Scene and Shot on the Film Slate

I

iellioz632

Scenes comprise several shots usually. Therefore why on the film slate (clapperboard) is there an area to write the scene number and not the shot number? There is an area to write the "take number" because a shot might have several takes, therefore I am not sure why "scene number" is on the clapperboard and not the "shot number".

The above is further confused by the fact that most films have a shot list, therefore one would believe each of those shots to have a shot number, which should go on the film slate, but it is not.

Did filmmakers use "scene number" historically but in actual fact was referring to the shot number and then that concept/layout of the film slate just got adopted as a standard?

Therefore, is it correct to assume that when one sees "scene number" on a clapperboard, one should accept that the scene number on the board is in actual fact referring to the shot number?

Every clapperboard (film slate) that I have seen has Scene Number. I have never seen a film slate that has the Shot Number.
 
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Yep.

It'll depend on how the naming convention is sorted for your production. There tend to be accepted practices, but they can change.

A lot of productions start with the number and add the letters as you go (like 1, 1A, 1B, 1C so 1A is Scene 1, Coverage Shot 2), others start with 1A and then go 1B, 1C and so on. I personally prefer starting at 1A. It just feels clearer to me.

I have seen others insist on it being: Scene 1, Shot 1, Take 1 and so on. It's not that important how its done, so long as everyone knows what is going on and everyone is on the same page.

Clear as water or clear as mud?
 
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Depends where you're from.

Generally, the American way is to have the scene number, and append letters for the shots.

I.e. Scene 24 will be

24A
24B
24C

The shots are tied to 'shoot day shots' rather than shot list shots.

In Australia, it's more common to split the box into a Scene/Take box, using a sharpie or thin black tape to put a line in. Other times, you could simply use a slash.

So it looks more like this:

24 | 1
24 | 2
24 | 3
24 | 4

The shots will still relate to 'shoot day shots' though, not the shot list.
 
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iellioz632 said:
Scenes comprise several shots usually. Therefore why on the film slate (clapperboard) is there an area to write the scene number and not the shot number? There is an area to write the "take number" because a shot might have several takes, therefore I am not sure why "scene number" is on the clapperboard and not the "shot number".
Click to expand...

Your question has been covered well; scene/shot number go in the
"SCENE" box. How you set up the shot - either numbers (24-1 or
24a) depends on what your team wants. A clear marked script is very
important for the editor. So during preproduction it's essential to work
with the editor, camera assistant and scripty to decide exactly how the
script and slate will be marked.
 
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As long as everyone's on the same page, and are happy with it (and it's realtively easy to understand!) it doesn't really matter which method you use. And I've used both here, despite the fact that it's much more common to use the 24 | 1 method here.
 
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All very interesting feedback folks; thank you.

You refer to the shots relating to 'shoot day shoots' and not the shot list. What if, however, the shot list was arranged like the shoot day shoots - i.e. something like the below:

1A
1B
1C
1D

2A
2B
2C
2D
2E

3A
3B
3C

4A
4B
4C
4D

ETC.
 
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Depends on how you and your team want to run it.

You can name/number your shots how yuou like on your shot list. I find that ensuring the slate number reflects exactly what's on a shot list can be unnecessarily time consuming (i.e. the 2nd AC has to keep asking what shot we're on, what number to use etc.), and what happens when you put in an extra shot? How do you number it?

My personal preference is to simply go up in sequential order based on the order we shoot. A good scripty will keep track of what shots cover what anyway.

Most shoots I work on number this way, though a very select few have had to ensure that the slate accurately reflects the shot list...

The other thing is, each time we move the camera or create a new shot, the 2ndAC can just increment the numbering system. If they forget to check in, or are told the wrong thing to write, it makes the entire system useless for identification anyway.
 
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Nice concept.

Rather than starting a separate thread, I have two questions below:

1. Do you think there are popular feature films that, before shooting of the film, included in the shot list every single shot that appeared in the final film? I mean all the main shots and coverage shots, that appeared in the final film, were accounted for in the detailed shot list during pre-production before any shooting started.

2. While it may be a fact that production of the film may lead to more or less shots going into the final film, do you think there are famous film directors that create a shot list with the DoC that contains every single shot for all the coverage that will go in the final film or do they create a basic play by ear shot list that they will build on during shooting?
 
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Do you think there are popular feature films that, before shooting of the film, included in the shot list every single shot that appeared in the final film?
Click to expand...

Filmmaking can be chaotic. Plans change. Locations can change. Alterations need to happen if circumstance changes.

There are other reasons for change. When you get there, you find a better solution. A better shot list. What works better.

Your shot list is just a plan. Plans can and often do change.
 
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Totally understandable point you make about change and the inevitability of such.

However, do you think there are filmmakers in mainstream professional industry that did actually create a shot list for every shot they 'envisioned' the film to have, before the shooting started?
 
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Sweetie said:
It's hard to list a shot you don't envision. Your question may have been the result of poor wording on your part?
Click to expand...

No; understanding is key here - it was a simple question. Since it seems complex, I will go ahead and answer this then.

Yes, there are some who create a shot list for every shot they envision. There are some who don't because they lack the hindsight to envision to great heights. Filmmaking is about planning. Planning is wisdom. There are storyboards for example. Ridley Scott swears by storyboards and does his own boards. Does he storyboard every frame - hell no. Only in scenes that really need clarifying in detail, he will throw in some detailed frame by frame work to paint his picture fully to cast and crew.

A caveat here is even though all the shot list envisioned were filmed, some shots could be deleted in the cutting room.

We watch movies, and we watch movies. Therefore, we should have an idea of shots that we envision for our film. If a person making films does not have an idea what one wants the movie to look like in the end, then that person is in the wrong profession! One scouts locations, one has plans to a set. Therefore, it is not hard as you say, to list a shot that can be envisioned. Now, if one is creating a shot list without having seen the studio set or live location, then I would agree with you that it could be difficult.

The wise filmmaker will (after seeing the filming locations/sets) create a shot list for every shot that the film is envisioned to have.

The wiser filmmaker will have a PLAN in the first place because planning is wisdom.

Now that wasn't hard, was it?

:)
 
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Where are you at with asking your questions? In this post you're coming across as a condescending know-it-all when in another thread you're asking questions like what you'd expect from a filmmaker who lacks on-set experience, like how to mark a slate.

Are you trying to learn or are you trying to work out the holes in your thinking/process in order to improve, or are you trying to convince others that you know what you're doing?

Now that wasn't hard, was it?
Click to expand...

If you felt you knew the answer, which in my opinion is only a partial answer, why waste our time?
 
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Sweetie said:
Where are you at with asking your questions? In this post you're coming across as a condescending know-it-all when in another thread you're asking questions like what you'd expect from a filmmaker who lacks on-set experience, like how to mark a slate.

Are you trying to learn or are you trying to work out the holes in your thinking/process in order to improve, or are you trying to convince others that you know what you're doing?



If you felt you knew the answer, which in my opinion is only a partial answer, why waste our time?
Click to expand...

Sweetie, Sweetie, Sweetie - just relax dear fellow poster. Apologies if you read this the wrong way.

Though I believe a true know-it-all does not exist on earth, I am far from being one. Maybe the questions in my post is from an industry professional who just wants to gauge the calibre of feedback/industry know-how on this forum.

Anyway, no one is obligated to post in any of these threads, but your previous input has been appreciated nevertheless.

Again, apologies if you read this the wrong way Sweetie.

Peace.
 
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