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Script Length

Q

Quarry

I have this problem for days now...

Which is the proper length of a horror script? Isn't it supposed to be more than 140 pages since there are long descriptions involved? You know... It's not like you describe a shooting scene. You have to describe the violence and that means too big descriptions. So, the horror scripts aren't they supposed to be longer? Mine is 250 pages no matter how many scenes I deleted. Who's going to read this thing?
 
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Also, for what it's worth, I'm well aware of how to use code tags, being a programmer I make use of them on other forums when I'm actually, you know, sharing CODE.. ;)

As for the captialization -- dude, I was using the EXACT SAME snippet of script you used. Just indicating that whatever BS format you're apparently copying is way wrong.
 
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Quarry said:
I have this problem for days now...

Which is the proper length of a horror script?
95-120 pages
Isn't it supposed to be more than 140 pages since there are long descriptions involved? You know... It's not like you describe a shooting scene.
The writer, unless s/he's also the director, does not decide how to shoot the scene. Period.
You have to describe the violence and that means too big descriptions.
Descriptions should be minimal. It's the director and art director's jobs to realize the scenes. You give enough detail relevant to the action in the scene and no more. If you want to have big descriptions write the novel.
So, the horror scripts aren't they supposed to be longer? Mine is 250 pages no matter how many scenes I deleted.
As others pointed out, dialogue heavy scripts tend to play shorter while action heavy scripts play longer. A well balanced script has about one page = one screen minute. Unless you are bankrolling your own film, most producers want scripts under two hours (120 pages).
Who's going to read this thing?
truthfully, no one.
Click to expand...

Re-read Rayw's notes. They are straight to the heart of the issue.

DAVID
looks down at the hole, surprised.

A TWISTING BULLET
suddenly gets stuck in his forehead and he goes down flat as a line of blood flows on his face.
Click to expand...

If you've already introduced David, he doesn't need to be all caps and you definitely don't want to separate him on his own line. The 'twisting bullet' may end up getting scrapped in production. Even so, what does "gets stuck" mean? What does 'surprised' look like?

Code: 
David looks down at the bullet hole in his side.  As he touches his side, 
a whizzing sound and his head jerks back.  

A glazed look crosses his face.  Blood trickles down 

from the bullet hole in his forehead.  

He collapses face down and blood pools beneath him.
Keep action descriptions short and clean. The above descriptions create a visual sense of four shots. The director is free to visualize the shots as desired. If the director chooses to include the whirling bullet they can. Really it's not necessary to the scene. Unless you are making the picture, it's wasted description. I tend to format my descriptions in visual blocks. But as in Rayw's example, they can be collapsed:
Code: 
David looks down at the bullet hole in his side.  As he touches his side, 
a whizzing sound and his head jerks back.  

A glazed look crosses his face.  Blood trickles down from the bullet hole 
in his forehead.  He collapses face down and blood pools beneath him.
A shooting script, with shot numbers, is a different beast from the spec script. There the rules often are dependent on the studio. Shooting scripts often have break-outs to track props, camera angles, etc. If you're trying to sell this, you want to lose all of that detail and cut to the bare bones.

I don't believe in hard-n-fast rules. However, AS A GUIDELINE, descriptions should follow the slugline and be no more than 6-7 lines at most when first introducing the location. Descriptions of clothing and characters should be confined to what is essential to understanding the scene. Let the actors, makeup artists, costume designers and other creative folk do their jobs. Action lines should be only 3 or 4 lines at most. Most are only one or two lines in length. A single line of dialogue should be no more than 4 sentences or about fifty words. Ideally you have a balance of dialogue and action on the page. Again, DO NOT TAKE THESE AS LITERAL ITEMS TO COUNT. These are guidelines based on the study of hundreds of successful scripts. There are ALWAYS exceptions. Having 250 pages suggests something in your script is way out of whack. If you go back and look through your scenes, these numbers might help you get a sense if it is your descriptions, actions, or dialogues that need to be fine tuned.

