Thinking about turning down studio distribution deal...

[Gratwick Films]

I recently finished my first film. A horror film entitled The Perfect House. We crowd funded the project and have gotten pretty lucky with people we've met along the way.

The success of the film and a little luck we've made connections in Hollywood that have us in direct contact with the decision makers of studios like Lionsgate and Universal. If we sell our movie we are most likely looking at a deal of 1-2 million. TOPS.

Which on the surface sounds great, but after all the people along the way get their taste there's not much left and more than likely no more coming no matter how good the film does.

I had planned on the self distribution route before we ever had the contacts so I am definitely not afraid of it. In fact I believe in it more than ever in light of Kevin Smith's speech at Sundance and Open letter at www.theredstatements.com stating his intentions with his new film.

I am thinking of spurning the distributors in favor of a planned VOD release date. Say October 1st and we spend the next 8 months doing screenings and independent film seminars/Q&A promoting the release date. Before we ever shot the film we received a ton of free press on many of the popular horror sites. With a finished project to show it should be even easier to get them on board for promoting our release.

Kevin Smith says he's determined to prove you can market with nothing more than social media, easy to say when you already used the system to create the fan base. I say it can be done by a total unknown making it real for everyone.

My question is this does anyone agree with me? And are you willing to support the cause?

 

[Kholi]

It was early this morning, that my insomnia was really running on all cylinders. I just recently signed my first distribution deal on a movie I produced, so my brain has been busy. I googled "my first distribution deal", and this thread came up, and I have to say, the original OP is a bit delusional.

A couple things I've learned, and while trying to work these deals for the past couple months, with some falling through, some promising this and that, and ultimately signing with our "best bet", I've learned a lot!

#1 Don't publicly talk trash about ANY film distribution company. Especially if your new to the game. Hollywood is a small world, and you can be shut out, word does get around. It's not a good idea to start burning bridges, nobody wants to work with the doosh bag.

#2 If it's not on paper, if it's not specifically in a contract, you shouldn't speculate that your going to get "this and that", ect ect. Don't be delusional. Not only can that kill your potential deal, your setting yourself up for lots of heartbreak and disappointment.

#3 9/10 if a distributor offers you money for your film, especially during these times, and especially if it's your first go-around, TAKE IT. Have a good lawyer who specializes in DISTRIBUTION, who has a track record, and negotiate the best you can to suit yourself and your film, but all in all, take the money. You don't have to roll-over, be firm and negotiate, hit them with a counter-offer, be tough, but in the end, take the money before they pull it.


I checked out your trailer on Youtube, the movie has 4,553 views... And I see you just self-released it for VOD preview on your facebook. In my opinion, your movie has absolutely NO BUZZ. I'm being honest, nobodies checking for your movie, it's a small piece of straw in a huge bale of hay. And I'm sure your sales will reflect that. You will be LUCKY to recoup your production budget.

You gotta really study, and be a student of marketing, psychology, the distribution business, and branding.

Can you talk more about your deal? Or throw us a trailer to your movie?

Thanks for the first-hand account, great tips.

 

[Screenwriter]

Can you talk more about your deal? Or throw us a trailer to your movie?

Thanks for the first-hand account, great tips.

Yeah no problem. I can definitely answer questions about our particular deal. Even though it's my first sale, it's amazing how much you learn in a short amount of time. It's a real roller coaster ride. I will not give out the trailer because I don't want my film to be associated with this thread or the OP's movie.

And that guy Sonny, is absolutely spot-on in his assessment. You should never underestimate the amount of business smarts it takes to put out your movie, making it is only half the battle.

 

[Wombat]

I feel like this thread should be stickied. Not as an example that self-distribution is inevitably doomed for failure, but as a cautionary tale about the dangers of hubris.

 

[sonnyboo]

I feel like this thread should be stickied. Not as an example that self-distribution is inevitably doomed for failure, but as a cautionary tale about the dangers of hubris.

I was thinking text book narcissism, but 6 of one, half a dozen of the other....

