Using Existing Movie References in a Spec Script

[Birdman]

Hello, Fellow Indiots

I have been haunted by a screenplay I have been writing in my head for months. I drive long distances for a living and I spend most of this time working out the many screenplay details as I drive. I am not expecting this to become the latest blockbuster hit movie as much as I would simply like to get it written down and properly executed. ...I am a realist! Here are my two questions:

(Q1) My protagonist is in a scene where she is watching TV and quickly flipping through famous movies on her remote channel-by-channel. I want what she is seeing to also be seen by the audience (TV and character together or just the TV's screen). Let's say there are three very quick scenes from "Back To The Future", "Scarface", and "Rain Man". How would I communicate this within the text of my script ...and would I have to get copyright permission from each of the publishers of these three movies?

(Q2) I have seen popular films where other famous movie clips are shown within the movie. I have also heard old famous movie quotes used within a newer movie. It is not very common, but can be effective tool if crucial to a character's actions. ...What is the best way to use existing movie quotes and clips within a new spec script?

Thanks,
-Birdman

 

[Alcove Audio]

The question is do you want to produce the script yourself or do you want sell it? If you are planning on selling it just write the damned thing and let the producer(s) worry about the copyright and other legal issues. If you are planning on producing it yourself I hope that you have very deep pockets with lots and lots and lots of zeroes so you can afford the movie clips and quotes. Let's put it this way; if using "The Middle" by Frankie Eats World in a film costs (at a minimum) $100,000 imagine how much clips from "Back To The Future," "Scarface" and "Rain Man" will cost you.

 

[IndiePaul]

Alcove Audio's answered well. Here's my cents worth...

(Q1) My protagonist is in a scene where she is watching TV and quickly flipping through famous movies on her remote channel-by-channel. I want what she is seeing to also be seen by the audience (TV and character together or just the TV's screen). Let's say there are three very quick scenes from "Back To The Future", "Scarface", and "Rain Man". How would I communicate this within the text of my script ...and would I have to get copyright permission from each of the publishers of these three movies?

I would not do this. It's simply too much of a legal nightmare. You would not simply have to get permission, the studio would have to pay for the use of the clips (unless the studio owned the rights). And as Alcove Audio noted the sums demanded for use would likely be very considerable. It's a nightmare best avoided...

(Q2) I have seen popular films where other famous movie clips are shown within the movie. I have also heard old famous movie quotes used within a newer movie. It is not very common, but can be effective tool if crucial to a character's actions. ...What is the best way to use existing movie quotes and clips within a new spec script?

Actually 99% of the movies I see that show movies within them, have the talent watching black and white movies (in which the copyright has expired).

I'm not a copyright attorney but I think you'd be okay using quotes from famous movies - I don't think a particular line or two can be copyrighted.

 

[directorik]

*nevermind*

 

[Sweetie]

The question is do you want to produce the script yourself or do you want sell it? If you are planning on selling it just write the damned thing and let the producer(s) worry about the copyright and other legal issues.

Devils advocate time. I don't agree with this piece of advice. Inserting a potential issue without a care may a good reason why a producer may pass on a script, especially if the movie hinges on those scenes.

I'm not a copyright attorney but I think you'd be okay using quotes from famous movies - I don't think a particular line or two can be copyrighted.

I too am not a copyright attorney, or any attorney in fact.

I did however read some case law that when something moves into the vernacular, protection by non-competitive entities is usually unenforceable. For instance, someone using the term Xerox (meaning photocopying) in a script is something you're free to do since you're not a competing entitity with Xerox, but another photocopying company would not be able to use the term without infringing on Xerox's registered trademark.

The trick is applying that to films. Is another film a competitive entitity? You may be legally safe, though you may also be in legal hot water. I'm not aware of any legal precedents allowing or disallowing this.

I suggest contacting your E&O insurance provider to find out whether they find it to be an issue since they'll be the ones carrying the risk.

 

[Alcove Audio]

The question is do you want to produce the script yourself or do you want sell it? If you are planning on selling it just write the damned thing and let the producer(s) worry about the copyright and other legal issues.

Devils advocate time. I don't agree with this piece of advice. Inserting a potential issue without a care may a good reason why a producer may pass on a script, especially if the movie hinges on those scenes.

The real issue is whether or not the film clips are essential to the plot of the story. I'm giving Birdman the benefit of the doubt that the film clips are essential to the plot.