Now in fairness, you may have a two-part movie-of-the week story. You will have a hard time selling it if you don't have any other work beneath your belt. In that case, you will need decide if the story is simply too complex for a feature. Working within a television framework is a different beast. Your story may need all 250 pages, but it should still fall within the above general guidelines.

Go back and use CeltX for your script formatting. It will help immensely with most formatting issues. CeltX is a free application for formatting scripts (https://www.celtx.com/index.html).
 
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Code: 
INT. HOME OFFICE - NIGHT
WILL, 20s, a good looking SOB, stares at QUARRY, indeterminate age, amorphous 
in both presence and existence, who flits glances between his computer screen and 
keyboard.

			WILL
		Dude. What are you--

			QUARRY
		I don't know what to do.
		Is this right?

			WILL
		No, man. Every book, seminar 
		I've experienced makes a very 
		strong point about keeping 
		scripts to 120 pages or less. 
		If you can't keep it to within 
		120 pages your story is either 
		far too long, you are being FAR 
		too verbose with your action 
		text, or a combination of both.

			QUARRY
		I believe that as a movie it 
		would be about two hours and a 
		half. Maybe less. However, 
		maybe I'm formatting the script 
		incorrectly.

RAY, 40s, a specter in the shadows, nods his head in vigorous agreement.

			QUARRY
		I tried to format it just like 
		Robocop script, without the scene 
		numbers. That means, I put a 
		header for each one of the scenes. 
		Example...

Example ignored, Will and Ray exchange glances. Will looks at his watch, Ray 
pulls up 'Robocop' on IMDB.com.

			RAY
		Ho-lee fuckin' shit. That
		screenplay format has got to be--

			WILL
		Scaring the hell outta 
		thirty years old.
			(to Quarry)
		That doesn't look like proper 
		screenplay format to me. Just 
		put it all on one line. The way 
		it's formatted in your quote 
		there it appears like dialog 
		where David would say "looks 
		down at the hole, surprised" 
		and another character named 
		"a twisting bullet" says, 
		"suddenly gets stuck in his 
		forehead...."

Ray chuckles in the shadows.

			QUARRY
		I thought character names are 
		written in capitals only when 
		they are mentioned for the first 
		time. How am I supposed to 
		emphasize the action on something 
		if I don't seperate it from the 
		rest of the description? In the 
		quote, we first emphasize on David 
		looking at the hole, then we 
		emphasize on the bullet stuck on 
		his brain.

Ray chuckles again.

			RAY
		You guys are killing me. First, 
		learn to use the code tags here 
		at IT. Next, with the code tags 
		selected you can include tab over 
		items per line, a feature not 
		otherwise available in the regular 
		IT message composition box. Into 
		the code box copy and paste text 
		from your screenwriting program 
		or even compose it in notepad, as 
		I've done here, three tabs for 
		characters, two tabs for dialog.
		BONUS! Automagically it's in 
		courier!

			WILL
		Indietalk really should have a 
		scrippet tag to make use of fountain. 
		It is available for vBulletin. Also, 
		for what it's worth, I'm well aware 
		of how to use code tags, being a 
		programmer I make use of them on 
		other forums when I'm actually, you 
		know, sharing CODE. As for the 
		captialization... Dude, I was 
		using the EXACT SAME snippet of 
		script you used. Just indicating 
		that whatever BS format you're 
		apparently copying is way wrong.

			RAY
		"Me" dude, my format's wrong? Or 
		"Him" dude, his format's wrong?
 
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“Robocop” written by Ed Neumeier on spec in 1983 is not some BS
format. Old. No longer used. But not BS. What Quarry is using is his
version (as he said, “without the scene numbers”) of the 1986 shooting
script written by Neumeier and Make Miner he has seen on line. It is
a combination of the 30 year old Syd field method and Walter Hill’s
“stacking” format quite popular in those days. It isn’t each scene that
has a “header” it’s each shot. A shooting script.

That format went out of favor 15 years ago.

Quarry, I strongly suggest you find a more current format to mimic. Your
page count will drop considerably.
 
