Thinking about turning down studio distribution deal...

[Gratwick Films]

I recently finished my first film. A horror film entitled The Perfect House. We crowd funded the project and have gotten pretty lucky with people we've met along the way.

The success of the film and a little luck we've made connections in Hollywood that have us in direct contact with the decision makers of studios like Lionsgate and Universal. If we sell our movie we are most likely looking at a deal of 1-2 million. TOPS.

Which on the surface sounds great, but after all the people along the way get their taste there's not much left and more than likely no more coming no matter how good the film does.

I had planned on the self distribution route before we ever had the contacts so I am definitely not afraid of it. In fact I believe in it more than ever in light of Kevin Smith's speech at Sundance and Open letter at www.theredstatements.com stating his intentions with his new film.

I am thinking of spurning the distributors in favor of a planned VOD release date. Say October 1st and we spend the next 8 months doing screenings and independent film seminars/Q&A promoting the release date. Before we ever shot the film we received a ton of free press on many of the popular horror sites. With a finished project to show it should be even easier to get them on board for promoting our release.

Kevin Smith says he's determined to prove you can market with nothing more than social media, easy to say when you already used the system to create the fan base. I say it can be done by a total unknown making it real for everyone.

My question is this does anyone agree with me? And are you willing to support the cause?

 

[Kholi]

For the multi-thread readers - it's as simple as this: Make the best movie you can. Care about the characters and put your heart and soul on film. Deals and money come after you can put that on screen and more people than not see what you see in the movie.

Making a movie to make money is like trying to make food to sell as opposed to food you love cooking and eating. If you're a real chef, someone will pay you to make meals for other people. If your movies touch people, they will pay you to make movies for a bigger audience. <<I hope CF sees this!>>

Make crap but tell the world you're the best, no one will care and you'll either be a cautionary tale or fade into obscurity.

For the sake of conversation... what do you think about the idea that he still had a distribution deal despite all of that? Again, just for the sake of conversation.

Someone said to me, a while ago, that if I were doing this for money I wouldn't have done a low budget feature first out, and I wouldn't really care. I disagreed then, but now I don't... I'm not in it for the money. I think filmmakers recognize that they have to find a way to sustain, and that equals money...

But, that doesn't necessarily mean it's about the money. Just about remaining here.

I hate to add fuel to the fire, but it's already been poured on generously. The OP got a good dose of Karma, he completely humiliated himself. He's basically let the world know, via a film-making forum that he is unprofessional, delusional and quite arrogant.

This thread is a great educational piece because it teaches you exactly "how not to go about business". You never air your potential business deals out in the open. You never tell anyone your budget, especially a potential distribution company. (unless it's a pertinent selling point) You never talk trash about a distribution company, because you never know if you might need them in the future. That really goes with anyone in Hollywood, it's a small world.

It's great education.

Also agree about the budget. If it's not a selling point or a press grabber, it's not an important point to make in public. You also shouldn't talk about your budget if you aren't ready to push forward with more ideas right after the first. Can totally see getting a lot of money being important to those without anything else in the cooker... if you've got more, you're gonna be okay.

 

[knightly]

So, I've now officially watched the trailer, not my kind of movie, but the production quality looks good... reviews pan the acting and gore, but it's dressed, shot and graded pretty

 

[Cracker Funk]

I see it, sonnyboo, I see it! And, I'm in full agreement. I only make movies that I, myself, would want to watch.

Screenwriter, congrats on your sale!

 

[Wombat]

Okay, a subsidiary of Lionsgate, some other distribution company that also distributes on their label, offered a deal in May. It was for, if you can believe it, in the $200,000-$300,000 range for worldwide rights on home video and television rights (Video On Demand would have offered the identical deal they got). The imbecile counter offered $1.2 million. The guy at distribution said no way and was no longer interested in dealing with them. From there, he countered at $1 million. The reply was, when no one else wants your movie, come back to me and I'll low ball you for $10,000. At least according to my friend at Lionsgate who looked into this debacle back then.

If this were any other situation I would seriously doubt the veracity of this claim but in context it makes perfect sense.

What I find particularly gratifying about this thread is this comment he made way awhile ago:

Some of you mentioned the millions of people we wouldn't reach.....They are NOT our audience. This is not your artsy indie passion project. EVERYTHING about this film was designed to be marketable to our fan base. The 16 year old horror nut that lives online and if he likes it he's going to tell EVERYONE he knows. In fact he won't shut up about it.

In light of the very negative review at Fearnet this quote is just tasty.

 

[sonnyboo]

For the sake of conversation... what do you think about the idea that he still had a distribution deal despite all of that? Again, just for the sake of conversation.

Well, we can look to the original poster for that answer....

