Suggestions on a beginner camera

H

Helena Teixeira

I'm sixteen years old, I'm going to start studying multimedia and I hope to enroll in a film school sometime. I don't have that much money to spend on a camcorder so I've been saving as much as I can to get one. The one I need to get now needs to be good enough to shoot independent short films looking as professional as possible.
I had my eyes on the Sony NEX-VG10E, but I came to the conclusion that the camera has many flaws. I would like to hear your opinion on whether I should spend my money on the Sony NEX-VG10E or wait until I have enough cash to buy a more professional camera such as the Sony HDR-AX2000.
Can you suggest any good cameras for an aspiring filmmaker on a low budget?
I want to make an effective and worthwhile buy.
 
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Nate North said:
Why would you put a 4000 dollar lens on such a camera? I guess it's possible, I mean, I never thought to buy a honda civic and paint flames on it and put in nitrous, but there are plenty of people that do.
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I was on an AF-100 shoot and ended up using my GH2 as a second angle for a few shots. The actual results turned out pretty great. It's not something I would do for every day shooting, though.
 
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Helena Teixeira said:
I'm sixteen years old, I'm going to start studying multimedia and I hope to enroll in a film school sometime. I don't have that much money to spend on a camcorder so I've been saving as much as I can to get one. The one I need to get now needs to be good enough to shoot independent short films looking as professional as possible.
I had my eyes on the Sony NEX-VG10E, but I came to the conclusion that the camera has many flaws. I would like to hear your opinion on whether I should spend my money on the Sony NEX-VG10E or wait until I have enough cash to buy a more professional camera such as the Sony HDR-AX2000.
Can you suggest any good cameras for an aspiring filmmaker on a low budget?
I want to make an effective and worthwhile buy.
Click to expand...
As a multimedia student
+ film school hopeful
+ not much money/low budget
+ shoot short films
+ professional as possible
= lotta homework!

First, whatever tech is available now will be superseded by the time you (maybe) get to film school.
Second, if/when you get to film school odds are that they don't expect you to show up first day of class with 100% pro equipment and a portfolio show reel. Not that they EXPECT you to show up empty headed or handed, but... just don't be in such a rush.
Third, learn to do as much as possible with as little as possible.
Fourth, don't be afraid of tech already two to four years old.

The basics I looked for were:
- manual focus (focus rings are super cool, digital selection forces that "creative solutions" element).
- manual aperture
- (bonus) manual shutter speed (FWIW, what I have now only prioritizes one of these three at a time, so I gotta use some figuring out how manipulate other variables to get the effect I want or want to avoid).
- SD/SDHD if possible, miniDV if you have to
- 1.8f aperture (I noted the SONY NEX-VG10E only goes down to 3.5f. Can't drill out a bigger hole to let in more light!)
- the biggest CMOS sensor you can find
- up to 1080p, preferable, 1080i, if you have to.
- there is no possible way to collect super fantastic audio onto any consumer/prosumer camcorder that I've run across. The problem with the on board mics is that they are fine for only a meter out, external shotguns like the VideoMic plugged into the camcorder's miniplug jacks allows some extra maneuverability as well as unfortunately some extra cracksNpops. Best bet, to go the pre-pro route, is bite the bullet and resign yourself to eventually getting separate audio equipment. At that point you're looking at a dedicated two man operation for camera and audio.
As a 16yo student... screwit. Just learn to do the best you can with a camcorder and onboard mic. For really.

Frankly, some of these DSLRs out there actually seem pretty cool.
There really isn't a one-size-fits-all obvious basic camera.
Seems like you can easily find six or seven out ten things you want in a single camera. Mostly, though, is you need manual controls.
Everything else is gravy after manual focus and aperture + 1080p or i.

And I'd try to keep your total package, including a nice fluid head tripod, case, extra batteries, et al (minus NLE-worthy computer!) well under $2,000 US. (A >$2k camera isn't going to magically make your stories any better, and story creation is by large the weakest point of most everyone's product).
No offense, at 16yo... maintaining passion/interest is considerably less likely than shifting/evolving interest over the next few years. I wouldn't bust the bank, but I respect you need something greater than point-and-shoot mass consumer pablum as well.
 
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Nate North said:
So really it depends on what kind of filmmakers you guys want to be
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The kind of filmmaker that makes films even if they own a camera with many limitations. I've worked with the RED before and I'd love to do so again on my own projects, but it's simply not practical economically, nor is it the best choice for lots of the things I've worked on. I'm all for camera geekery (and I understand that the RED is a business investment for you), but when it comes down to it I'd much rather make things than bogged down in technical minutiae. Moiré, low colour sampling and high compression don't stop you from making a bloody good film.