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Yep, all good. And if we assume the OP's 250 page script is exactly like this the whole way through and those 5 lines he's posted can be combined into 2 lines, the script could easily be reduced by 60%. That takes it to 100 pages!
 
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Walter Hill's style isn't so much unique as it set a trend towards minimalist writing. I thought it might interest some to compare his version of "Alien" to O'Bannon's original. It sometimes helps writers to see how their scripts can change once optioned. The original by O'Bannon has some flaws (lots of adverbs, camera angles, capitalizations, excess verbiage, use of "we", etc.) that would get it dinged today. In fairness, O'Bannon may have intended to direct it. Contrast it to Hill's almost poetry-like simplicity. I've taken just the opening sequences for comparison.

O'Bannon Version (Original screenplay):
Code: 
FADE IN:

     EXTREME CLOSEUPS OF FLICKERING INSTRUMENT PANELS.  Readouts and digital
     displays pulse eerily with the technology of the distant future.

     Wherever we are, it seems to be chill, dark, and sterile.  Electronic
     machinery chuckles softly to itself.

     Abruptly we hear a BEEPING SIGNAL, and the machinery begins to awaken.
     Circuits close, lights blink on.

     CAMERA ANGLES GRADUALLY WIDEN, revealing more and more of the
     machinery, banks of panels, fluttering gauges, until we reveal:

     INTERIOR - HYPERSLEEP VAULT

     A stainless steel room with no windows, the walls packed with
     instrumentation.  The lights are dim and the air is frigid.

     Occupying most of the floor space are rows of horizontal FREEZER
     COMPARTMENTS, looking for all the world like meat lockers.

     FOOM!  FOOM!  FOOM!  With explosions of escaping gas, the lids on the
     freezers pop open.

     Slowly, groggily, six nude men sit up.

                              ROBY
               Oh... God... am I cold... 

                              BROUSSARD
               Is that you, Roby?

                              ROBY
               I feel like shit... 

                              BROUSSARD
               Yeah, it's you all right.

     Now they are yawning, stretching, and shivering.

                              FAUST
                    (groans)
               Ohh... I must be alive, I feel dead.

                              BROUSSARD
               You look dead.

                              MELKONIS
               The vampires rise from their graves.

     This draws a few woozy chuckles.

                              BROUSSARD
                    (shakes his fist in the
                     air triumphantly)
               We made it!

                              HUNTER
                    (not fully awake)
               Is it over?

                              STANDARD
               It's over, Hunter.

                              HUNTER
                    (yawning)
               Boy, that's terrific.

                              STANDARD
                    (looking around with a grin)
               Well, how does it feel to be rich
               men?

                              FAUST
               Cold!

     This draws a LAUGH.

                              STANDARD
               Okay!  Everybody topside!  Let's get
               our pants on and get to our posts!

     The men begin to swing out of the freezers.

                              MELKONIS
               Somebody get the cat.

     Roby picks a limp cat out of a freezer.

Hill's Movie version (about 120 pages):
Code: 
                Science fiction plucks from within
                us our deepest fears and hopes then
                shows them to us in rough disguise:
                the monster and the rocket.
                                     W.H. Auden
              
                We live, as we dream -- alone.
                                    Joseph Conrad

        FADE IN

        SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE:

        INT. ENGINE ROOM

        Empty, cavernous.

        INT. ENGINE CUBICLE

        Circular, jammed with instruments.
        All of them idle.
        Console chairs for two.
        Empty.

        INT. OILY CORRIDOR - "C" LEVEL

        Long, dark.
        Empty.
        Turbos throbbing.
        No other movement.

        INT. CORRIDOR - "A" LEVEL

        Long, empty.

        INT. INFIRMARY - "A" LEVEL

        Distressed ivory walls.
        All instrumentation at rest.

        INT. CORRIDOR TO BRIDGE - "A" LEVEL

        Black, empty.

