonist.

Think about his Character Arc. Is it there?

Hope this helps...

 

[GabrielM]

By the way, I didn't mention much about the story in my first post because I understand that what you have there is an exercise. I know you're still learning the basics of directing and cinematography.

Naturally, sooner or later you will have to also master techniques of storytelling, but I didn't think you were focusing on it for this first attempt, so I decided to sweep it under the rug.

But I appreciate your inquisitiveness. The sooner you master storytelling, the sooner you will succeed as a filmmaker. Good luck.

 

[M1chae1]

Hello. Without reading any of the above...

I thought it was lit pretty well for a zero budget. I liked the dramatic feel of it, even if it wasn't perfect...and the sound was good enough once I cranked my sound up. I thought the acting was community theater, as well as the script.

I don't think I get the plot, or the point, or the ending. I think the tone is there, which is a good thing to have.

I think you could use some more sound design in general. I think the music was a bit cheezy...but it did what it was meant to do.

For a first film, it's pretty good. Kudos.

 

[Cracker Funk]

This is a very good first film. Generally speaking, I think you've got a nice eye for where to put the camera. Also, the movie cuts together well. It flows well, and makes sense.

My main critique is with the screenplay. Man, this is really talky for a first film. Actually, it's really talky for any film. Not much happened, really, people just talked. And there's a whole lot of heavy-handed exposition. Next time, I'd say focus on how you can show the story, instead of telling it.

Nice work, and best of luck!

 

[JacketFilm12]

Thanks for all the advice everybody, I plan on doing another short in the upcoming months (hopefully). I think the main thing to take away from what everyone has said is to show more, you don't have to use solely dialogue to express something. I appreciate everyone's constructive criticism.

@Cracker Funk
When I wrote this I had intended for the film to be about an unusual trait that most people have who are at the end of death row, their apathy. They've accepted the fact that they are going to die for what they may or may not have done. The purpose of the intern is to have the audience's view of the prisoner. Find out what happened, and perhaps if she cares, why.

I think I realize that the effect I wanted people to have towards it may not have been fully executed. Any specific tips (storywise, shotwise or what have you) on how I could have gotten the message across better?