 

[knightly]

We'd love to see it, make a new thread in the screening room.

 

[Wombat]

I was thinking text book narcissism, but 6 of one, half a dozen of the other....

I mean, dang. I've got a pretty negative opinion about studios and the way the industry works, but if someone sat down and offered me enough money for my first feature to not only pay back my investors, but give them a profit and myself a small sack of loot? I'd take it in a heartbeat. Yeah, I get artistic integrity, but someone already brought up Scorsese's way. There's also people like Robert Rodriguez who just shoot with such minimal budgets that the producers rarely get in their way.

And those investors you profited? I wonder what they're considering doing with that money...

Of course, his story is dubious to begin with as you pointed out.

 

[sonnyboo]

If someone sat down and offered me enough money for my first feature to not only pay back my investors, but give them a profit and myself a small sack of loot? I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Okay, a subsidiary of Lionsgate, some other distribution company that also distributes on their label, offered a deal in May. It was for, if you can believe it, in the $200,000-$300,000 range for worldwide rights on home video and television rights (Video On Demand would have offered the identical deal they got). The imbecile counter offered $1.2 million. The guy at distribution said no way and was no longer interested in dealing with them. From there, he countered at $1 million. The reply was, when no one else wants your movie, come back to me and I'll low ball you for $10,000. At least according to my friend at Lionsgate who looked into this debacle back then.

Publicly making the goal on their websites of "1 million fans by Oct 1st" and only having under 3,000 looks absolutely terrible to distributors worldwide. It makes your movie look like no one likes it, which is kind of true. You can talk a big game to investors but with a single Google search you find the facade broken in about 2 clicks. No one will believe there is a demand or need for a movie with under 5,000 views for the trailer on YouTube and less than 3,000 fans on Facebook.

The aforementioned hubris just devalued the project by tens of thousands of dollars. This thread is the literary equivalent to that documentary OVERNIGHT.

As an FYI, talking to another distributor as I did some trailer editing for them, they were telling me how abysmal profits are currently for VIDEO ON DEMAND. They said the worldwide take for 3 TWILIGHT movies combined barely cleared $1 million for VOD. It's just not that popular.... yet.

 

[Kholi]

Holy crap... this dude turned down 200-300K??????

.... for what I saw in the trailer!????

Yeah no problem. I can definitely answer questions about our particular deal. Even though it's my first sale, it's amazing how much you learn in a short amount of time. It's a real roller coaster ride. I will not give out the trailer because I don't want my film to be associated with this thread or the OP's movie.

And that guy Sonny, is absolutely spot-on in his assessment. You should never underestimate the amount of business smarts it takes to put out your movie, making it is only half the battle.

That would be great, man. You don't have to use this thread, but like Knightly said could you start a new one with your trailer etc so we can check it out and learn from you? Or, if you don't want to give a trailer out then that's cool too. Info's kind of moot without an image, at least for me but some others might benefit.

 

[sonnyboo]

Holy crap... this dude turned down 200-300K??????
.... for what I saw in the trailer!????

No. He freakin' COUNTER OFFERED $1.2 MILLION........

 

[Kholi]

No. He freakin' COUNTER OFFERED $1.2 MILLION........

PLEASE tell me you are f*cking joking. You have THAT product, and someone offers you 200K on the low end... you have NO sales agent or any festival credentials to back your movie up... and you counter offer for five to six times as much???

.... wow... I just became depressed.

Like you, not to kick a man while he's down...but he had the cat in the bag and beaten to death...then he let it go???????

That's a DREAM number ,man.

Review here on FearNET-- read at your own risK: http://www.fearnet.com/news/reviews/b24096_movie_review_perfect_house.html

 

[sonnyboo]

He stated his shooting budget was under $40,000 and I'd estimate they spent around $75,000-$90,000 on post production for FX, sound mix, and editing.

They would have doubled their money or so.... on their first feature film in a single shot.

THEN BLEW IT like a $20 craigslist whore.

