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Tearing Things Loose

Adeimantus

Adeimantus

I would be honored and eternally grateful for feedback on a feature script:

Title: TEARING THINGS LOOSE
Genre: Historical Drama
Pages: 120

Synopsis: At the turn of the century in the American west, young labor unions face off against the bosses of giant corporations in a violent fight for the soul of America. Radical union leader, "Big Bill" Haywood leads the way until he is charged with blowing up the Governor of Idaho, and a young, relatively unknown lawyer by the name of Clarence Darrow wages a desperate struggle to save Haywood from the gallows.

No rush. If/when you can get around to it, a couple comments would be very much appreciated.

http://www.politikonzoon.com/TearingThingsLoose.pdf

Thanks.

-Charles
 
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I just started reading this, and it's written beautifully. But, I'm immediately struck by this strangeness.

"Frances waves from a picture window" then two sentences later "Shatters all the windows in the house". Yet, Frances is not hurt. Now it could just be that Frances upon seeing her father stepped away from the window and was going to open the door. But, you put her at the window and didn't remove her.

It's these type of contradictions that are just too common in screenplays.

Also, why doesn't Belle try to get the child away? Tell her to go get help or something. He's bleeding from the nose and eyes. The lower half of his body is gone. This is not the place for a kid. I know that it's a different time, but even in old westerns it's "get the kid outta here".

I'm only in the beginning, but do lines like: "Why don't you take me in the house? I'm a dead man. It hurts. Turn me on my stomach? Papa we can't move you. Help is coming". Do they mean anything? If not, they're not necessary. You have the action, and the important line (at least I'm guessing it's important) What does it all mean?

Imagine if this happened in real life:

Frances runs from the house SCREAMING. Not far behind her is BELLE who also SCREAMS.

They reach Governor and Belle holds Frances back.

CF WAYNE runs from his house.

BELLE: (to Frances) Go get a blanket.

FRANCES: No mama.

BELLE: Go now, go quick.

CF WAYNE: What the hell happened?

BELLE: (to CF)Get help, please get help.

CF runs down the block and out of sight.

Belle knells next to her husband. She lifts his head.

BELLE: Dear Jesus, Papa.

GOVERNOR: (not realizing what's happened) What's the matter mother? What does it all mean?

Frances comes with the blanket, which they put over the Governor.

Granted this is not perfect. But, it rings truer because this is what people do. Get the kids out of there, get help. Unless those other pieces of dialogue have meaning later, they're just prolonging the scene unnecessarily. Unless Frances has to be there, then she shouldn't.

I'm just writing this as I read. Till you say "Stop you ass, you don't know what the hell you're talking about."
 
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ussinners said:
"Frances waves from a picture window" then two sentences later "Shatters all the windows in the house". Yet, Frances is not hurt. Now it could just be that Frances upon seeing her father stepped away from the window and was going to open the door. But, you put her at the window and didn't remove her.

It's these type of contradictions that are just too common in screenplays."
Click to expand...

Are these types of "contradictions" really that too common in screenplays? Or, are you just digging WAY TOO DEEP to search for the most minor, inconsequential "flaws"?

Using your logic, the following lines, from the same scene, should also be flagged:

[/QUOTE]C. F. Wayne leans down and puts his arms under Frank, but
can’t lift him.

C. F. WAYNE
I’ll get some help.

Wayne gets up and runs down the street.[/QUOTE]

Wait a minute! He never pulled his arms from around him! Yet, he runs down the street, with Frank in his arms? That doesn't make sense. This screenplay is seriously flawed.
 
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Cracker Funk said:
Are these types of "contradictions" really that too common in screenplays? Or, are you just digging WAY TOO DEEP to search for the most minor, inconsequential "flaws"?

Using your logic, the following lines, from the same scene, should also be flagged:
Click to expand...
C. F. Wayne leans down and puts his arms under Frank, but
can’t lift him.

C. F. WAYNE
I’ll get some help.

Wayne gets up and runs down the street.[/QUOTE]

Wait a minute! He never pulled his arms from around him! Yet, he runs down the street, with Frank in his arms? That doesn't make sense. This screenplay is seriously flawed.[/QUOTE]

What these types of contradictions show is that the writer is forcing the action, instead of the characters living the action. There's a lot in the first scene that shows this. But, the girl by the window is the biggest.

If it seems like nit-picking, go scene from scene in most unsold scripts, and you'll find the same things. It's the difference between wanting to improve and just saying it doesn't matter. Well it does.
 
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Buddy, ussinners, droowl, crackerfunk:

All good points. I appreciate all and any feedback.

Here's my dilemma: The scene is pretty accurate based on the historical record. The only thing that's really changed is that Steunenberg actually died in his house some hours later. Frances, his daughter, was in the house near the windows but wasn't injured when they shattered. She was also the first one at his side and stayed there until he was brought into the house. Based on family letters, the dialogue is pretty close to what was said, although not necessarily within the compacted time-frame I present. I edited it for brevity and to accommodate the restrictions of film medium. C. F. Wayne is a real person and neighbor who tried to lift him and couldn't, etc.

As I understand my role as a screenwriter in this situation, it's to first tell a good story, and only SECONDARILY to stay as close to the historical facts as I can. I've changed things where I felt it was absolutely required by the dictates of classical narrative, but still pushed as hard as I could to be accurate and to reflect the SPIRIT of the times and of the characters and of the incidents they lived through.

