archived-videos Star Trek - Horizon

T

tommygdawg

Hey all,

I've just released the first teaser trailer for my independent Star Trek feature film. What do you all think? :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6lvauYhw70

"Star Trek: Horizon is a feature-length film set during the time of Enterprise (the fifth Star Trek series).

The Coalition of Planets, a young alliance of worlds led by Earth, is at war with the Romulan Empire. Desperate for a chance to gain the upper hand in the war, the Coalition forms an alliance with T'mar, a Romulan deserter, in the hopes that she can provide valuable intelligence on her former masters."
 
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The trailer looks good!

Original universe or not: it takes skills to make this.
And it's a great way to show your skills.

In Dutch there is a saying:
"Beter goed gejat dan slecht verzonnen."
It translates into something like:
"It's better to have a good, but stolen idea than a bad original one." :P

I want to make two more very short shorts and then I will look into the Star Wars universe: because it's fun and cool. One of the actors I work with was a kid when the first Star Wars (IV) hit the cinemas: he's like: "Can you make lightsabers! I want a part with lightsaber!!!"
 
Dreadylocks said:
In the case of VFX artists especially, fan films have a history of leading to real industry jobs. Just sayin'.
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Yep. This could be one of the last times we see tommydawg on our humble forum. I hope so, anyway (in the same sense that Ben Affleck's character hoped to never again see Matt Damon again, in Good Will Hunting).

GA, I think you're a little off to imply that t-dawg is riding on anybody's coattails. This IS an original story. Would it somehow be better if he told the same story, but without the Trek logo?
 
Cracker Funk said:
GA, I think you're a little off to imply that t-dawg is riding on anybody's coattails. This IS an original story. Would it somehow be better if he told the same story, but without the Trek logo?
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I've been in the media biz a long time and thief is an ongoing problem yet I cannot afford to go after those who plagiarize.

If you're going to use any tiny bit of someone else's material, expect to be called on it now and then. I'm not the only one who has these views, I just tend to speak my mind regardless of the potential blowback (as we have seen).

So, lets say it was not Star Trek, but, rather, Karen Carpenter tommygdawg built his project around. What do you think will happen?

This --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstar:_The_Karen_Carpenter_Story

Yes, it would have been significantly better had he not used ANY reference to popular culture in his project and came up with a 100% original piece of work.
 
GuerrillaAngel said:
I've been in the media biz a long time and thief is an ongoing problem yet I cannot afford to go after those who plagiarize.

If you're going to use any tiny bit of someone else's material, expect to be called on it now and then. I'm not the only one who has these views, I just tend to speak my mind regardless of the potential blowback (as we have seen).

So, lets say it was not Star Trek, but, rather, Karen Carpenter tommygdawg built his project around. What do you think will happen?

This --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstar:_The_Karen_Carpenter_Story

Yes, it would have been significantly better had he not used ANY reference to popular culture in his project and came up with a 100% original piece of work.
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The Carpenter story is a different case:
Richard was insulted because of the gay insinuation, but could only ban the movie because of copyright infringement of the songs. The movie used actual recordings that were not payed for.
It's a very thin line, but Richard Carpenter didn't win, because it was about him and his family (their universe).

And since Paramount seems to allow fan films as log as they don't damage the 'brand' and don't make any profit, I think the OP is fine. It may even attract Paramount's attention in positive way, and if that happens it wasn't 'way better to make something original'. :P

There are 2 different ways to stand out as a filmmaker:
- original and compelling storytelling
- great skills and execution
Although combining those two is the best there is, this trailer at least seems to contain the latter.
If it's a compelling story as well, then the only problem is that he didn't invent the universe it is set in.

And whether I like it or not: his trailer got more views than my original 'A shock before Christmas'. (Ok, releasing it 2 days before Christmas wasn't the best moment to get momentum ;) )
So he got people's attention. And let's be honest: we all want to make things that people want to see?

@OP:
When did you start production?
 
Thanks for the additional responses, all :)

I started pre-production over a year ago. It's hard to believe it's been that long! It was around January of 2013. I began filming around last November. The reason it's taking so long to get everything shot is because this has been an all volunteer project, so getting everyone's schedules to line up has been madness. But we're getting there :)
 
GuerrillaAngel said:
I've been in the media biz a long time and thief is an ongoing problem yet I cannot afford to go after those who plagiarize.

If you're going to use any tiny bit of someone else's material, expect to be called on it now and then. I'm not the only one who has these views, I just tend to speak my mind regardless of the potential blowback (as we have seen).

So, lets say it was not Star Trek, but, rather, Karen Carpenter tommygdawg built his project around. What do you think will happen?

This --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstar:_The_Karen_Carpenter_Story

Yes, it would have been significantly better had he not used ANY reference to popular culture in his project and came up with a 100% original piece of work.
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I disagree. If Paramount has no problem for fan films, why should you? If someone has passion for a particular universe and are inspired to use it to tell their tale, then let them. It's good for the health of the franchise if people can use the material to craft an interesting tale. Rick Berman and Brannon Braga could have taken some pointers off of this.
 
Tommygdawg, great work! I might ask you for help on my sci-fi feature!