 

[Kholi]

He stated his shooting budget was under $40,000 and I'd estimate they spent around $75,000-$90,000 on post production for FX, sound mix, and editing.

They would have doubled their money or so.... on their first feature film in a single shot.

This is amazing to me. Like, mind blowing. Mind melting. He stated his budget out in the open, for one. It doesn't look like he spent that much to my eyes (but he could have)...and then a distro offers him more money than most people ever see????

How do you arrive a a mindstate where you do business like this??? It can't be all ego. on the other hand...

THEN BLEW IT like a $20 craigslist whore.

Only 20.00?...hmm....

 

[sonnyboo]

Only 20.00?...hmm....

Try the CASUAL ENCOUNTERS section, apparently (according to another thread here on IndieTalk!)

 

[Kholi]

Try the CASUAL ENCOUNTERS section, apparently (according to another thread here on IndieTalk!)

... That made me LOL.

Dude, as always, thanks for your candid info. You're a fan-freakin'-tastic resource. I am blown-the-hell-away right now. And, as much hope as this should give anyone...I actually feel a little more hopeless.

Is this what you have to produce to get a dream deal?

 

[rayw]

Review here on FearNET-- read at your own risK: http://www.fearnet.com/news/reviews/b24096_movie_review_perfect_house.html

Ouch.

I hope to never warrant such press.

"Please, God, grant me the vision to see my own sh!te and the wisdom to not show it off to everyone".

Is this what you have to produce to get a dream deal?

I thought you would be encouraged!
If cr@p like that could make someone waggle $2-300k in front of them I'm pretty sure you could produce something to entice at least twice that, right?

 

[sonnyboo]

BEWARE

Is this what you have to produce to get a dream deal?

For the multi-thread readers - it's as simple as this: Make the best movie you can. Care about the characters and put your heart and soul on film. Deals and money come after you can put that on screen and more people than not see what you see in the movie.

Making a movie to make money is like trying to make food to sell as opposed to food you love cooking and eating. If you're a real chef, someone will pay you to make meals for other people. If your movies touch people, they will pay you to make movies for a bigger audience. <<I hope CF sees this!>>

Make crap but tell the world you're the best, no one will care and you'll either be a cautionary tale or fade into obscurity.

 

[sonnyboo]

Review here on FearNET-- read at your own risK: http://www.fearnet.com/news/reviews/b24096_movie_review_perfect_house.html

Holy Mother of God! That was a terrible review!

Again, a reputable horror site dissing your movie will NOT help sales.

 

[Screenwriter]

Holy crap... this dude turned down 200-300K??????

.... for what I saw in the trailer!????


That would be great, man. You don't have to use this thread, but like Knightly said could you start a new one with your trailer etc so we can check it out and learn from you? Or, if you don't want to give a trailer out then that's cool too. Info's kind of moot without an image, at least for me but some others might benefit.

Honestly bro, I'd rather remain anonymous on this forum.

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

I'm relatively new as a regular to this forum so I didn't know of this thread until today. So I went back and read all 10 pages. I think everybody here deserves a round of applause for trying keep a fellow filmmaker from making the Mother of all Blunders. While we may not agree on everything, most everyone here is indeed, sane!

"you might be forever known as the guy who turned a 1 Million $ deal down." That's what they'll call him as they see him wandering the streets of his hometown mumbling to himself, and periodically stopping to kick himself in the ass.

It was worth dragging this out. It was on page 3 of this thread!

 

[Screenwriter]

It was worth dragging this out. It was on page 2 of this thread!

I hate to add fuel to the fire, but it's already been poured on generously. The OP got a good dose of Karma, he completely humiliated himself. He's basically let the world know, via a film-making forum that he is unprofessional, delusional and quite arrogant.

This thread is a great educational piece because it teaches you exactly "how not to go about business". You never air your potential business deals out in the open. You never tell anyone your budget, especially a potential distribution company. (unless it's a pertinent selling point) You never talk trash about a distribution company, because you never know if you might need them in the future. That really goes with anyone in Hollywood, it's a small world.