Shooting an Off-Screen Character

[Madlabent]

I'm producing a short film where some of the scenes are meant to look like someone is recording the main characters...sorta like how everyday people make home videos of a birthday party, etc. but I'm also the director and I plan to shoot it myself. The script and story calls for the characters who are being recorded to interact with the person behind the camera...BUT I do not want to play this role, even though I will be the one shooting.

Here's what I'm having difficulty figuring out:

What is the best way to shoot these scenes?

A. Cast an actor to walk behind me during production and perform all of the necessary lines of dialogue for those scenes, while I shoot.

-or-

B. Shoot the scenes and have a script supervisor fill-in as a placeholder during production, and then cast an actor to record a voice-over that will then be used for those scenes.


HOWEVER...

My concern about option A is sound...will I be able to make sure that double footsteps (mine and the actor behind me) don't show up in the audio side of the footage?

My concern about option B is also sound...will my editor have to do a lot of tweaking with the audio to make the voice-over blend in with the natural sound and dialogue of the scenes that were already shot in advance?

 

[directorik]

No matter what, the post audio is essential and will take a lot of
time, editing, rerecording and editing. I, personally, would hire
an actor - option A

 

[harmonica44]

Can you get the actor to record his lines in the same location after shooting, so he is not making footsteps? Or you can use the footsteps as part of the sound effects, but it may not sound as good as footsteps recorded afterwords with the mics closer. Actors walk and talk all the time in movies though, down hallways and what not, so I'm guessing they record it live.

 

[Madlabent]

directorik,

Thanks for offering a suggestion. I know that post audio is important but I just don't want the editing process to take longer than it should, since we're talking about a short film here. If the production is only scheduled to last 3 days max, then I expect the post-production to last no longer than six days max.

harmonica 44,

Yeah you're onto something there....I have thought about getting the actor to record his lines on the day of shooting, after everyone has wrapped all of the shots. In that scenario, am I just having a standby actor or script supervisor fill to keep everyone else's dialogue, action and all of the other elements of the scene in tact, while we're shooting?

 

[AudioPostExpert]

Actors walk and talk all the time in movies though, down hallways and what not, so I'm guessing they record it live.

One of the big differences between making shorts or films for the internet or festivals and making films for commercial distribution is the sound requirements. All the serious distributors I know of have delivery requirements which specify separate stem and M&E mixes as well as a final mix. This means a minimum of separate Dialogue mix, Sound FX mix and Music Mix, plus a mix containing everything except the dialogue (M&E mix). This is so the film can later be re-versioned for DVD, TV syndication, plus dubbing in another language. Obviously not all films are going to be re-versioned but it's a standard delivery requirement nevertheless for TV companies as well as for film distribution companies. This means of course that you can't have footsteps (or any other SFX) in the dialogue stem, which means you can't have production sound with dialogue and footsteps simultaneously. In commercial films the footsteps would be dampened during production or if that's not possible the dialogue would be ADR'ed, either way the footsteps would almost without exception be done by the Foley team in post.

G

 

[Lucky Hardwood]

I would do the Star Wars route and have you deliver the off screen actor's dialog on the day and have the actor record the voice over in the same space on the same day. Then replace the dialog in post.

 

[Madlabent]

Ok, so based on the responses in this thread combined, it looks like the ADR route would be best. I hope I can find an editor who also does ADR or at the very least, a boom operator who can also do sound editing. I didn't think Foley would be an issue or even an element to consider since I plan on shooting on HD and was just going to include whatever footsteps, etc. came with the original audio retrieved from the footage since no film stock is involved and thus, no requirement or use for a whole lot of special bells and whistles for footsteps.

However, AudioPostExpert's mention of the M&E factor has me figuring that I might as well get some Foley work done, if possible, if the ADR is already going to be done.

Thanks you guys, for all of your input.

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

We Foley everything. Every footstep, every glass set down on a table, every light switch flipped. Even with good production audio it usually needs to be sweetened.

In a situation like you describe we have the AD read the off camera dialogue then bring the actor in for ADR (if that is the correct term, and I don't think it is in this case) after the fact.

 

[harmonica44]

directorik,

Thanks for offering a suggestion. I know that post audio is important but I just don't want the editing process to take longer than it should, since we're talking about a short film here. If the production is only scheduled to last 3 days max, then I expect the post-production to last no longer than six days max.

harmonica 44,

Yeah you're onto something there....I have thought about getting the actor to record his lines on the day of shooting, after everyone has wrapped all of the shots. In that scenario, am I just having a standby actor or script supervisor fill to keep everyone else's dialogue, action and all of the other elements of the scene in tact, while we're shooting?

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Sorry I took long to get back. Did you shoot it yet? What I mean is after you are done shooting, just have your actor, or whoever you get record his lines into the mic. That way you will get the same room sound on the voice that everyone else has in that scene, and it should not require as much tweaking in post. It should ideally come out sounding the same if recorded in the same room.

Make sure the mic is the same distance away from the actor as if you were shooting, with the mic out of frame. The same distance helps it sound the same as everyone in that scene. If you understand what I mean. As far as the script supervisor goes, his or her job should still be the same and won't change, if that's what you mean.

 

[Madlabent]

harmonica44,

I understood what you originally meant about the actor recording his lines in the same places where we shoot to keep it sounding authentic. You and I are on the same page with that.

No, I didn't shoot it yet. I planned to today actually, but that got pushed back for weeks due to a delay in casting and finding locations (the one I was going to use for the main scenes backed out). This filmmaking shit is losing its appeal...it seems like everytime I find a solution to a problem or setback, something else comes along and turns my production plans on their head.

I just can't win.

 

[moonshieldmedia]

I just did this exact thing a few weeks ago. I was shooting a children's birthday party home footage style. I had my cinematographer work the camera as I said the lines of the "dad" behind the camera, I just stood directly by the cinematographer and stayed out of the shot. My footsteps were not an issue as it was a birthday party and there is lots of noise and walking anyway.

I did a rough cut with my voice in there, and using only camera audio. I was happy with the audio quality, since home footage isn't supposed to sound good, but I wasn't happy with my acting performance as the dad, so I eded up hiring an actor to replace my dialogue in post. It does take a lot of EQing and dialogue editing to get it to sound natural and in the moment, but luckily my voice served as a good reference point and there was no visual syncing necessary.

 

[moonshieldmedia]

In regards to sound mixing and foley and stems:

For the rest of my feature, I fully plan on recording each aspect of audio on separate tracks, especially since I plan on doing a surround sound mix, but for this particular "home footage" portion in the opening main titles, my reasoning is that the audience should not feel like they are in the environment with a professional mix, rather it should sound like the audience is watching a subpar recording on a TV set. That's why I didn't feel the need to have dialogue and sound fx recorded separately from the rest of the environment on set.

I'm sorry to hear you're having a bad experience with filmmaking. The only advice I can give is: Don't start scheduling your shoot until you have gone over everything in your head and on paper. Once you've fully covered all your bases, and you stay organized and thorough, the surprise issues that pop up will be less and less. Also, maybe don't start a project unless you have more budget than you actually need. Almost any problem in filmmaking can be fixed with more money or more time.