Please don't be insulted by GuerillaAngel. He speaking of an IP reality -- they could come down on you at any time and there would be nothing you could do. :( I think everyone here understands that issue and we're only supporting you when we see this come up.
 
tommygdawg said:
Creating a Star Trek fan film allows me to latch onto an in-built audience where there otherwise would be none.
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Exactly! The Star Trek audience has been built by the hard work and investment of the rights owners of Star Trek, not by you. If you want an audience for your work, you need to invest and work to create one of your own rather than effectively stealing someone else's.

tommygdawg said:
There's nothing wrong with telling a story in somebody elses universe.
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You mean apart from the fact it's immoral and against the law?

tommygdawg said:
Suppose I was hired by Paramount to write and direct a Star Trek feature film, would you then call me a thief?
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No, I would call you a fool for accepting the gig and I would call Paramount a thief, unless of course Paramount owns the rights to Star Trek (which it does), in which case they can exploit the rights they own however they wish, that's whole point of copyright law and in owning the copyright, which you don't!

tommygdawg said:
CBS and Paramount have historically been very supportive of fan endeavors. There are fan films that have used Kickstarter to make over $300,000 dollars to support their production costs and never been given C&D letters.
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Nevertheless, the rights to Star Trek belong to the rights holders. How they decide to exercise those rights are completely up to them. Maybe certain fan films, released at certain times they may decide to tolerate or even to encourage, that's up to them. If for example they think a particular fan film might be of some benefit to them (and their marketing) they may decide to tolerate it. Just as easily though they could have a change in policy, decide a particular fan film hurts their brand, represents some sort of competition/confusion if the release of the fan film is anywhere near the release of their own film or in fact for absolutely any reason they want, they can shut down the fan film at any time they choose.

Contrary to what you have stated, Paramount (Viacom) have in fact shut down quite a number of Trekkie "fan endeavours". If you want to spend months/years of effort to make something which someone at Paramount can at any stage stop you from ever showing to anyone, it seems a foolish risk to me but it's your time/money to waste. I'm with GA, Directorik and Will Vincent, I would have been impressed if this had been based on your own idea and think it's a shame you are wasting your obvious talents.

G
 
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I dunno if I would go so far as to say it's a waste of talent. More like honing talent on a project that's enjoyable. I still don't understand the general fan-film culture.. pouring lots of time and often way too much money into something that can never even break even is just weird.. but to each their own.

The OP has stated though that he(?) plans to work on several additional future projects that are original. Better to hone skills on something that can't make money than something that maybe otherwise could have made money I guess.
 
There's a HUGE Trek community, and this is far better than any other star trek fan produced stuff I've ever seen...

I'll go on record, I don't like fan films. I don't like most indie films and most of the crap that's posted online -- I'd watch this.
 
WalterB said:
The Carpenter story is a different case
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No, it is not. I'm stating that people can and do get sued for the use of other people's work. Neither you, I, tommyg, and most filmmakers can know for sure where that line of accountability for thief is until you get to court. tommyg has opened the door wide open for a lawsuit.

APE has addressed this in depth, so I will not repeat myself except to say that tommyg will be facing the thief question throughout his career unless he gets on the 100% original track.
 
Wow, it's like top notch indie filmmaking snobbery at its best in here.

Whether it's Star Trek or anything else, I'm of the belief that if you're telling a story you're passionate about, then that's all that matters, especially if the creators/copyright of the universe you're telling stories in are okay with it.

I'm passionate about my story, and it's a Star Trek story. Like it or lump it. To those who have been able to at least be kind in their critiques, thank you.
 
tommygdawg said:
Wow, it's like top notch indie filmmaking snobbery at its best in here.

Whether it's Star Trek or anything else, I'm of the belief that if you're telling a story you're passionate about, then that's all that matters, especially if the creators/copyright of the universe you're telling stories in are okay with it.

I'm passionate about my story, and it's a Star Trek story. Like it or lump it. To those who have been able to at least be kind in their critiques, thank you.
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Tommy, ignore trolls and people looking to start arguments. Listen to people who can give good feedback & have valid points. You've created a good film of higher quality than a fair amount of films I've seen on the forum, and I can honestly say you have talent and skill. Keep up the awesome work.
 
tommygdawg said:
Wow, it's like top notch indie filmmaking snobbery at its best in here. Whether it's Star Trek or anything else, I'm of the belief that if you're telling a story you're passionate about, then that's all that matters ...
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Then you've got a serious problem with your "belief"! How is observance of international law snobbery, while deliberately flouting international law is OK? One day, if you are to make a living out of filmmaking, you are going to be entirely reliant on the existence international copyright law. But apparently it's OK for you to ignore the law but not anyone else, who is the snob here?

tommygdawg said:
... especially if the creators/copyright of the universe you're telling stories in are okay with it.
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Ah, you already have clearance from Paramount for your film, why didn't you say? There would have been no need for this entire debate of international law and snobbery and we could all have unanimously praised your efforts!

Of course, if you don't have clearance then you're fooling yourself and trying to fool us because you actually have no idea whatsoever if Paramount are "okay with it"! I could say for example, that your teaser does not look like the average fan film, it looks more like a commercial product and for this reason Paramount will definitely shut you down. But, I cannot be anymore certain that Paramount will definitely shut you down than you can be that they won't!! There are precedents of Paramount tolerating "fan endeavours" and there are many precedents of them shutting down "fan endeavours".

At the end of the day, by making your film (without clearance) you are breaking the law and therefore leaving yourself open to whatever course of action Paramount decides, and your "belief" is irrelevant. Furthermore, if/when Paramount becomes aware of your film, they might decide to tacitly tolerate it but they can, at any stage, change their minds and shut you down.

G
 
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