Throw a woman a bone...

[Unknown Screenwriter]

I've been watching a lot of old movies lately via NetFlix and I've noticed that back in the 30s, 40s and a little of the 50s, the movies seemed to have much better roles for women...

Curious because everything I read and everyone I talk to says that the ticket buying demographic is changing their preferences toward male driven movies... i.e., more people want to see women in stronger roles...

I've been watching old Hollywood films with lead female roles played by Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Barbara Stanwyck, Marilyn Monroe, Katherine Hepburn, etc. and these roles simply ROCK.

When I compare these old roles to today's roles (for women), the movies of today drastically suffer by comparison and I have to wonder if this (along with simply bad screenwriting and filmmaking) has anything to do with the current box office and DVD drop off...

Recent articles in Hollywood Reporter and Variety along with several others show that current audiences definitely want strong female roles in their films...

I am seeing a very slow transition toward this end but thought I would mention it here... Seriously consider the female roles in your screenplays and films... If they're weak, consider revamping them... i.e., make them play a more central role in the story.

If you're making a female the central character, so much the better...

When was the last time you saw a real beefy role for a woman?

Consider making your antagonist a woman... This is rarely done but audiences want to see it.

filmy

 

[MrFootballMan]

Domino, although that didn't work out too well

I see where you are coming from though, and it will probably take a turn along that route soon, I think though that people would have a hard time seeing a female Jean Claude Van Damme.

It would be interesting though, compared to the old films, woman seem to have become weaker which seems unusual considering the fact they play a stronger role in modern society than they used to.

 

[Unknown Screenwriter]

Writing a real woman...

Domino, although that didn't work out too well

I see where you are coming from though, and it will probably take a turn along that route soon, I think though that people would have a hard time seeing a female Jean Claude Van Damme.

It would be interesting though, compared to the old films, woman seem to have become weaker which seems unusual considering the fact they play a stronger role in modern society than they used to.

Well, I haven't seen DOMINO so I can't speak to that film...

A huge problem I see all the time is what I feel is the writing of a REAL WOMAN. I don't claim to be able to write a real woman but that's exactly my point...

Many of the roles where the female is substituted for the male role is just exactly that...

SUBSTITUTION.

Substitution without regard to how different women are than men... You can't simply change the name of your main character to that of a woman and submit your screenplay... LOL. Although it looks like this happens quite a bit...

Women behave differently and until we write them realistically, audiences won't buy it.

filmy

 

[Lilith]

Breaking the trophy-woman trend is something on which I am working. My first feature script contains a family dyanmic in which the women are the focus. It is a family adventure film that is very fem-centric.

The second one in my pipeline (am waiting to hear on optioning the book rights) takes traditional romantic 'damsel in distress' stereotypes and turns them on their heads. The hero comes to save his love, but she'a already saved herself. This character is strong, independent and smart. Her failing is that she worries about burdening others with her troubles and doesn't seek outside help enough.

I too love those screen queens of old. Joan Crawford just ate up the camera, but I love Kate Hepburn's breezy style as well. And let's not forget Audrey Hepburn while we're at it.

Beefy female roles currently- hmm..."The Long Kiss Goodnight" was one hell of a vehicle for Geena Davis- and now she's playing the President on TV.

Off the top of my head:

"Secretary"
"The Piano"
"Proof Of Life" (I love Meg Ryan in this)
"Panic Room"
"Silence Of The Lambs"
ANY JODIE FOSTER FILM, I think
"The Hours"
"The Others"
"Dead Man Walking"
"Bull Durham" (Sarandon took a baseball movie and created an unforgettable woman in it.)
"Fifth Element" (It taught my daughter about strong women and considering that Lelu spent 1/2 the film in 'bandages' that's saying something.)
'What's Love Got To Do With It"

I know there are many more, but I can't think of them now.

 

[Adamo C.]

In fact, lead roles are such a big deal that InkTip has a separate little checkbox for "Female Protagonist" or something like that.

If that checkbox exists it must mean someone is actively searching for it...

 

[clive]

I've been watching a lot of old movies lately via NetFlix and I've noticed that back in the 30s, 40s and a little of the 50s, the movies seemed to have much better roles for women...

Curious because everything I read and everyone I talk to says that the ticket buying demographic is changing their preferences toward male driven movies... i.e., more people want to see women in stronger roles...

I've been watching old Hollywood films with lead female roles played by Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Barbara Stanwyck, Marilyn Monroe, Katherine Hepburn, etc. and these roles simply ROCK.

When I compare these old roles to today's roles (for women), the movies of today drastically suffer by comparison and I have to wonder if this (along with simply bad screenwriting and filmmaking) has anything to do with the current box office and DVD drop off...

It's not just the women's roles, Hollywood took more risk in those days and films weren't quite so genre locked. A lot of great classic films of that era would never get into production now. Can you see a studio making the Philedephia Story, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, or even the African Queen these days? It would never happen.

I do agree with you thought that there is a strong case for better roles for women within genes other than chick flicks. I think you only have to look at films like Dogville to see that talent is out there.

