cinematography Shooting with just one lens

msp1518

msp1518

Hi gang. The DP that has agreed to shoot my short is away on a little vacation so I wanted to swing this crazy idea by you all to see what you think. That way, if it's really stupid, I don't run it by her and get that look. :blush:

I'm gearing up for three shorts over six months. The first to be shot early January. It's a 5 minute comedic piece, nothing fancy, and I am starting to get this crazy idea of shooting it with just one lens, ala El Mariachi. We'll have two cameras (DSLR's) and sticking a wide angle lens (not fisheye) on both means I can double my coverage and go for that natural back and forth I want, save on setup time and just see if it can be done.

My other shorts would not be right for something like this, but for a simple comedic piece featuring two guy bantering in a bar, it could work.

Or perhaps I am loony.
 
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You shouldn't have much of a problem there. I would have suggested a wide in a one-lens-only scenario because I feel like it's a happy medium in terms of versatility.

To me it would be trickier to shoot with a tele (or even a 50mm, considering crop factor on these DSLRs). In that case you run into physically backing up a fair piece to get your "wide" or establishing shots, etc., which isn't fun for interior shots.

Hope it goes well!
 
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I think the answer to you question would theoretically be "yes" you can use one lens. The problem with asking a question like this is that we have no idea what your film is about, your location, art design or what you want it to look like.

It's kind of like posting a photo of a sofa and asking us if we think it would compliment your living room decor. We have no idea what your living room looks like so how can we answer the question?
 
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Your DP will probably give you that look. You can definitely shoot a short with nothing but wide, but do you really want to? You're not really saving any time, as it only takes a moment to switch lenses. The majority of time needed to set up is devoted to lighting, not your camera. Also, I don't see why you need a wide lens to use 2 cameras and get that back-and-forth. To me, the cost outweighs any potential benefit.
 
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Is the question, whether you will get that look from your DP?

Answer: Yes.


Is the question, can it be done?

Answer: Yes.


Is the question, whether it is a good way to do your short?

Answer: Depends on your short and the style you want it to be in.
 
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Comedic short, takes place mostly in a bar or club like setting at night. Mostly banter between two friends, with some dance shots and a few shots of many people at a table having a good time.

I suppose I could use two to three lenses and stick with that and no more. For this shoot I want to keep it simple so that I can manage it after nearly ten years away from directing.
 
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msp1518 said:
Comedic short, takes place mostly in a bar or club like setting at night. Mostly banter between two friends, with some dance shots and a few shots of many people at a table having a good time.

I suppose I could use two to three lenses and stick with that and no more. For this shoot I want to keep it simple so that I can manage it after nearly ten years away from directing.
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I think the lens is the least of your concern. You're gonna need a shit-ton of lights, and I hope your DP really knows what they're doing.
 
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Look at it in boards or some sort of pre-viz shot list. Show those to your DP, talk about the location and they should be able to suggest what sort of lens options can get you where you want to be. In a nightclub space you might not have the flexibility to place the camera to get exactly the shot you want if you are limited to a single lens. With smaller gear this is less of a problem, but I wouldn't rule it out.

And x2 on the lighting. You'll want all sorts of practical accent stuff going, and unless you can swing the use of an actual club, lighting a dance floor scene will need manpower to run lights on dimmers.

In the event you get a club as a location and can use their lighting, you'll want fast lenses to make use of it. You still have to light the scene, but the practical aspect is in-built at the location.
 
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msp1518 said:
Comedic short, takes place mostly in a bar or club like setting at night. Mostly banter between two friends, with some dance shots and a few shots of many people at a table having a good time.

I suppose I could use two to three lenses and stick with that and no more. For this shoot I want to keep it simple so that I can manage it after nearly ten years away from directing.
Click to expand...

Hey MSP, if you need help give me a ring. I'll gladly help a fellow filmmaker out.
 
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CrackerFunk is tellin you like it is... You do not want to shoot w/ 2 cams. Each angle will require different lighting. The optimal lighting for Cam A will mess w/ cam B.. if you use film you will have more latitude in the process. Some great scenes in films were shot w/ multiple cameras on film <<< digest that.. "on film".

Digital is not very forgiving w/ the process...you have been told.
 
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IndieBudget said:
CrackerFunk is tellin you like it is... You do not want to shoot w/ 2 cams. Each angle will require different lighting. The optimal lighting for Cam A will mess w/ cam B.. if you use film you will have more latitude in the process. Some great scenes in films were shot w/ multiple cameras on film <<< digest that.. "on film".

Digital is not very forgiving w/ the process...you have been told.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the shout-out, but actually, I love a 2-cam-shoot. My comment on lighting was more about the sheer size of the space you have to light, and the complexities that David mentions.
 