        INT. BRIDGE

        Vacant.
        Two space helmets resting on chairs.
        Electrical hum.
        Lights on the helmets begin to signal one another.
        Moments of silence.
        A yellow light goes on.
        Data mind bank in b.g.
        Electronic hum.
        A green light goes on in front of one helmet.
        Electronic pulsing sounds.
        A red light goes on in front of other helmet.
        An electronic conversation ensues.
        Reaches a crescendo.  
        Then silence.
        The lights go off, save the yellow.

        INT. CORRIDOR TO HYPERSLEEP VAULT
   
        Lights come on.
        Seven gowns hang from the curved wall.
        Vault door opens.

        INT. HYPERSLEEP VAULT

        Explosion of escaping gas.
        The lid on a freezer pops open.
        Slowly, groggily, KANE sits up.
        Pale.
        Kane rubs the sleep from his eyes.
        Stands.
        Looks around.
        Stretches.
        Looks at the other freezer compartments.
        Scratches.
        Moves off.

        INT. GALLEY

        Kane plugs in a Silex.
        Lights a cigarette.
        Coughs.
        Grinds some coffee beans.
        Runs some water through.

                                 KANE
                  Rise and shine, Lambert.
              
        INT. HYPERSLEEP VAULT

        Another lid pops open.
        A young woman sits up.

                                 LAMBERT
                  What time is it.

                                 KANE
                         (voice over)
                  What do you care.

        INT. GALLEY

        Pot now half-full.
        Kane watches it drip.
        Inhales the fragrance.

                                 KANE
                  Now Dallas and Ash.
                         (calls out)
                  Good morning Captain.

                                 DALLAS
                         (voice over)
                  Where's the coffee.

                                 KANE
                  Brewing.

        LAMBERT walks into the kitchen.
        Pours herself a cup.

        INT. HYPERSLEEP VAULT

        Two more lids pop open.
        A pair of men sit up.
        Look at each other.

        INT. GALLEY

        Kane enjoys a freshly-brewed cup.

                                 KANE
                  Ripley...

        Another moment.
        And then the sound of another lid opening.

                                 KANE
                  And if we have Parker, can
                  Brett be far behind.

        Lid opening sound.

                                 KANE
                  Right.

        INT. HYPERSLEEP VAULT

        DALLAS looks at his groggy circus.  
     
                                 DALLAS
                  One of you jokers get the cat.

        RIPLEY picks up a limp cat out of one of the compartments.
Even though Hill has stacked visual shots (a prerogative when your director/producer too), the trend towards more barebone scriptwriting is evident. "Alien" is classic horror. You can contrast the styles with that of James Cameron's "Aliens" (142 pages incidentally):

Code: 
FADE IN

SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE - SPACE 1

Silent and endless. The stars shine like the love of
God...cold and remote. Against them drifts a tiny chip
of technology.

CLOSER SHOT It is the NARCISSUS, lifeboat of the
ill-fated star-freighter Nostromo. Without interior
or running lights it seems devoid of life. The PING
of a RANGING RADAR grows louder, closer. A shadow
engulfs the Narcissus. Searchlights flash on, playing
over the tiny ship, as a MASSIVE DARK HULL descends
toward it.

INT. NARCISSUS 2

Dark and dormant as a crypt. The searchlights stream
in the dusty windows. Outside, massive metal forms can
BE SEEN descending around the shuttle. Like the tolling
of a bell, a BASSO PROFUNDO CLANG reverberates through
the hull.

CLOSE ON THE AIRLOCK DOOR Light glares as a cutting
torch bursts through the metal. Sparks shower into the
room.

A second torch cuts through. They move with machine
precision, cutting a rectangular path, converging. The
torches meet. Cut off. The door falls inward REVEALING
a bizarre multi-armed figure. A ROBOT WELDER.

FIGURES ENTER, backlit and ominous. THREE MEN in
bio-isolation suits, carrying lights and equipment. They
approach a sarcophaguslike HYPERSLEEP CAPSULE, f.g.