 

[Birdman]

The question is do you want to produce the script yourself or do you want sell it? If you are planning on selling it just write the damned thing and let the producer(s) worry about the copyright and other legal issues. If you are planning on producing it yourself I hope that you have very deep pockets with lots and lots and lots of zeroes so you can afford the movie clips and quotes. Let's put it this way; if using "The Middle" by Frankie Eats World in a film costs (at a minimum) $100,000 imagine how much clips from "Back To The Future," "Scarface" and "Rain Man" will cost you.

All good points! There is no way I would ever consider producing this as that's completely out of my league. I like your idea of just writing it down the way I think it should go and let the people with the cash work it all out. Others are pointing out that the lack of copyrighting may send up a red flag, but at the same time I'm not wanting to give up this element of my character's chemical makeup.

Thank you for your insight.
-Birdman

 

[Birdman]

Alcove Audio's answered well. Here's my cents worth...


I would not do this. It's simply too much of a legal nightmare. You would not simply have to get permission, the studio would have to pay for the use of the clips (unless the studio owned the rights). And as Alcove Audio noted the sums demanded for use would likely be very considerable. It's a nightmare best avoided...

...I agree that adding existing movie clips is one of those many "best avoided" options in a screenplay, but I see so many areas where the "best avoided" advice is given that I feel our creativity is being limited by dollar signs. If someone was writing an epic sci-fi with huge special effects coming into play, there is already millions of dollars coming into play. If a studio was willing to fork out the 7-figure cash for special effects in order to pull off an epic Sci-Fi ...wouldn't the cash needed to purchase movie clip copyrights be as equally important if it defined the main character of an epic thriller?

Actually 99% of the movies I see that show movies within them, have the talent watching black and white movies (in which the copyright has expired).

I think "Scarface" is probably one of the most quoted movies in the industry. I have seen clips from Scarface in newer movies (especially the "Say hello to my little friend!" scene. I wonder how much was paid for Wesley Sipes' use of the line "Say hello to my little friend" in the movie "Demolition Man"?

I'm not a copyright attorney but I think you'd be okay using quotes from famous movies - I don't think a particular line or two can be copyrighted.

...to bring back Wesley Snipes' use of "Say hello to my little friend" in the movie "Demolition Man", wasn't this more of a tribute to De Palma's "Scarface" character than anything? Interestingly enough, Snipes is pulling out a large weapon when he says it. He was essentially using the line in the same way that Pachino used it!

Thank you for your input.

-Birdman

P.S. I'll respond more when I get home. This is too difficult to do on an iPhone.

 

[Sweetie]

...to bring back Wesley Snipes' use of "Say hello to my little friend" in the movie "Demolition Man", wasn't this more of a tribute to De Palma's "Scarface" character than anything? Interestingly enough, Snipes is pulling out a large weapon when he says it. He was essentially using the line in the same way that Pachino used it!

Was it done by the same studio? If the owners want to reference their own material, they can.

 

[IndiePaul]

...I agree that adding existing movie clips is one of those many "best avoided" options in a screenplay, but I see so many areas where the "best avoided" advice is given that I feel our creativity is being limited by dollar signs. If someone was writing an epic sci-fi with huge special effects coming into play, there is already millions of dollars coming into play. If a studio was willing to fork out the 7-figure cash for special effects in order to pull off an epic Sci-Fi ...wouldn't the cash needed to purchase movie clip copyrights be as equally important if it defined the main character of an epic thriller?

The problem is you're not a top tier screenwriter with a solid production history of high grossing movies. Those folks could get away with it if they wanted to. But a studio may have to pay a million for use of all those clips, is it really worth it? Is it actually central to the story? That's one hell of a cost that someone has to account for.

Given you're a non-pro, I highly advise you avoid this situation. I would aim for a spec that could ideally be shot for under a million. The more millions in your potential production budget, the tougher your script will be to sell. And the market for spec scripts is incredibly tough. Lots of pros have moved to TV. Some say the screenplay spec market is all but dead - it's not dead but it's damn close.

Personally I think it's better in this market to mostly write stuff you can shot yourself (I do write a spec from time to time as well).

A lucky and highly talented soul or two does always manage to break in every year though:

Universal Buys ‘The Disciple Program’ As Mark Wahlberg Vehicle
http://www.deadline.com/2012/05/universal-buys-the-disciple-program-as-mark-wahlberg-vehicle/

 

[Birdman]

The problem is you're not a top tier screenwriter with a solid production history of high grossing movies. Those folks could get away with it if they wanted to. But a studio may have to pay a million for use of all those clips, is it really worth it? Is it actually central to the story? That's one hell of a cost that someone has to account for.

Given you're a non-pro, I highly advise you avoid this situation. I would aim for a spec that could ideally be shot for under a million. The more millions in your potential production budget, the tougher your script will be to sell. And the market for spec scripts is incredibly tough. Lots of pros have moved to TV. Some say the screenplay spec market is all but dead - it's not dead but it's damn close.

