watch The Dumpster - A Short Comedy

[garylloyd]

"So what you call "wordy" is actually a four-line paragraph used to set-up everything else that follows"

Which to be frank is the amateurish way to do it. Especially with a phone call, which like VO is ALWAYS playing with fire and to be avoided unless it REALLY makes sense and is necessary.

A shot of a magazine cover with her on it would establish her as a top model.

The way the gigolo looks and how she reacts to him at the door would let us know he's a gigolo, without ever having to say it.

Now this is coming from a guy who has made films where the first line of dialogue isn't spoken until 6 minutes into the film, so I am at the other extreme, but...

You're kidding right?

And I don't know where you were told a phone call is "amateurish" but later today I'll get you a list of 20 quality films where a phone conversation is used to rely information.

(In fact, isn't that the way "Pillow Talk" opens? Nevermind)

"Wordy" is not what Skreamings meant. He got that wrong too.

He was trying to say the dialog was unnecessary not that it was verbose.

The way the gigolo looks and how she reacts to him at the door would let us know he's a gigolo, without ever having to say it.

Well, that's ridiculous and even if it were credible, the time it would have taken for him and her to transmit that message without words would have been far longer than the one sentence of dialog used:

"He charges $500 an
hour, but Tyra says he’s worth
every nickel of it."

Here's how your suggestion looks:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

She goes to the door, opens it, and standing there is Sergio, a man who looks like a gigalo. The expression on his face tells us he IS a gigalo while the expression on her face tell us he's a gigalo she's hired at $500 an hour.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Ridiculous, right?

Seriously, Gonzo, show us how you'd convey all that information just by how he looks and she looks at him.
Write it out here, I'd love to see how you pull it off.


And it's not just you. I challenge anyone to write that part of the scene better than I did while transmitting all the information I did in one short paragraph.

Dialog providing background information is staple of drama. It's allowable and when needed the writer should simply put it in and move on.

My sense is you guys don't actually understand how dialog works in drama.

Skreamings can't write dialog so he considers it a fault when he sees it in other screenplays.

This makes him a crippled writer.

 

[Dreadylocks]

Seriously, gary. You need to stop trolling this person.

What the hell did Skreamings do to you? Rape your children or something? Lay off.

 

[garylloyd]

Make the film Gary. Stop talking and actually make a film.

I'm "talking the film" and it's a conversation you can learn from, so pay attention.

And there's nothing more sickening than those little Indie slogans like "Make the film. Stop talking and actually make a film."

That's bullshit.

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

For $50 an hour I'll do some sessions with you on how to improve your screenplays Gary, I'm not into charity work.

With that I'm done, and you can go back to dealing with the people beating down your door to get you to let them produce them.

 

[Dreadylocks]

Here's how your suggestion looks:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

She goes to the door, opens it, and standing there is Sergio, a man who looks like a gigalo. The expression on his face tells us he IS a gigalo while the expression on her face tell us he's a gigalo she's hired at $500 an hour.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Ridiculous, right?

Seriously, Gonzo, show us how you'd convey all that information just by how he looks and she looks at him.
Write it out here, I'd love to see how you pull it off.

I'll take a stab at it. Please forgive formatting errors, message boards aren't suited for screenwriting.

INT. PALOMA'S APARTMENT - DAY

Paloma, a tall, thin, and gorgeous twenty-something sits on her couch. She is reading a fashion magazine, on the cover is a glamour-shot of her.

The doorbell rings. Paloma walks to the door and opens it. There is a skantily-clad young latino man looking up at her with puppy-dog eyes.

PALOMA
Sergio?

SERGIO
Si.

She looks him up and down.

PALOMA
How much?

SERGIO
Que?

Paloma rubs her thumb and forefingers together in the space between her and Sergio.

PALOMA
(slowly)
How Much?

Sergio hold up his hand as if to wave.

SERGIO
(through a thick accent)
Five hunred. Una hora.

-----------------------------------------------

There you go. That's how I would do it.

 

[garylloyd]

Seriously, gary. You need to stop trolling this person.

What the hell did Skreamings do to you? Rape your children or something? Lay off.

No, these conversations need to go down.

This guy is living in a fantasy world and that's because no one has dared critique his work.

His film gets things wrong and I've been more than generous --and specific! -- as to exactly what.