Your two questions are easily answered with one response. Relationships. I have already built all the relationships you all mention as a necessity.

He had an EP that set up the deal and he screwed it up with his ridiculous counter offer.

This whole thing is a classic example of FIRST TIME FEATURE FILMMAKER SYNDROME. You finish your movie, think it's the greatest thing in the world, and then cannot accept or deal with any form of reality concerning the film. Everyone goes through this phase where you think your movie IS the next Reservoir Dogs or Clerks or Paranormal Activity, except you don't have Harvey Weinstein or Steven Spielberg brokering your deals.

I wish this guy's complete and utter failure felt better, but all I feel is sadness for him, and especially his friends and family. They all see his stumble, but he still thinks he's on the rise. To come onto a board like this and spout off such predictions, only to have it sputter.... sad sad sad.

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

We told him repeatedly, for several pages that he was utterly insane and making a huge mistake, and when he realized we were right he completely lost it and turned in a psycho.

That was one of the most brutal movie reviews I have ever read.

 

[trueindie]

wow. interesting read

Also their website is on wix.

For any future filmmaker, don't put your website on wix. anybody else with a website knows wix is free with advertising. It makes it look like you don't have $4/month to spend on a website to promote your movie. doesn't look good, i think.

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

wow. interesting read

Also their website is on wix.

For any future filmmaker, don't put your website on wix. anybody else with a website knows wix is free with advertising. It makes it look like you don't have $4/month to spend on a website to promote your movie. doesn't look good, i think.

Yep, in the process of spending $1000 right now to have my production company website done by a pro graphic designer and a pro web designer. If you want to be taken seriously it doesn't hurt to look serious.

 

[Kholi]

He had an EP that set up the deal and he screwed it up with his ridiculous counter offer.

This whole thing is a classic example of FIRST TIME FEATURE FILMMAKER SYNDROME. You finish your movie, think it's the greatest thing in the world, and then cannot accept or deal with any form of reality concerning the film. Everyone goes through this phase where you think your movie IS the next Reservoir Dogs or Clerks or Paranormal Activity, except you don't have Harvey Weinstein or Steven Spielberg brokering your deals.

I've heard of the First Timers Syndrome and I cannot fathom how anyone could have this. Is it so hard to pop in your favorite feature film and see that your feature doesn't look, sound, or feel anything like that? Is it just a confidence thing?

You have to know that your first feature is going to be cringe-worthy in some areas, if not most?

Oh well... I do hope they find success.

 

[trueindie]

I've heard of the First Timers Syndrome and I cannot fathom how anyone could have this. Is it so hard to pop in your favorite feature film and see that your feature doesn't look, sound, or feel anything like that? Is it just a confidence thing?

You have to know that your first feature is going to be cringe-worthy in some areas, if not most?

Oh well... I do hope they find success.

I never heard of this syndrome, but I think I had something similar to it

Me: Wow, that was awesome. What a great story I wrote. The audience loved it.
During Q&A (Audience): Yes, yes, we loved it.
Filmmaker: Yes, but your lighting sucked
Me: I know, but did you see the audience reaction. They didn't care. They didn't bring it up during the Q&A. They loved it
Filmmaker: Yes, but your sound blew
Me: Yes, I know, but did you see the audience reaction. They loved it.
Filmmaker: Your production value is negative
Me: Yes, but the story man, the story was different. It was interesting. Not your typical hollywood story. It was entertaining and made you think. The audience loved it.
Filmmaker: The actual value of your film is less than zero.
Me: Man... F you. Did you hear that woman, who said it was the best film she saw in two years (I swear this happened. It was among the happiest I ever felt in my life). The audience doesn't care. The story is all that counts. Doesn't count for everybody, but at least some people think it's good. F you and the horse you rode in on. I'm sending it to all the festivals. They're "independent" aren't they? They're looking for good stories. Somebody will recognize my intergalactic talent. I don't NEEED production value. Go to hell. I don't want to talk to you ever again.
Filmmaker: Yes, yes, but you're delusional.
Me: Did you hear what I just said???

Of course even the festivals don't give a crap about your first time indie feature.
And this guy had a potential buyer talking to him...
I feel bad for him a little bit. I hope he gets another chance. But that means he'll have to stop marketing his old film and make a new one.

 

[Wombat]

Consider Todd Solondz. It would be utterly preposterous to claim that the man is lacking in artistic integrity and control of his films, but even his debut was sold to a major studio for distribution. In doing so, it got his name out there, and thus has allowed him to get funding for his later films (which didn't get distribution by any major studios).

The $300,000 would've covered expenses and turned a small profit (let's say as low as $10,000 for him personally), which is a miracle for a first time film. I certainly don't expect to turn a profit from my first feature, or even my real first feature after I cut my teeth on the process. It's definitely tragic, but it couldn't be cautionary without some kind of tragedy.