                               LEADER
                     (filtered)
               Internal pressure positive. Assume
               nominal hull integrity. Hypersleep
               capsules, style circa late twenties...

His gloved hand wipes at on opaque layer of dust on the
canopy.

ANGLE INSIDE CAPSULE as light stabs in where the dust is
wiped away, illuminating a WOMAN, her face in peaceful
repose.

WARRANT OFFICER RIPLEY, sole survivor of the Nostromo.
Nestled next to her is JONES, the ship's wayward cat.

                                LEADER
                         (voice over; filtered)
                Lights are green. She's alive.
                Well, there goes out salvage, guys.

DISSOLVE TO:

INT. HOSPITAL ROOM - TIGHT ON RIPLEY - GATEWAY STATION 3

She's lying in a bed, looking wan, as a female MED-TECH
raises the backrest. She is surrounded by arcane white
MEDICAL EQUIPMENT. The Med-Tech exudes practiced
cheeriness.

                                MED-TECH
                 Why don't I open the viewport?
                 Watch your eyes.

Harsh light floods in as a motorized shield slides into
the ceiling, REVEALING a breathtaking vista. Beyond the
sprawling complex of modular habitats, collectively
called GATEWAY STATION, is the curve of EARTH as seen
from high orbit. Blue and serene.

                                MED-TECH
                 And how are we today?

                                RIPLEY
                         (weakly)
                Terrible.

                                MED-TECH
                Just terrible? That's better
                than yesterday at least.

                                RIPLEY
                How long have I been on
                Gateway station?

                                MED-TECH
                Just a couple of days. Do you
                feel up to a visitor?

Ripley shrugs, not caring. The door opens and a MAN
enters, although Ripley sees only what he is carrying.
A familiar large, orange TOMCAT.

                                RIPLEY
                Jones!

She grabs the cat like a life preserver.

                                RIPLEY
                        (cooing baby-cat talk)
                Come here Jonesy you ugly old
                moose...you ugly thing.

Jones patiently endures Ripley's embarrassing display,
seeming none the worse for wear. The visitor sits
beside the bed and Ripley finally notices him. He is
thirtyish and handsome, in a suit that looks executive
or legal, the tie loosened with studied casualness. A
smile referred to as "winning."
The above is not the final draft but gives a flavor of how styles change while remaining the same. Cameron is a bit more wordy and breaks the rules. He uses all caps to highlight effects or props is useful for budgeting and planning. Camera angles in sluglines(!) and descriptions would be right out for most spec writers. Given he's also looking to direct this, he has a bit more freedom. However, if you're simply writing on spec, it's best to avoid that keep to standard pratice. There are no firm, fast rules once you're established. Until then, use caps sparingly and keep description more relevant to the scene. Intense horror doesn't require excessively long scripts.
 
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Excellent examples and points, FSF!


And for further edification of budding screenplay perverts...
Dan O'Bannon's 1976 version: http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/alien_early.html
Walter Hill and David Giler's 1978 version: http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/alien_shooting.html



I enjoy not only watching honest remakes from generation to generation (as opposed to shot-for-shot Americanization of foreign films) to see how different screenwriters and directors can put a new, screwy spin on the same source material but also to watch the writer/director/actor/producer/editor commentary to see how the theatrically released film differs even from the "locked" studio approved version - ahem, revision color codes: http://support.finaldraft.com/article.aspx?cid=1001&aid=884
(Writers - be flexible. ;))

But it is especially enjoyable to see concrete evidence of how different story writer/screenwriters, teams in both these cases, will freely change character names & demeanors, setting environments, actions, and dialog to communicate essentially the same scene.

Dan O'Bannon - Broussard with "face hugger" in infirmary after failed attempt to remove it:
Code: 
INTERIOR - INFIRMARY

     They all come into the room (Roby carrying the partially melted pen).
     Broussard is still motionless on the bunk, with the thing on his face.

                              ROBY
               Did it get on him?

     Standard approaches and peers at Broussard's head.

                              STANDARD
               No, thank God... just missed him.