It's the most sickening thing in the world watching you so-called Indie filmmakers fawn over each other. Never, ever do you tell a person his work is dreck. It's like this is a therapy group, not a forum.

Grow a pair and start critiquing each other -- and don't hold back either!

The way it stands now is this bullshit agreement that if you give me a nice critique I'll give you a nice critique.

 

[LasVegasIRA]

I read your script, Gary. I'm not impressed either.

As stated above, everything you have in that initial paragraph spoken by Paloma could be shown and easily explained once the Sergio character is introduced. If you want to show that Palmoa treats Maria poorly, you could have had her doing and saying mean things to her as she was getting ready for Sergio to come over.

I'm not saying the scripts are bad (I read the second one too,) but they're hardly at the level of genius you claim them to be. They read at best like absurdist theater (think Christopher Durang) and at worst like a second rate sitcom.

Not that that's a bad thing. There's a true place for the type of comedy you're writing. But you need to leave room for other tastes that are different from your own...

 

[Skreamings]

Skreamings can't write dialog so he considers it a fault when he sees it in other screenplays.

This makes him a crippled writer.

Not sure what you are basing this on. There is very little dialogue in my film, yet it tells the story.

Again, Gary, MAKE THE FILM! You haven't answered us why you haven't made it or if you are going to.

And I find it interesting how you have completely avoided the Nicholl's Fellowship Facebook page fiasco that you were the sole cause of.

 

[Skreamings]

Plenty of people have dared to critique my work. You however are the only person who has been a dick about it. I've stated multiple times that my film has issues, but at least I have made a film to have issues with. I'm still waiting to see the great Gary Lloyd opus that will make us all weep at his brilliance.

The only person living in a fantasy world is Gary Lloyd. I'm guess there might even be some padded walls and daily meds in that world.

 

[garylloyd]

I read your script, Gary. I'm not impressed either.

As stated above, everything you have in that initial paragraph spoken by Paloma could be shown and easily explained once the Sergio character is introduced. If you want to show that Palmoa treats Maria poorly, you could have had her doing and saying mean things to her as she was getting ready for Sergio to come over.

I'm not saying the scripts are bad (I read the second one too,) but they're hardly at the level of genius you claim them to be. They read at best like absurdist theater (think Christopher Durang) and at worst like a second rate sitcom.

Not that that's a bad thing. There's a true place for the type of comedy you're writing. But you need to leave room for other tastes that are different from your own...

Well, you're wrong, pal, and if you believe the opening scene can be improved, let's see you do it.

And this makes no sense at all:

everything you have in that initial paragraph spoken by Paloma could be shown and easily explained once the Sergio character is introduced.

Show us how you do this. Show us how you easily explain the Sergio character with less words than I do.

I'd love to see that.

 

[LasVegasIRA]

Well, you're wrong, pal, and if you believe the opening scene can be improved, let's see you do it.

First of all, we're hardly pals.

Second, I believe Dreadylocks showed quite effectively that it could be done a few posts back. Have you looked at it?

 

[Skreamings]

I actually should thank you Gary. This whole flame war has drawn in a lot of attention from people on these forums which in turn has caused them to wonder what all the hubbub is. That has equated to more views for me on Vimeo.

So thank you. Keep the views coming.

And maybe you can tell us when you are going to make "Diva" into a film.

And while you are at it maybe you could tell us what happened on the Nicholl's Fellowship page on FB.

 

[Skreamings]

First of all, we're hardly pals.

Second, I believe Dreadylocks showed quite effectively that it could be done a few posts back. Have you looked at it?

LasVegasIRA is right. Dreadylocks scene is much better. I'm actually interested in seeing more of how that scene plays out.

 

[garylloyd]

Plenty of people have dared to critique my work. You however are the only person who has been a dick about it. I've stated multiple times that my film has issues, but at least I have made a film to have issues with. I'm still waiting to see the great Gary Lloyd opus that will make us all weep at his brilliance.

The only person living in a fantasy world is Gary Lloyd. I'm guess there might even be some padded walls and daily meds in that world.

You're starting to piss me off.

I did all that work to show you how to improve your short and you call me a dick.

Right out the gate I told you it was too linear, that the complications you have are anemic. I illustrated how Chaplin would have handled the material -- I did this with detailed specifics. I told you how exactly how to put humor in the short because it was clear to me you don't know how. I then told you how a subplot or two would improve the work immensely.

