Recording dialogue outdoors.

H

harmonica44

Outdoors, it is hard for me to record the dialogue in a way that makes the characters sound like they are further away, like in a mastershot.

Indoors, in a mastershot, as long as you have the mic a little higher than the actors, compared to a close up, you will get that further away sound, and it matches the distance of the characters in a mastershot.

But outdoors, if I have the mic five or six feet away in a master, it still sounds like they are right there in an extreme close up. I have the NTG-3 mic and the FR2LE recorder.

Does anyone know how to not make actors sound so close up, outdoors?

Thanks for the advice.
 
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Have you tried walking into the next paddock and tried recording the audio from there. I'm sure it'll sound like you're a lot further away. Have you tried wrapping your actors in blankets? I found if you wrap the actors in blankets, you get a further away sounding dialogue. Alternatively, you could get into a helicopter and once you've achieved the appropriate height, start recording. Let us know how it goes ;)

I just don't understand why you're asking how to do post sound during production sound recording. Capture clean dialogue audio during production. Don't get tricky. Get as close as you can to capture the cleanest sound possible.

Apply your filters in post.
 
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Sweetie said:
I just don't understand why you're asking how to do post sound during production sound recording. Capture clean dialogue audio during production. Don't get tricky. Get as close as you can to capture the cleanest sound possible.
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knightly said:
Record them normally... add distance through volume, EQ, and reverb... adding the environmental noise will help with the ILLUSION as well.
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Ya'll have learned your lessons well.
 
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Well I can never get the EQ, reverb and all that to sound right. It just sounds kind of synthetic at the end. Kind of like how a lot of movies prefer to hire orchestras with real instruments, rather than trying to use synthesizers to mimic the instrument sounds in post. The real thing just sounds more convincing.

I thought I would just do it the old fashion way and get the sound I want on set. I know it's not what most people do, but I figure if something does not work for you, find a way that does on your budget. Even Roger Deakins for example, gets the look he wants on set, instead of shooting flat, and changing it later. Is it so against the rules, to get what you want on set, so you don't paint yourself into a corner, by not being able to get what you want in post, when it's too late?
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well I can never get the EQ, reverb and all that to sound right. It just sounds kind of synthetic at the end. Kind of like how a lot of movies prefer to hire orchestras with real instruments, rather than trying to use synthesizers to mimic the instrument sounds in post. The real thing just sounds more convincing.
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First off, rarely do people ever record audio with reverb. You want dry, clean audio. Reverb and such is done in post. If you are not getting what you want, then either A) send it to audio post people or B) Learn more and put more effort into post audio manipulation and cleanup. Sorry if there's any terminology errors, Alcove. :blush:

I thought I would just do it the old fashion way and get the sound I want on set. I know it's not what most people do, but I figure if something does not work for you, find a way that does on your budget. Even Roger Deakins for example, gets the look he wants on set, instead of shooting flat, and changing it later. Is it so against the rules, to get what you want on set, so you don't paint yourself into a corner, by not being able to get what you want in post, when it's too late?
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First off, what experience and budget does Roger Deakins have, and what experience and budget do you have. Do you have that skill and gear? Do you have those people? Have YOU worked on as many projects as him? How much cinematography experience do you have?

Film is the art of storytelling. It is a balance of business and art. You (should) want to use the available tools you have to elevate and assist your story. There is no best way. There is no answer.

The problem with most of your questions (aside from the mass quantity of them) is that like others have stated, it's like asking how long a piece of string is. There is no straight answer we can give you.

Do what is best for your film. Do what you think is best based upon the knowledge you currently have.

Now go make a movie :)
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well I can never get the EQ, reverb and all that to sound right. It just sounds kind of synthetic at the end.
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Then you are doing it wrong. That's no surprise. What you do is keep on tweaking until you get it right. And you may want to invest in the proper tools - a treated room, some high quality speakers, an IR reverb like Altiverb, etc.

And as I have mention to you specifically and quite frequently, you may want to take one of your projects to a professional audio post facility and sit there for hour after endless hour listening to and watching what a professional does and how s/he does it. You got plenty of - perhaps too much - book learning and forum information without a real clue as to how to actually applies in the real world.

Of course, it is possible that you just don't have any "ears." That's okay, I don't have the "eye" to be a visuals type.

ChimpPhobiaFilms said:
Learn more and put more effort into post audio manipulation and cleanup. Sorry if there's any terminology errors, Alcove.
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Instead of manipulation we use the term processing.
 
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I'm not comparing myself to the great Roger Deakins, I just like his philosophy of getting it right to begin with. Well I guess I just really feel like getting things right on set, rather than doing it in post. I mean that's like lighting a movie really soft, and then deciding in post you want a film noir look, and trying to add that in after, rather than doing it on set. But that's just the way I look at it.

I can keep trying do fiddle with it in post, I just don't see what's with all the extra work. I know it gives you more options like if you want to use dialogue from a mastershot, on a close up, but I figure if a director can keep his video mastershots and close ups seperate, then he could be able to keep his audio mastershots and close ups separate too. But I will keep trying to fiddle with Adobe Audition and get these reverbs right.
 
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My brain hurts. So much. So, so, so much.

People shoot films on set. They try to get a specific look. In post, they refine those shots, and/or try to achieve a look that either looks better when done in post or a look that couldn't be done on set.

You record clean audio, and process/refine it in post so that there is a continuity within scenes, the audio sounds like it is there, it is at a proper volume, and/or has some effect or filter to manipulate the audience's emotions to make the whole movie experience more powerful, interesting, and entertaining for the viewers.

Audio is not something to tinker and play around with on set. That is saved for post. If you really are serious about making a high quality short film, consider getting some professional audio post people on the job.
 
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I am trying but there are no pro audio people where I live. I live in a city of 300,000 but everyone who is wanting to make films has taken the cinematography or visual FX route. I am still looking though and won't quit, and would love to find someone.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I'm not comparing myself to the great Roger Deakins, I just like his philosophy of getting it right to begin with. Well I guess I just really feel like getting things right on set, rather than doing it in post. I mean that's like lighting a movie really soft, and then deciding in post you want a film noir look, and trying to add that in after, rather than doing it on set. But that's just the way I look at it.
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It's not like that at all. It's more like shooting all your shots overcast and then the last shot of the day the sun comes out so you grade it to look more overcast to match.
 
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Then you spend the fooking money and go someplace that does have the facilities and the personnel. Calgary is, what, 500km away? And Vancouver (Hollywood North) is less than 1,000km away.

BTW, you said there as NOTHING film related in Saskatchewan, but you managed to (eventually) find some work and others into film. If you look hard enough I'm sure that there's an audio post facility closer than Calgary or Vancouver.
 
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Okay thanks. I tried doing it before with my first short film. You know how it had terrible sound? I hired a "pro", who didn't do well at all, then another who also didn't do well. But if I hire out of town, I will make sure to only hire if I can work with them in the same room. No more leaving them on their own, as the product will could come back crappy.

But I will definitely put an add out for someone I can work with, in person, for my next hopeful short. What I meant was that so far I have not been able to find any filmmakers where I live that have a specialized area, they can really help on. Everyone is just sort of jack of all trades, master of none, at best.
 
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H44, I found a behind the scenes from the development of one of your movies on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFwOtr_vuVg

and I hope this brings this thread to a close.
 
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