Personally I think it's better in this market to mostly write stuff you can shot yourself (I do write a spec from time to time as well).

A lucky and highly talented soul or two does always manage to break in every year though:

Universal Buys ‘The Disciple Program’ As Mark Wahlberg Vehicle
http://www.deadline.com/2012/05/universal-buys-the-disciple-program-as-mark-wahlberg-vehicle/

Actually, IP, I can't argue with anything you've written. I COULD find a way around using movie clips in my script, but I really like how they play out with respect to my character. I've come up with solutions and potential work-arounds ...but they always seem sub-par to my original thought.

Let's say you have a serial killer as a main character. He uses scenes from famous hacker/murder flicks as his method of committing his many murders. One time he mimics Freddy Kruger ...Another time it's Kevin Spacey's "John Doe" character in the movie "Se7en". Another time he mimics a James Costa/Martin Asher murder as depicted in the movie "Taking Lives". The rest of the movie is spent having other characters trying to figure out a pattern to the movies he selects in order to catch him before he can strike again.

It would be nearly impossible to pull this off without using clips from the many famous movies this character uses for his murders. Trying to do this without using the clips would make the movie seem shallow and lacking overall impact. Having the audience experiencing these scenes during the movie would also help viewers who may have missed some of the movies in question.

I'm torn between satisfying my own passion or tailoring it to what Hollywood would better accept.

BTW: This is NOT the screenplay I am working on at all! I just made this crap up for an example of the need for clip use in a screenplay.

Thanks again for your insight.

-Birdman

 

[Birdman]

*nevermind*

Why did you delete this post? I have just gotten home and wanted to copy every single example you posted! I mentioned in a previous post that I was reduced to replying via my iPhone and would continue my replies when I got home.

I can't ask you to retype what you wrote ...but I will tell you that it was excellent examples. It is a shame that it has been deleted. Others could have also used this advice.

-Birdman

 

[Birdman]

Devils advocate time. I don't agree with this piece of advice. Inserting a potential issue without a care may a good reason why a producer may pass on a script, especially if the movie hinges on those scenes.





I too am not a copyright attorney, or any attorney in fact.

I did however read some case law that when something moves into the vernacular, protection by non-competitive entities is usually unenforceable. For instance, someone using the term Xerox (meaning photocopying) in a script is something you're free to do since you're not a competing entitity with Xerox, but another photocopying company would not be able to use the term without infringing on Xerox's registered trademark.

The trick is applying that to films. Is another film a competitive entitity? You may be legally safe, though you may also be in legal hot water. I'm not aware of any legal precedents allowing or disallowing this.

I suggest contacting your E&O insurance provider to find out whether they find it to be an issue since they'll be the ones carrying the risk.

...Unfortunately with regard to my movie script, it would be like my version of a Xerox machine spitting out Xerox's. I would probably need the copyrights to pull it off.

 

[Birdman]

INT. JANE’S HOUSE - LIVING ROOM - NIGHT

Jane quickly flips through TV channels. On the screen she sees a scene
from the movie “Back to the Future”. she holds for just a moment and
switches again - a scene from “Scarface”. She holds on this a moment
longer. But changes channels again landing on the movie “Rain Man”.

or...

INT. JANE’S HOUSE - LIVING ROOM - NIGHT

Jane quickly flips through TV channels. In quick succession she sees
“Back to the Future”, “Scarface”, “Rain Man”.

If it’s essential for you to identify a specific scene in each of these movies
then you need to mention which, specific scene is essential to your story.

INT. JANE’S HOUSE - LIVING ROOM - NIGHT

Jane quickly flips through TV channels. On the screen she sees a
scene from the movie “Back to the Future” - Marty being blown
back by a huge speaker. she changes the channel; she sees the
scene in “Scarface” where Tony is washing dishes.

You do not need permission to include the scenes in your script.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman
(Q2) I have seen popular films where other famous movie clips are shown within the movie. I have also heard old famous movie quotes used within a newer movie. It is not very common, but can be effective tool if crucial to a character's actions. ...What is the best way to use existing movie quotes and clips within a new spec script?
EXT. JANE'S HOUSE - DAY

Jane’s Volvo slowly pulls into the driveway and comes to a stop.

INT. JANE’S CAR - DAY

Jane waits. She waits a little longer.

JANE
Open the pod bay doors please, Hal.

Nothing happens. Very calmly.

JANE
Nobody puts Baby in a corner.

She slams the transmission into reverse and punched the excelerator.