Still, I hope his luck turns around. There's a chance it could become a moderate success by indie standards, it's early in the game yet. And the whole ordeal might be a good lesson for the filmmakers to learn.

I personally support going the indie route, or experimenting with new methods of distribution. I really would like it to work. But the key word is experimenting.

 

[sonnyboo]

So, I've now officially watched the trailer, not my kind of movie, but the production quality looks good... reviews pan the acting and gore, but it's dressed, shot and graded pretty

I've agreed from the start that the trailer looks well shot, well edited, with a polished look. I don't think it looks like a $1-$2 million dollar deal from Lionsgate or Universal though. There are no marketable international names attached or an easily sell able premise for foreign sales.

Still, I hope his luck turns around. There's a chance it could become a moderate success by indie standards.

I think his ego and temper have a direct correlation to his "luck"......

I've heard of the First Timers Syndrome and I cannot fathom how anyone could have this.

I know I had it. I remember how invincible I felt and how great I thought my movie was. It's just a euphoria of finishing it and the politeness of the people watching it. With reviews and 3-4 months on IMDB once it gets released will take care of any ego you have.... Time and maturity allow you to look at your work and love parts, lament others, and just move forward to make a better movie every time.

 

[2001 Productions]

I know I had it. I remember how invincible I felt and how great I thought my movie was. It's just a euphoria of finishing it and the politeness of the people watching it.

Yeah, me too. Had a great contact who'd offered to help me secure distribution for my first feature. My arrogance (which was really just mismanaged exuberance) turned her off, so she politely declined to work with me and wrote me a succinct letter explaining why. 20+ years later I still keep that letter as a reminder that, yes, my shit does in fact stink.

 

[knightly]

I've always been extremely self critical, no illusions about my talent level.

 

[Kholi]

I've always been extremely self critical, no illusions about my talent level.

Same here, man. There's no worse critic out there than myself on my work. It's so easy for me to look at a movie in my collection (for the most part) and then look at what's in my timeline and go "You've got a really long way to go, dude... what were you thinking when you chose this shot?"

I guess that's why I can't imagine what the First Timers syndrome must be like.

 

[2001 Productions]

In my case it was just plain ignorance. Back then (1990) there was no internet (no indietalk ) so all a small-town hick like me knew was that I'd managed to pull off this unique and enormous feat and everybody seemed to love it -- of course, they were all friends and family. How could Hollywood possibly not beat a path to my door?!

People (like you) are much better informed today, and objective feedback is nearly instantaneous. Looking back, my first movie was a piece of crap, no two ways about it.

 

[Kholi]

In my case it was just plain ignorance. Back then (1990) there was no internet (no indietalk ) so all a small-town hick like me knew was that I'd managed to pull off this unique and enormous feat and everybody seemed to love it -- of course, they were all friends and family. How could Hollywood possibly not beat a path to my door?!

People (like you) are much better informed today, and objective feedback is nearly instantaneous. Looking back, my first movie was a piece of crap, no two ways about it.

Dude this is a conversation I've been meaning to start elsewhere, but the net's also changed how you operate as a first time filmmaker. Like you said, in 1990 there wasn't an outlet like this, so people didn't see others' first works. You probably saw number three or four, which makes others think that they were great out of the box.

It's not the case. So more people will see our first efforts and go "Damn these guys suck" and we may never get another chance unless we're sustaining on nano budgets. Then we can get better.

Such a tough industry.

P.S. We all know CRIMPS is money, though. xD

 

[2001 Productions]

You make a very good point, Kholi. I was allowed to fail and make a complete ass of myself in relative obscurity (until now, I suppose). Had the internet been around the whole world might have dumped on me.

We all know CRIMPS is money, though.

Man, I'd just be thrilled to make my investment back and pay my debts for once! Thank you, though, and I hope you're right.

 

[Cracker Funk]

I wouldn't know anything about this "First Time Feature Syndrome", because "Antihero" just so happens to be one of the greatest films of the last decade, if not of all time.

It got rejected from festival after festival because festival programmers are too small-minded to realize how revolutionary this film is. Sure, it has some pretty major audio issues, but audiences don't care about that.

I'm just waiting for my acceptance to Slamdance, then I'll sign a giant distribution contract. You'll see. You'll all see!



Jokes aside, to be honest, without mentioning any specific people, I think that some people's downfall might be attributable to a chemical imbalance, not so much a case of FTFS. And that is tragic.

 

[sonnyboo]

I wouldn't know anything about this "First Time Feature Syndrome", because "Antihero" just so happens to be one of the greatest films of the last decade, if not of all time.

But was it DISGUSTINGLY GOOD? I thought not....