Seemingly-random camera movement -- why do you do that?

Cracker Funk

Cracker Funk

I'm seeing this way too often, in my opinion. Camera movement that doesn't seem to have any reason behind it. It's like everybody with a DSLR has to justify the purchase of that expensive slider, so they're using it on every single shot. Gratuitous-slider-shots is the new gratuitous-shallow-depth-of-field. Can we stop doing this?

Sorry for the rant. If anybody disagrees with my assessment, I'd be glad to hear your response.
 
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Well, much has to do with life imitating art as Hollywood is certainly guilty of it, too, IMO. If it's well done, I don't really notice it. A movie shot entirely on sticks just seems flat today by the same token. No good answer from me I guess.
 
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Anyone remember or noticed when dutch angles were beaten to death in the 60's and early 70's? For the youngin's, try to find some of the original episodes of Batman.
 
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Consider it the director's commentary on the non-engaging script that must be compensated for with moving inaction, lest the audience nod off.
;)


Ray - Dishing out smart @ss since the circus left town without him! ;)
 
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Gonzo_Entertainment said:
Saw it in Thor as well. The completely gratuitous and unmotivated dutch angles.
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Yeah, it completely ruined the movie for me (well, that, and how completely nonsensical the whole thing was). Battlefield Earth should be required viewing for every director. Yearly, probably, just as a grim reminder.

I haven't noticed an abundance of unnecessary moving cameras lately, but they're there, just like they've always been. In truth, I actually enjoy moving cameras over static cameras for just about everything, so long as they're done correctly, but done incorrectly they're more distracting than anything else, so.
 
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Good post, Cracker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q34OSPw17o4​

This interview (IMO) is worth watching in its entirety, but per the topic of camera moves and placement, click to 5:00 minutes in.

I think The Ghost Writer is an excellent example of deliberate and restrained yet highly effective cinematography. The camera did what was required to tell the story for Polanski, nothing more.

That said, Scorsese would have shot something totally different. Apples, oranges, grapefruits...
 
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Cool interview, Flicker. I loved "Ghost Writer". Why the heck haven't I seen "Chinatown"?!

Vader, I agree that shooting entirely on tripod would probably be boring. I love moving the camera. But I also like to lock it down. I kinda think, for most movies, it could be compared to a well-balanced football offense.

Every now and then, a team succeeds by strictly passing the ball. Every now and then, a team succeeds by strictly ramming the ball down your throat. Usually, though, running and passing are used to support each other, and the best offenses are those that maintain balance.

I see too many young filmmakers trying to be Boise St. They run a gimmick offense that works great in college, but would get shut down in the NFL. We need more people to try being Stanford.
 
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Kholi said:
Or, we need to let people do as they please and learn what they like, so that we all don't have the same voice.

Just saying.
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Dude.

Are you telling me you've never seen a trend that bugs you?

You're making a pretty big leap to say that because I think camera movement can easily become gratuitous that I somehow think we should all have the same voice.

No, you're right. A filmmaking forum is the wrong place to post opinions about what methods work best for the success of a film vs. what methods might actually just pull an audience out of the movie. What was I thinking?

Besides, I did mention the fact that some football teams are able to succeed by strictly passing the ball. (in other words, some filmmakers might actually be able to pull off constant camera movement, successfully).
 
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Cracker Funk said:
Dude.

Are you telling me you've never seen a trend that bugs you?

You're making a pretty big leap to say that because I think camera movement can easily become gratuitous that I somehow think we should all have the same voice.
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There are techniques that bug me, but I don't consider them trends. There are tons of "non newbie" filmmakers that constantly keep the camera moving on dollies or cranes. Some don't.

It bugs me when people use vulgar language in movies, curse words and all, to describe how they feel. To me, it's sophomoric and smells of bad writing.

I'm not gonna go and tell anyone to not do that.

Do you like vulgar language in movies?

No, you're right. A filmmaking forum is the wrong place to post opinions about what methods work best for the success of a film vs. what methods might actually just pull an audience out of the movie. What was I thinking?
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I didn't tell you not to post, but I did post my opinion. Maybe there are a good five or six of the people you're telling "not do do that" that came across your thread and felt bad about themselves.

Besides, I did mention the fact that some football teams are able to succeed by strictly passing the ball. (in other words, some filmmakers might actually be able to pull off constant camera movement, successfully).
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That's cool. Only thing I said is to let people learn what they like so that they develop their own voice.
 
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Kholi, I feel like you've misunderstood the point of my post. Perhaps I poorly communicated it. The point I tried to make is that every movement should have a reason. Movement for the sake of movement is gratuitous. I'm not against moving the camera. I'm just suggesting that perhaps we should all consider a little more about when and why we move it.

Just like cursing. There should be a reason behind it. Cursing for the sake of cursing is gratuitous, and no, I don't like gratuitous cursing.

As a general rule, I don't like gratuitous anything, unless we're making a B-movie, and gratuitous is the whole point.