 

[Unknown Screenwriter]

True...

It's not just the women's roles, Hollywood took more risk in those days and films weren't quite so genre locked. A lot of great classic films of that era would never get into production now. Can you see a studio making the Philedephia Story, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, or even the African Queen these days? It would never happen.

I do agree with you thought that there is a strong case for better roles for women within genes other than chick flicks. I think you only have to look at films like Dogville to see that talent is out there.

The talent is definitely there and apparently, audiences want to see it but Hollywood is slow to bring better female roles to the screen...

But this IS changing so that's the good news...

As more and more films with strong, realistic, female characters hit the screen, the more we'll see this change...

As Lilith pointed out, there have been some decent female characters in films but it's definitely not the rule but rather, the exception... And, even then, how many of these roles contain a similarly strong male lead where both the female and male characters stand up to each other fairly well?

filmy

 

[WideShot]

I agree with this tip to a large degree. I just saw Mr. Skeffington the other day and that was a great film, in fact it breaks a stereotypical trophy main character about 1/2 way through the film, and all of the characters undergo a MAJOR arc as Fanny (Davis) undergoes a major problem in her life...

In fact, at first I wrote off whoever that guest programmer on TCM was that night but all of his films seemed to really be incredible genre or stereotype breakers, giving depth to women. Greta Garbo and Robert Montgomery in Inspiration... same deal. Fantastic.

God there were so many great films, and indeed many did break rules and did contain major arcs for both sexes.

 

[WriteumCowboy]

My current script, "Lost Causes", has a male protagonist, but a VERY strong female co-star, co-lead. It's sort of a buddy movie. I am very seriously conisdering a known female actor, but to tell you the truth, I am more inclined to offer the role to a lesser, or unknown, female actor who can nail the role and do a great job. The role is one that, once read by the casting directors, will be one that a lot of mid-thirties female actors will stand in line in order to audition for. I'm hoping it will be a real break out role for the right actor.

She's a rookie detective, but a veteran cop, so she has both the naive qualitites of a new detective, but the years of experience on the street as a good cop who earned her way up to wearing a "gold shield".

The dynamics between her and the protagonist are good and she, at times and due to his flawed character, is the strong one of the two and gives him the strength to overcome his challenges.

 

[MrFootballMan]

I do believe that an increase in stronger female leads would come if there was an exponential increase in female writers/directors.

 

[Spatula]

Would you think there are more male screenwriters than female, or is it balanced?

I know I have a lot of trouble writing roles for women- my girlfriend reads them and tells me they come off as feminine men. What could one do to "re-vamp" thier female characters?

I notice a lot of female characters end up being "stakes characters" for the male protagonists to add to thier dilemma. I'd like to be able to improve my writing of female characters- any tips on making women seem more authentic in the script, and boosting thier prescene without having to re-work the whole plot?

 

[WriteumCowboy]

I have an ace card that I play. I have a good friend, an actress in Dallas, who is also a great screenwriter on her own. I pay her to do my 3rd or 4th draft to clarify the character's voices and add spice to each scene (her forte). She loves my strong female characters but she "breathes life" into each character I write, including the feamle characters. I can make changes as I see fit after her re-writes, but so far my changes after them are very little.

As an experienced actor she appreciates the female roles and leads with a better understanding than most female (or male) writers.

Again, knowing something about being an actor is a great benefit to both the screenwriter and the Director.

RR

 

[Unknown Screenwriter]

Revamping your female character...

Would you think there are more male screenwriters than female, or is it balanced?

I know I have a lot of trouble writing roles for women- my girlfriend reads them and tells me they come off as feminine men. What could one do to "re-vamp" thier female characters?

I notice a lot of female characters end up being "stakes characters" for the male protagonists to add to thier dilemma. I'd like to be able to improve my writing of female characters- any tips on making women seem more authentic in the script, and boosting thier prescene without having to re-work the whole plot?

I wouldn't necessarily call this revamping a female character but writing a STRONG female character is not a lot different than writing a strong male character in that you need to make sure that your female lead possesses the following:

1) A strong goal. Even if, in the beginning, your female lead doesn't have a strong goal, by the end of Act 1, she should be seeking one...

2) A strong goal in and of itself is fine but the goal should be one that leads your female through rising conflict after rising conflict.

3) The riskier the better... Conflict is important but to insure that the conflict does in fact keep rising, make sure your female character takes some huge risks to reach her goal...

4) Give her a dilemma... Remember, a dilemma is a DAMNED IF YOU DO -- DAMNED IF YOU DON'T choice. Each choice sucks big time. The dilemma can create the strong goal if you like. The dilemma can create the conflict if you like... i.e., each time your female lead decides NOT to take one of the two crappy choices to resolve her dilemma, she should be taking a higher and higher risk by NOT choosing and by not choosing, even more rising conflict results.

5) Give her lots of PASSION... Your female lead's willingness to ACT and make decisions (even if they are poor) show how passionate she is about achieving her goal. I like females with a bit more passion than males... While certainly not a rule or even THE RULE, a strong female character should possess it.