Nate North said:
The reason is because you can mount Cine lenses on the AF100. Still lenses skip to focus stops instead of being smooth.
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I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. It is possible to mount cine lenses on DSLRs (Zeiss Compact Primes, any PL mount lens after a (permanent) mount conversion) and still lenses do not skip to focus stops (you might be thinking of aperture stops). Most stills lenses lack accurate distance markings - especially on modern, autofocus lenses - but it is perfectly possible to smoothly pull focus and I've done so many times before.
 
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I was thinking of aperture stops, sorry

Very interesting to know you can pull focus effectively on still lenses.

Tech geekery, aloof attitude, desire to bypass story with high end visuals

You guys literally have me completely wrong. Just totally and absolutely wrong. I wouldn't bring it up, because this forum isn't about me, but this is like the 75th time someone has inferred one of these.

So I will explain.

You remember when the switchover to HD broadcast happened? Everyone in the world ran out to the store to see the miracle of HD tv. Movies would be better, tv would be smarter, HD would change everything.

So you got to the store, and it kind of looked the same. I mean, it was sharper and clearer, but didn't really change how I saw content. Where's my big payoff? I go home and think, well ok, that's a mild improvement.

I didn't get that big jolt I was expecting till months later. And it didn't happen when I switched from SD to HD, it happened when I tried to watch SD after HD. After staring at HD footage for months, SD channels just looked blurry and weak. Harder to watch SD now.

As time went on I studied long and hard about film and lenses, the looks they produced, the feel they gave a story. At the beginning of this period, I could look at a film like Payback, or Fantastic 4, and see that it was better in some way, but I couldn't really identify it.

As I stared and stared at the looks of a thousand movies, the Hollywood superlayer became more and more transparent to me. The movement of the grain, the depth of the color, the smoothness of the image, the moving, living, almost electric vibrance of a true modern movie camera. You can see it the best in 1080p blu rays. Once your mid fully adjusts to it, you can see it clearly.

When I look at 5d footage, it looks sterile to me. lifeless and plain. The resolution is there, the color is there, all the checklist items. But I've watched hundreds of these videos, and I've never seen a clip that I thought belonged in a feature film.

People out there that are buying 100,000 dollar cameras are not "too stupid to understand that they could do it with a 5d" They are experienced often jaded pros like myself that have simply "adjusted up tolerance" like in my HD SD example, until they can no longer recieve endorphins from highly compressed, or auto-corrected footage.

You have to enjoy your work, this job is too hard to be worth it if not.
 
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Nate: To clarify my first post, I didn't mean to shoot top films which are shown in theaters on DSLRs.

I meant that knowing how to tell a good story with picture and sound is more important right now for him than to look for the top quality camera to learn from scratch on.

Many top directors started on Super-8...
 
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ROC said:
Nate: To clarify my first post, I didn't mean to shoot top films which are shown in theaters on DSLRs.

I meant that knowing how to tell a good story with picture and sound is more important right now for him than to look for the top quality camera to learn from scratch on.

Many top directors started on Super-8...
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I agree completely, sorry if it seemed I was insinuating otherwise
 
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Glad to see fellow yougons here! I'm 14. Theres a bunch. Plenty of simple HD material out there, flip, zi8, playsport.... These cameras are great, but they are missing a key component to professional looking footage, and that is depth of field. DOP gives you freedom to chose what is in focus and what is not, making the footage look very professional. Unfortunetely, one of the cheapest cameras with this feature is the Canon T2i, which is a great DSLR for photos and HD video. Price range close to 700 bucks on amazon for the body only. You might not be able to afford it yet, but just wait and save up, you wont be sorry. You will be sorry with a cheap HD camera and youll wonder why you didn't wait. But you can start of on anything, it doesn't matter the camera itslef, just what you do with the camera.
 
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I know how hard it is to tell a good story. I fully understand that for anyone to become a good filmmaker it isn't enough to have a good camera. If your story is bad but the quality of image is good it's still a crappy film.
Quality of image and audio are obviously important on any film.
Since I'm buying a camera because my old one doesn't work anymore, I thought about buying a good one so I can get best quality work.


rayw said:
I wouldn't bust the bank, but I respect you need something greater than point-and-shoot mass consumer pablum as well.
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Thank you for your tips.
 
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