EXT. JANE'S HOUSE - DAY

Jane’s Volvo screeches backwards into the street.

directorik,


Well, Thank God for iPhones! I had your post left up on my iPhone's browser window and was able to copy and paste it into an email. I emailed myself your text and then was able to place it back in this thread. I'm not sure I got all of it, though. I know all about taking time to help people and not getting any response for it. ...This was valuable information for other people to use regardless of if you ever get a response.

Look, I have crazy work hours. PLEASE allow me some time to reply to your posts in the future. I am NOT one of those people who pass up on solid information! ...I WILL respond!

-Birdman

 

[ChimpPhobiaFilms]

Either take the television part out of the script, use movies that are in the public domain, or do scene recreations, while making slight changes. If you are talking about movie quotes, I don't believe that lines from films can be copy written, unless of course you are using a mass portion of a part of a script. Although it really all comes down to the distribution of the film. Tucked away in a small corner of Youtube? No problem. Film festivals, lots of views, and online film distribution? There's going to be issues.

Best of luck to you.

 

[rayw]

Either take the television part out of the script, use movies that are in the public domain...

This.

+1


Cherry pick scenes from these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_in_the_public_domain_in_the_United_States#Films
Make your life simple.

 

[Birdman]

This.

+1


Cherry pick scenes from these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_in_the_public_domain_in_the_United_States#Films
Make your life simple.

What an excellent link! ...Thank you!!

I still haven't made up my mind on whether or not to include the clips. They are technically crucial to my character's development, but that's not to say an alternative version couldn't be developed as a back up. Nobody's going to buy my script anyway, so I'm leaning towards damn well writing it the way it feels best to me. If someone does buy it ...then I'll simply consider myself just one lucky SOB ...but at least I will have written it the way it should have been done in the first place.

On the flip side, I wonder how many spec scripts are being written right now by very creative, imaginative writers who are compromising key hard-hitting, "crowd pleasing" elements of their scripts just to keep it from landing in the junk pile due to perceived potential red flags?

In the art world, if you paint a painting that is completely safe, standards-compliant and non-controversial you're lucky if your painting ends up hanging in a Holiday Inn hotel room. In the music industry, if your new tune is equally safe, clean and standards-compliant, your tune just might make it to the elevator soundtrack that's taking people up to the hotel room where the other standards-compliant artist's artwork is now hanging.

Don't you all get a little pissed that you have to tone down so much of your creativity just to keep it on the radar?



Thanks again for your input.

-Birdman

 

[rayw]

Don't you all get a little pissed that you have to tone down so much of your creativity just to keep it on the radar?

No.

A spec screenplay is a business-to-business (B2B) product, from creative screenwriter to director/producer with the equipment & know-how to get it up on screen (theoretically.)

How much money/time would you spend building a car you can't drive on the public road? That'd be retarded.
Why make a five legged blue jean pant? WTH?!
Would you try to market to WalMart your toilet paper birdhouses? Are you insane?!

No.



No.
Bring to market a product to be made into a film.

If you're TRULY "creative" you can write within given confines of budget and resources.

 

[Alcove Audio]

What you can also do is write it exactly the way that you want it, then adapt it to make it "marketable." Then you have both versions.

 

[Birdman]

No.

A spec screenplay is a business-to-business (B2B) product, from creative screenwriter to director/producer with the equipment & know-how to get it up on screen (theoretically.)

How much money/time would you spend building a car you can't drive on the public road? That'd be retarded.
Why make a five legged blue jean pant? WTH?!
Would you try to market to WalMart your toilet paper birdhouses? Are you insane?! No. No. Bring to market a product to be made into a film.


If you're TRULY "creative" you can write within given confines of budget and resources.

...I understand what you are saying, but I'm hoping that what I come up with is more relatively sound than say a "toilet paper birdhouse" As far as "marketability" goes, placing a 500 hp 8.3-litre V10 SRT10 engine from a Dodge Viper on a motorcycle frame on the surface may seem highly unmarketable ....but then how do you explain the creation of the Dodge Tomahawk ....which isn't even a street legal bike? True only nine were made ...but they sold every one of them for a whopping $.55M per bike.

My point is that if your product is cool enough ...people WILL buy it!

BTW: Your statement regarding being "Truly Creative" is a sound argument as well ...and the one I'm struggling with now. Thanks for the input!

What you can also do is write it exactly the way that you want it, then adapt it to make it "marketable." Then you have both versions.

...Yah, this is pretty much what I will end up doing. However, it's like making a R movie into a PG13 movie. Some of the overall effect will get lost in the "marketable" re-write. Thanks for the input!

-Birdman