6) Unusual talent and individuality... Give your female lead some special talent that separates her from the secondary characters. Maybe she's a great dancer or maybe she's the best mechanic around... Maybe she's an artist or maybe she rides motorcycles like nobody's fool... Give her a special talent that exudes her individuality.

Now separate the WOMAN from the man...

This is where I see lots of stories fail... Go read a book like MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS if you're still not understanding that basically speaking, men are physical -- women are verbal. Additionally, women are less direct than men... A man will simply ask you a question or hear EXACTLY what you say and act on that.

Women are less prone to that kind of behavior... *NOTE: I do not profess to be an expert on women but it is these basic differences that will add authenticity to your female lead or female characters...

7) Give her some indirect action... Women are less prone to direct action and are more intuitive when interacting with other people. Figure out ways for your female lead to act INDIRECTLY rather than face things head on like the usual male lead... A woman might look at you a certain way or say something to you that you might not understand immediately. Instead of a physical action, can your female lead accomplish the same thing with a simple look?

8) Up close and personal... Women like confrontation and if the confrontation turns to violence, make your female lead get right up into it.

9) Make her the strong, talkative type... This is where it can get a little dicey... Try for subtle differences when achieving different goals. Don't let your female lead be afraid to be a woman. Women are women and there's nothing you can do about it.

Do women play on the fact that they ARE women? Would this kind of knowledge or intuition be useful when writing a female lead?

Of course... Just like men know they are men... We're really no different in that we are what we are and no matter how hard we might try NOT to act our gender, it always seems to come through, doesn't it?

10) Put her IN THE ZONE... In other words, she's a woman. Take every action that you've given your female lead and analyze it for male overtones... If they exist, try to figure out how a woman would achieve the same goal within the scene... If the strategy would be different, CHANGE it to reflect your female lead's gender. If you can't figure it out ask a woman for some direction.

*NOTE: Please, no flames... Again, I do not profess to be an expert on women nor do I profess to be an expert on writing women... However, there are those subtle differences that I think can be played on when writing a female character/lead that will make for a much more authentic character...

Apparently, even female screenwriters have some problems when it comes to writing female characters... I would assume a lot of this comes from simple SECOND GUESSING of what the audience is looking for...

Well, it's pretty simple really... They're looking for AUTHENTICITY and REALISM in the thoughts and actions of all your characters...

And please... If you're a woman and can add some insight here, please feel free to share...

filmy

 

[clive]

I think you are looking for good recent examples of women's roles to use as a model for writing women into high concept genre movies then the Alien series is a good place to start. Ripley is a well written women's role where Ripley holds the central action, but in the second film in particular is driven by her maternal instincts.

Another role that was very well written for a female lead was Demi Moore's GI Jane. It would have been vey easy to defeminise her in that role, but actually it's really well observed.

However I think my favorite example would be the original French Nikia, directed by Luc Besson. There you have a complex female character driven by diverse needs that change throughout the movie. It's a superbly well rounded female character.

Ironically what I've always found is that TV is providing much better roles for women than the film industry is and I think it's worth looking at contemporary TV for your research.

 

[Spatula]

Thank you Filmy, Clive... really good examples/advice. (copy and pasted into a word doc for reference).

I agree that TV produced better female roles these days- I've actually been watching shows like Gilmore Girls, Greys Anatonmy and the like, to try and figure out the METHODS women use to solve problems.

 

[S.M Tyler]

FilmJumper
IndieTalk Screenwriting Guru

I am seeing a very slow transition toward this end but thought I would mention it here... Seriously consider the female roles in your screenplays and films... If they're weak, consider revamping them... i.e., make them play a more central role in the story.

If you're making a female the central character, so much the better...

When was the last time you saw a real beefy role for a woman?

Consider making your antagonist a woman... This is rarely done but audiences want to see it.

One of my fav films where women have strong roles is 'Antonia's Line' (also called 'Anna's Last Day' ).

It is well-worth watching and has all the elements of which you speak. Would love to know your thoughts on this film if you should happen to watch it.

---

 

[Unknown Screenwriter]

Antonia's Line

One of my fav films where women have strong roles is 'Antonia's Line' (also called 'Anna's Last Day' ).

It is well-worth watching and has all the elements of which you speak. Would love to know your thoughts on this film if you should happen to watch it.

---

I've never seen although I have heard about it... Guess I'll put it in my NetFlix queue...

Thanks!

filmy

 

[Loud Orange Cat]

Few movies made today deal with a female lead are actually any good. It's unfortunate. I'll sit down and watch any movie starring Audrey or Katharine Hepburn and know they're the true stars of the show.

Recent films like Aeon Flux seem to be gimicky, while the Kill Bill series was quite enjoyable. Still, they don't compare to the Hepburns.

In a script I'm working on now, the lead is a headstong asskicking woman.

Spoiler

Why? At the risk of sounding a bit sexist here (it comes from my father who said the exact same thing -- apologies to all the women reading this!), men enjoy seeing a woman take the intelligent, strong lead role... or to kick their ass.