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We use multiple cams most of the time, longer set ups, but it cuts together a lot nicer.

You may get away with one lens. But keep in mind that even with a crop sensor camera, with a wide angle lens (I'm guessing in the 20's?) you'll need to be like 10-14" away from the subject for a tight shot, and they're so wide that doing two over the shoulders might not work because you'll see the other camera.

It's only $20 ea to rent a 28 1.8, 50 1.4, and 85 1.8 at the local camera shop here. Even less online, you'll probably be a lot happier with more selection.

Ask your DP though for sure. You should be able to trust him enough to ask a "stupid" question. Mine talked me in to renting a 400mm f/2.8 lens on our last production (in addition to a 24, 50, 85, 24-70mm zoom and 2x extender), and it ended up being the coolest shot we had.
 
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The lounge is at an apartment building and much brighter than a normal bar or dance club. We will fake it and dress the place as a local club. Thankfully digital does not have the same lighting requirements as film.

The DP is quite good. Her work is amazing so I think we'll be OK. This weekend we will spend some time at the lounge doing camera and lighting tests and hopefully that will give us a good idea of exactly what we need to bring in there next month.

And I'll talk to the DP about all of this. Sounds to me like my idea was a little silly, which I thought it might have been. I appreciate all the advice you guys are giving me.
 
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I completely missed the part about having two cameras. I would not recommend a two
camera shoot where lens choice is restricted. Lighting for 2 cameras is one consideration, but without being able to make lens choices, more often than not both cameras will have the same shot, which is kinda silly. Also, if you are doing overs, as Paul pointed out, you'd have one hell of a time getting the cameras out of each other's shots.

For example, I AC for a TV show that shoots 2 camera's all the time. While we usually light for primarily camera A and slot camera B into place. Our DP has many years experience doing TV, and knows how to light so that the 2nd camera has shots. He usually doesn't have to adjust too much. Even when doing overs, the cross-keys are usually already set and just adjusted from their position in the master.

Operator A: "I've got the wide, <B op> you go in for the swingles.*"

Swingles: Shooting singles on multiple characters back and forth (say on a couch, or at a bar).

Or something like this:

Operator A: "I'm on the ECU's. <B Op>, you grab the 2 shot."

And so on.

Bear in mind though that we're shooting a "non-fiction" crime recreation show with a very cutty style - lots of what we get with 2 cameras is just to give coverage to the editors for all the flash and bang and such. Where 2 cameras really shines on that show is when we need to split teams in order to make our day.

msp1518 said:
The lounge is at an apartment building and much brighter than a normal bar or dance club. We will fake it and dress the place as a local club. Thankfully digital does not have the same lighting requirements as film.
Click to expand...

I would be worried then about it being too bright overall. You'll want darkness in the frame to see that it is a night club and not some apartment building common room. You may not need as large of instruments to get there, but you have the challenge of creating a dynamic shot with good shadow detail, good highlight detail along with portions of the frame that should be almost blown out (practical light sources) and almost completely crunched (the really darks, the stuff that sells the word night in night club) and doing it within the relatively restricted latitude of your sensor (since we are making the film comparison).

While you are dressing it like a club, remember to light it like a club. The dance floor is bright, colorful, and full of movement. Do you know anyone with DJ lighting gear? The bar is a little brighter than the rest of the space, but mostly as a side effect of decorative lighting combined with working light for the barkeeps. The corners are dark, where the beautiful people go to make out and the not so beautiful snort coke off of their house key. And so on. :D Going back to the dance floor, the light should dance along with the players. Ever notice that there is some characteristic about the combination of dance floor lighting and rhythmic movement that can make someone seem far more attractive than they actually are?
 
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I don't know anyone with DJ lighting gear. I haven't clubbed this century. :)

My DP and I will be at the location Saturday to do tests and so that she can determine what we need. I really hope to be able to borrow or rent some kind of strobes or something. Hell, it's Christmas, so maybe I can find some dimmer x-mas lights and use them in some way.

There is one room in the lounge with some good red light that will b perfect for one scene and I hope to add to the redness and really juice it up.

We really have no budget, so it will be interesting to see just how much we can pull off with next to no money. My DP is very talented, so I know she will do whatever is possible.
 
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Strobes don't really play well on CMOS cameras. The way the shutter scans the frame vs. the rate of the strobe == horizontal banding of light and dark. Sometimes the strobe doesn't appear to light the frame at all at certain rates.

I'd almost say, if you haven't been to the type of space you are trying to emulate in a long time, that a field trip with your dp to a few spots might be in order. :idea:
 
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