To be frank, I feel like you bringing up cursing, then calling it an indication of poor writing, is a rather passive-aggressive way for you to take a swipe at me, and I don't really appreciate that. (Either that, or you've never seen any of my movies)
 
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Cracker Funk said:
To be frank, I feel like you bringing up cursing, then calling it an indication of poor writing, is a rather passive-aggressive way for you to take a swipe at me, and I don't really appreciate that.
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I've never watched a single thing you've done short of a trailer for your feature. I don't remember much ofit outside of the music selection, but I also don't remember cursing.

Sucks that you feel that way, man.

On the other end of it, maybe I did misread your two posts, because both sounded similar to the old dof venom that so many people spat all over the place. Basically, it read as "stop doing it". In that instance, I don't honk anyone has a right to take away another pesoms creative freedom.

But, you're not saying that so yeah, misunderstood.
 
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Kholi said:
I've never watched a single thing you've done short of a trailer for your feature. I don't remember much ofit outside of the music selection, but I also don't remember cursing.

Sucks that you feel that way, man.

On the other end of it, maybe I did misread your two posts, because both sounded similar to the old dof venom that so many people spat all over the place. Basically, it read as "stop doing it". In that instance, I don't honk anyone has a right to take away another pesoms creative freedom.

But, you're not saying that so yeah, misunderstood.
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Cool. Sorry if I got hot-headed. Glad to know your comments on cursing were coincidental (yeah, my movies can have a lot of them).

You did read my two posts correctly, at least to an extent. Yes, this is similar to the "old dof venom" in that I'm seeing something that I think has gotten out of hand, and in my opinion is being used too much (like shallow DOF was). But, no, I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying do it with purpose. Know why you're doing it when you're doing it. Perhaps I'm guilty of poorly phrasing what I meant to say.

Cheers. :)

Also, you should watch one of my movies!!! Good times. :D

This one was shot entirely hand-held:

http://vimeo.com/26848263

EDIT: Context (for what it's worth) -- I close my bar every Saturday night, get home around 3AM, then turn around and get back to work by 6:30AM, to work a very long and busy brunch shift. It's actually great, because that's where the bulk of my income comes from, but on Sunday evening, I might be a little cranky, and perhaps short-tempered. Anyway, just wanted to reiterate that I see that the misunderstanding was on my part, not yours.
 
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Cracker Funk said:
I'm seeing this way too often, in my opinion. Camera movement that doesn't seem to have any reason behind it. It's like everybody with a DSLR has to justify the purchase of that expensive slider, so they're using it on every single shot. Gratuitous-slider-shots is the new gratuitous-shallow-depth-of-field. Can we stop doing this?

Sorry for the rant. If anybody disagrees with my assessment, I'd be glad to hear your response.
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That's what I read. My brain translated it in a different fashion, no harm done either way.

On Cursing: it's actually one of my top-listers, which is why I grasped at it immediately when posting from my iPhone. I would've chosen "people being tied to chairs and tortured", because that's pretty darn close, but it would've taken too many words.

However, it is what it is, and sometimes good things come out of both of those.

I stopped paying attention so that it wouldn't bother me, and just let them do as they saw fit. Either they'll learn how to apply it in a way that makes them happy and doesn't make anyone else angry, or keep doing it and that's that.

Same thing happened with shooting wide-open when adapters hit the market years ago. Flux, then it died down. Just part of the cycle.

I know for one I've seen some very nice slider footage and have learned two new tricks in the last three months that I want to use. Same thing happened with the DOF crazyness.

Anyway, all green.
 
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And, for the record: I did speak out [very] loud in SUCKER PUNCH.

"I swear if she lands like that again I'm gonna throw my slushie at the screen.'

You know that landing that everyone does in action movies? The one that was taken out of anime? Land on one knee with one hand down and one arm out?

THE AVENGERS trailer, I think Scarlet does it three times. And, that's just the trailer.

It's quickly climbing to number one spot of my kill list... but, what can you do?
 
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Cracker Funk said:
I'm seeing this way too often, in my opinion. Camera movement that doesn't seem to have any reason behind it. It's like everybody with a DSLR has to justify the purchase of that expensive slider, so they're using it on every single shot. Gratuitous-slider-shots is the new gratuitous-shallow-depth-of-field. Can we stop doing this?

Sorry for the rant. If anybody disagrees with my assessment, I'd be glad to hear your response.
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The time spent doing the slider could have instead been spent moving the tripod and getting several more takes at different angles.
 
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Kholi said:
And, for the record: I did speak out [very] loud in SUCKER PUNCH.

"I swear if she lands like that again I'm gonna throw my slushie at the screen.'

You know that landing that everyone does in action movies? The one that was taken out of anime? Land on one knee with one hand down and one arm out?
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ACK! Yes, It's painful to watch, it's become a MSFT3000 worthy moment.
But, is it originally from anime? It was a cool think in some of the Chinese Martial Arts sagas of the early 90's with Woo Ping choreography, did anime precede it?
 
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brianluce said:
ACK! Yes, It's painful to watch, it's become a MSFT3000 worthy moment.
But, is it originally from anime? It was a cool think in some of the Chinese Martial Arts sagas of the early 90's with Woo Ping choreography, did anime precede it?
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I'm honestly not sure. I don't recall it too much until after The Matrix. I think that might have been the turning point. I could be wrong, of course.
 
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