Any writer who attempts to dramatize a true historical incident had better not hide behind the excuse "but that's what really happened" to defend sloppy narrative film-making.

What I'm trying to say is that while I hope you recognize the difficulties I faced--that often I made choices in the name of historical accuracy--I also hope you won't refrain from rapping my knuckles if I fail in my job as a story teller.

Thanks again for your comments so far. I appreciate them very much.



-Charles




Crackerfunk: What the hell you doin' messin' around in my thread? Get yo' poverty-stricken ass back to work. That script ain't gonna revise its damned self, you know.
 
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Adeimantus said:
Buddy, ussinners, droowl, crackerfunk:

All good points. I appreciate all and any feedback.

Here's my dilemma: The scene is pretty accurate based on the historical record. The only thing that's really changed is that Steunenberg actually died in his house some hours later. Frances, his daughter, was in the house near the windows but wasn't injured when they shattered. She was also the first one at his side and stayed there until he was brought into the house. Based on family letters, the dialogue is pretty close to what was said, although not necessarily within the compacted time-frame I present. I edited it for brevity and to accommodate the restrictions of film medium. C. F. Wayne is a real person and neighbor who tried to lift him and couldn't, etc.

As I understand my role as a screenwriter in this situation, it's to first tell a good story, and only SECONDARILY to stay as close to the historical facts as I can. I've changed things where I felt it was absolutely required by the dictates of classical narrative, but still pushed as hard as I could to be accurate and to reflect the SPIRIT of the times and of the characters and of the incidents they lived through.

What I'm trying to say is that while I hope you recognize the difficulties I faced, I also hope you won't refrain from rapping my knuckles if I fail in my job as a story teller.

Thanks again for your comments so far. I appreciate them very much.



-Charles




Crackerfunk: What the hell you doin' messin' around in my thread? Get yo' poverty-stricken ass back to work. That script ain't gonna revise its damned self, you know.
Click to expand...

I was actually going to put at the bottom of my post "If this scene is based on fact". Wow, that's surprisingly bizarre.

I will just say this, and I believe it; If you are a known screenwriter with credits, you can get away with a lot more then a novice trying to break in. While this might be factually correct, is it dramatically correct?

It's great you want to use things the people actually said, but it needs to be done sparingly. Some of the worst movies I've seen (The Lost comes to mind) are movies made from novels, and the screenwriter said "I used most of the dialogue straight from the book", which just added to how bad this movie was. Real life dialogue/book dialogue/ theatre dialogue and screenplay dialogue are all completely different animals.
 
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Sorry it might going away from the topic , Cleopatra ia played by a well known white actor,
while it is a well known fact that she is a black beauty.

I would like to know whether historical facts is only for the novice .
padma
 
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ussinners,

It's a perennial problem for historical screenplays. One good example from the recent film "A Beautiful Mind" is where screenwriter Akiva Goldsman combined the first wife and the second wife of the main character, John Nash, into one person. It was just too complicated to do otherwise, to keep the narrative moving along strongly, and keep the movie under two hours. These are the kinds of decisions one has to make.

Padnar, I'm not sure I understand your question. Reality is almost never a neatly-tied story that can be portrayed on the screen as a drama in the timeframe allowed, and if your goal is absolute and unwavering loyalty to "just the facts, m'am," then you're better off doing a documentary.

-Charles
 
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Written pretty damn well. The first thing that comes to mind is how long your paragraphs are. With five line paragraphs rather than three-line, my eye is straying by page 4, even though it's all nice and neatly written.
It may be 120 pages, but it's probably more like 140 worth of material.
Brb, reading more.
 
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Ccolebrook said:
Written pretty damn well. The first thing that comes to mind is how long your paragraphs are. With five line paragraphs rather than three-line, my eye is straying by page 4, even though it's all nice and neatly written.
It may be 120 pages, but it's probably more like 140 worth of material.
Brb, reading more.
Click to expand...

Hi, Ccolebrook. Agreed that it's dense. This was my first feature script, and I've subsequently moved to three-line action paragraphs for the most part. I appreciate you reading!

I had Lynne Pembroke of Coverscript.com do a cover on it, and she liked it a lot. Problem is, she said, this is a big-budget script. Period-piece, explosions, large crowds, multiple locations, trains, yadda yadda.... and, since I'm a "no-name" in the biz, nobody's gonna risk the big $$$$$ on it. She suggested I put it away in a drawer somewhere until I'm rich and famous. Uh huh.

One of my biggest concerns is the length of the courtroom scenes in the second half. I love Darrow and I think he adds a lot to the story, but I think the direct examination and cross-examination of Harry Orchard can and probably should be cut significantly. Any feedback on that would be appreciated.

Cheers!

-Charles
 
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Was raping and pillaging on Google and, serendipitously, discovered this script was a Finalist in the 2010 New American Screenplay Contest: http://www.newamericanscreenplaycontest.com/

Bloody bastards never notified me! (fairly impressive list of judges, too).

Can't seem to find the Winner's page, so I assume I got shut out.

I've been busy on Twitter bugging Alec Baldwin into reading it. He'd make the PERFECT Haywood and would cap a splendid film career. So far, he's ignoring me. Guess I need to get more subtle...

-Charles
 
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I love historical drama. This kinda reminds me of There will be blood. I like your dialogue because it does maintain that historical venacular. Did you do a lot of research for this story?
 
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