I did all these things and you hate me for it.

Meanwhile, you love the people who fawn over you and tell you how great your short is -- and of course you'll return the favor and fawn over them. And you would have fawned over me and told me how great my short is had I fawned over you.

But just to set the record straight, exactly what did the other critiques say?

 

[LasVegasIRA]

Gary, I'm truly interested to hear what you thought of Dreadylocks version of your opening scene. Have you read it? Do you not think it works?

 

[Skreamings]

You are a master of deflection. Bravo.

When are you going to make your film? Are you going to make your film?

What did the Nicholl's readers have to say about your script that set you off over there?

 

[garylloyd]

I'll take a stab at it. Please forgive formatting errors, message boards aren't suited for screenwriting.

INT. PALOMA'S APARTMENT - DAY

Paloma, a tall, thin, and gorgeous twenty-something sits on her couch. She is reading a fashion magazine, on the cover is a glamour-shot of her.

The doorbell rings. Paloma walks to the door and opens it. There is a skantily-clad young latino man looking up at her with puppy-dog eyes.

PALOMA
Sergio?

SERGIO
Si.

She looks him up and down.

PALOMA
How much?

SERGIO
Que?

Paloma rubs her thumb and forefingers together in the space between her and Sergio.

PALOMA
(slowly)
How Much?

Sergio hold up his hand as if to wave.

SERGIO
(through a thick accent)
Five hunred. Una hora.

-----------------------------------------------

There you go. That's how I would do it.

And you would have us believe the audience gets from that :

1. Sergio is a gigolo.

2. Paloma has hired him for a session?

How does the audience get this from your scene -- through telepathy?

Meanwhile, my scene simply tells them and moves on:

PALOMA (ON PHONE)
He’ll be here any minute now. His
name is Sergio. He charges $500 an
hour, but Tyra says he’s worth
every nickel of it. Oh, and here’s
the cute part: He doesn’t speak a
word of English -- hehehehe...
isn’t that fun?

---------------------------------------------------------------



Your scene is not an improvement; it's a complete fail. In your scene Sergio could be her drug pusher, landlord, auto mechanic. And the shot of her on the Glamor Magazine might not work at all if the photography isn't perfect. Moreover, it simply doesn't tell the key detals (friends with Tyra) my short paragraph tells.

Look, you're trying to make a case for dialog NOT containing establishing or background information and that's a foolish case to try and make. Background dialog is a staple of drama -- the only rule is that it be done concisely.

Your scene is silly. It doesn't add clarity -- it removes clarity. It takes the adage "show don't tell" and misuses it. There are times in drama where telling is the best way to transmit key information.

Your scene also cuts the glimpse of Paloma's character we get from her opening dialog.

You eschew opening dialog for no other reason than you know how to type.

But let's move on...

What else would you cut or rearrange?

 

[Skreamings]

I'd like to know when you are going to make this film. As it is written. Because obviously you aren't going to change a word.

Are you going to make it?

And to be honest, when she said "Tyra" I had no freaking idea she meant Tyra Banks.

 

[LasVegasIRA]

How does the audience get this from your scene -- through telepathy?

Meanwhile, my scene simply tells them and moves on:

Seriously?? The FIRST and ONLY true rule of filmmaking: Show. Don't tell.

You broke that rule in your first line of dialogue.

And we "get" what's happening because of how Sergio is dressed, his body language, and the fact that he's "Five hunred. Una hora."

Now, I understand that as a writer, you can't write body language. BUT, that's that JOB of the filmmaker, to SHOW these types of things. The audience will "get" it because the director will SHOW on screen what is needed for the point across. You don't direct on the page.

You talk about wanting directors to use scripts like yours instead of writing themselves. Well, you better get used to directors making substantial changes to your stories so that they're more suited to being filmed as a movie.

 

[Dreadylocks]

I was going off of your request to write this

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

She goes to the door, opens it, and standing there is Sergio, a man who looks like a gigalo. The expression on his face tells us he IS a gigalo while the expression on her face tell us he's a gigalo she's hired at $500 an hour.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't read the rest of your script and I don't care to.

I wouldn't normally be this mean, but since you've said you don't want pats on the back...

Are you really that thick-headed that you can't tell he's a hooker or that he doesn't speak english? If so I don't know how you watch any movies. They must really confuse you.

I'm done with your trolling. Go back to your bridge.