                              MELKONIS
               Is it still dripping?

                              STANDARD
                    (examining it)
               It appears to have healed itself.

                              HUNTER
               It makes me sick to see him like
               that.

                              MELKONIS
               Isn't there some way we can get it
               off him?

                              STANDARD
               I don't see how.  But let's do what
               we can for him.

     Standard presses a button, and Broussard slides back into the
     diagnostic coffin.  He presses more buttons, and the displays light up
     again, showing different parts of Broussard's body.

                              STANDARD (CONT'D)
               I think we'd better get some
               intravenous feeding started.  God
               knows what that thing is leaching
               out of him.

     Standard operates some controls, and the machine begins to invade
     Broussard's body, sliding needles into him.

                              ROBY
                    (studying the screens)
               Look there, what's that stain on his
               lungs?

     The X-ray reveals a spreading dark blot in the vicinity of Broussard's
     chest.  In the center, the stain is completely opaque.

                              MELKONIS
               It appears to be a heavy fluid of
               some sort... it blocks the X-rays... 

                              ROBY
               That tube must be depositing it in
               him.

                              MELKONIS
               Could be some kind of venom, or
               poison... 

                              HUNTER
               This is horrible.

                              ROBY
               Hey!  what about the film?

                              STANDARD
               What film?

                              ROBY
               Broussard had film in his datastick,
               didn't he?  We can see what happened
               to him.


Walter Hill and David Giler's version - Kane with "face hugger" in infirmary after failed attempt to remove it:
Name changes: Broussard --> Kane, Standard --> Ash, Roby --> Ripley
Additionally, roles and lines have been mish-mashed.​

Code: 
INT. INFIRMARY

        They return.
        Kane still motionless on the bunk.
        The Alien remains secured to his face.
        Wound completely healed over.

                                 PARKER
                  Any of the acid get on him.

        Dallas approaches, peers at Kane's head.

                                 DALLAS
                  Doesn't look like it.

                                 BRETT
                  Is it still dripping that crap.

                                 ASH
                  Healed over.

                                 LAMBERT
                  There must be some way we can get
                  it off.

        And look at Dallas.

                                 ASH
                  I don't think you ought to try
                  again.  It didn't work out too well
                  last time.

        Dallas gives him a look in return.
        Ripley presses a button.
        Kane slides back into the diagnostic coffin.
        More buttons pressed.
        Display lights up again, showing the different parts of
        Kane's body.

                                 ASH
                  I better get some intravenous
                  feeding started.  So far I can't
                  tell what the Alien has absorbed
                  from his system.

        The machine begins to process Kane's body.

                                 RIPLEY
                  What's the stain on his lungs.

        The X-ray reveals a spreading dark blot in the chest cavity.
        At the center, the stain is completely opaque.

                                 ASH
                  Whatever it is, it's blocking
                  the X-ray.

        A long moment.
        The stain spreads.

                                 BRETT
                  What happens now.

        Ash sets aside his partially melted pen.
        Looks at Dallas.

                                 DALLAS
                  You go back to work.


How it got shot - and then deleted from release:
Note Roby/Ripley's initial lines in the scene have been given to Parker.​

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw2BhcXn9ac

Interesting.
 
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"DAVID
looks down at the hole, surprised.

A TWISTING BULLET
suddenly gets stuck in his forehead and he goes down flat as a line of blood flows on his face."

This sounds more like a shooting script or something written way after the spec script. In a spec script, just write something like this as:

"David looks down the hole, and is suddenly stabbed in the head, and falls back."

No need to put a different heading names or for weapons that are used in an action scene.

Plus if a script were 240 pages, I would assume the movie is way too long for a beginner writer, or filmmaker, and therefore would not be a success since most marketers only want short movies from newcomers. I would immediately think that it was too long for success, and not read it.
 
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Well. Yes. It's written like a shooting script, however I have too many offers right now. Most of them come from managers but some are also coming from production companies. What would you suggest? Negotiate with the companies myself or trust a managment company to negotiate for me instead?
 
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